HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

Comments: 0

Latest topics
» For sale $150 Griffin for LS1 LS Radiator swap
Today at 12:11 pm by Red944ls1

» Rebuilt engine threw three rods
Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:45 pm by jpkinerk

» 1984 Gen IV 5.3 Swap
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:54 am by superman22x

» Aluminum 5.3 swap
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:59 pm by turbobob924

» Power and Torque figures
Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:27 am by Fubar

» Aftermaket Seat Options
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:04 am by Jchard944

» 83' Porsche 944 LM7 Build
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:47 pm by Jchard944

» 948 Badges - Just in time for Christmas
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:59 pm by Admin

» Atlanta area cars and shops
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:49 am by Bmillar

» New convert under way
Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:34 pm by kevin924kevin

December 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031

Calendar Calendar

Log in

I forgot my password


LS430 Big Brake Swap

Page 3 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:29 pm

It looks like the S2 mounting is going to be the 76mm / 3.0", similar to the Late Turbo. I meant to say S2 M030 in the previous post...

Yea, OOPS. (I'm not perfect, just damned close...)

Razz

.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:12 am

They are on, and bled (best as I can tell). Has anyone noticed a slightly softer pedal, or am I needed to bleed them more. I used a Motive power bleeder and had my wife pump the pedal.
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:34 am

What MC are you using? (944 manual, Turbo, Wilwood...?)
affraid

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:10 pm

Using Porsche Master with BMW hydroboost.
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:27 pm

23.81mm ~ 15/16" bore.

Hmmm. Not claiming to be an expert in fluid dynamics, but from research thus far, 15/16" bore with the LS430 calipers may be near the upper limit (MC size). 5/8" - 7/10" bore should be great on the manual system using dual MCs...15/16" would be better suited to the rear circuit. The hydroboost will seem to mask MC sizing issues, but you will "feel" it in the pedal.

Even so, that '83 should outbrake most things it outruns...Cool

How does it stop? Any rear lockup under hard braking?

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:26 am

gt1scca wrote:23.81mm ~ 15/16" bore.

Hmmm. Not claiming to be an expert in fluid dynamics, but from research thus far, 15/16" bore with the LS430 calipers may be near the upper limit (MC size). 5/8" - 7/10" bore should be great on the manual system using dual MCs...15/16" would be better suited to the rear circuit. The hydroboost will seem to mask MC sizing issues, but you will "feel" it in the pedal.

Even so, that '83 should outbrake most things it outruns...Cool

How does it stop? Any rear lockup under hard braking?

No, fronts do though, just clamps the 235's to a dead stop.
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:41 am

Dawgz83948 wrote:No, fronts do though, just clamps the 235's to a dead stop.
Then what's the problem? Razz

The LS430 has more piston volume, R1 rotor=more swept area...bla, bla, bla. You may have biased your rear brakes into "sleepyville"...

23mm MC has a .75" rear bore...manual setup with Turbo fronts on rear ~ 15/16" - 1" bore...(again, "boosted" may compensate for sizing diff., although rear bore is probably close, depending on rear components...)

Rear prop. valve? (944, 944T / S2 ?) Switching to the 15/8 valve may help.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:33 am

gt1scca wrote:
Dawgz83948 wrote:No, fronts do though, just clamps the 235's to a dead stop.
Then what's the problem? Razz

The LS430 has more piston volume, R1 rotor=more swept area...bla, bla, bla. You may have biased your rear brakes into "sleepyville"...

23mm MC has a .75" rear bore...manual setup with Turbo fronts on rear ~ 15/16" - 1" bore...(again, "boosted" may compensate for sizing diff., although rear bore is probably close, depending on rear components...)

Rear prop. valve? (944, 944T / S2 ?) Switching to the 15/8 valve may help.

I guess the big issue for me is that the pedal travel is rather far (3/4 of the way down) which makes me uneasy. I'm going to drive it around a bit and see if I get used to it. What a Face
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:40 pm

I think I figured it out, in my tweaking of the hydroboost the push rod in the booster going into the master was "trimmed". I welded a tip back on it to make the puhrod a little longer and I have a much higher pedal. Anyways, I hate doing anything brake related on this car, it burns off tranny fluid and/or brake fluid forever.
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:16 pm

Sweatin' me, dude... Razz

Basically, not enough stroke @ the MC = not enough fluid movement / pressure, same as wrong size MC. I learn something new daily...

Glad you got it. Awesome.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:08 pm

Here's something else I learned...

When sizing master cylinders for the Tilton dual MC setup, pedal ratio is a major part of the equation. I had thought the 944 stock ratio was 5:1...until I got the dims from an actual pedal.

Here's the results...



The stock MC pushrod location = 4.25:1 ratio.
The .75" higher modified location (used in the booster delete / single manual MC setup) = 6:1 ratio.

(The MC pushrod mounting point would have to be raised ~1.1" to achieve a 7.6:1 ratio...)

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Recalc

Post  xschop on Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:00 am

Hey Greg, So if the Pedal ratio is 4.25:1 then should BOTH MC's be recalc'd for a larger Diameter since there will be less pedal travel (Lexus fronts and rear)?????
What is a bonus about the Dual MC housing is the fact that it has the heim-joint pushrod so drilling the pedal for a different ratio won't cause binding worries.
Also the "Z" measurement taken should be exactly in the middle of the pedal
avatar
xschop

Posts : 2710
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:43 am

Yes...correct...and, it was.

I'll call Mike @ Tilton shortly, for sizing with the stock (4.25:1) and relocated (6:1) ratios. My last data submission was with the 6:1 ratio...

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  coctostan on Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:08 pm

gt1scca wrote:Yes...correct...and, it was.

I'll call Mike @ Tilton shortly, for sizing with the stock (4.25:1) and relocated (6:1) ratios. My last data submission was with the 6:1 ratio...

Are you proposing the option of a manual setup with the 4.25:1 pedal ratio? If so, that will require some very significant pedal force with a car this heavy. Most passenger cars give an effective boost (pedal ratio + booster ratio) in the 6:1 range. I don't think there is any use trying to get the 4.25:1 ratio to work. Maybe Tilton will have some insight on this.

coctostan

Posts : 25
Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:04 pm

4.25:1 Ratio:
FRONT MC = 5/8"
REAR MC = 15/16"
Estimated pedal pressure = 150 lbs.

6:1 Ratio:
FRONT MC = 7/10"
REAR MC = 1.0"
Estimated pedal pressure = 80-90 lbs.

Using the stock MC pushrod location is possible, but is not advisable...Also, the 4.25:1 ratio will exert significantly greater stress on the firewall.

*The 6:1 ratio is achieved by moving the MC pushrod mounting up the pedal 3/4"...

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  coctostan on Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:10 pm

Yeah, 150lbs of pressure would get old fast. I think lots of people complain about manual brakes because they aren't properly setup. If we have adequate clamping force, appropriately sized MCs and enough pedal leverage we should have a nice setup.

coctostan

Posts : 25
Join date : 2009-06-09

Back to top Go down

ratio

Post  xschop on Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:57 pm

It is actually better that the pushrod be moved up 3/4" to 1" because this will give even more clearance from the valve cover and now the 2312 modified header.....
avatar
xschop

Posts : 2710
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:52 pm

For those of you willing to "guinea pig" the +1.1" MC pushrod relocation mod...

7.6:1 Ratio:
FRONT MC = 5/8"
REAR MC = 15/16"
Estimated pedal pressure = 80-90 lbs.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:01 pm

Hey guyz I finished and want to post a pic. I left the water shield on the rear of the rotor. Seemed to fit fine, just had to cut a bit.

avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:52 pm

gt1scca wrote:Tim, is your car down? If not, send me some dims... Razz

Gonna bring it to work and mic it out as well as some pics to post. I also have the bearing P/N's used in it.
avatar
Dawgz83948

Posts : 601
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  gt1scca on Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:37 pm

Dawgz83948 wrote:Gonna bring it to work and mic it out as well as some pics to post. I also have the bearing P/N's used in it.
Awesome.
Wheels / brakes look great!

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 49
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

M030 UPDATE

Post  xschop on Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:43 pm

I finally have a set of Turbo S spindles in hand. RADIAL MOUNT TABS
Looks like a 77mm offset rotor (late Turbo) and the LS 430 4-pots with the dowel pins shaved will fit the M030 spindles Very Happy
The real quest would be to find a 77mm offset rotor with 315-330mm Diameter, 28 or 32mm Rotor sweep width.
So basically any Late spindle (non M030) with the LS430 calipers and Boxster S rotors trumps the M030 set-up IMO.



Copied from PP..... Looks like a 965 rotor would do the trick.......

*****************Might be of use? upgraded my 968 to 993TT brakes.

DISCS for use with Big Red or Big Black type calipers (all 322mmx32mm)
965 (911-964 3.6 Turbo)
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-045-00
965-351-046-00

928 GTS
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01

993 Twin Turbo
2-piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat (separate disc and mounting ‘hat’)
993-351-045-10
993-351-046-10
discs are seldom used, 993RS cheaper

993RS
1 piece disc, cross drilled, 40mm top hat
993-351-045-00
993-351-046-00


DISCS for use with M030 (928 S4) calipers (all 304mm x 32mm)
968 M030
1-piece disc, cross drilled, 45mm top hat
965-351-041-01
965-351-042-01

928 S4
1-piece disc, NON cross drilled, 45mm top hat
928-351-045-01
928-351-046-01


Discs with a ‘top-hat’ (offset) dimension of 45mm will have an outer disc pad face in the same position as standard – the larger discs are thicker (32mm vs 28mm) therefore the inner pad face of the discs are 4mm further in (into the car). This will close the gap between the disc face and the track rod end – it has been suggested that heat build up from the disc can be a problem, but I have never heard of any actual experience of this.

Discs with a ‘top-hat’ dimension of 40mm will have an outer disc pad face 5mm further out than standard (also pushing the caliper further out by 5mm and closer to the spokes of your wheels). The inner pad face of the discs will be –1mm further out from standard (further out of the car) and hence remains virtually the same distance from your track rod end.

NOTE: the M030 spindle/hub assembly locates the disc approximately 3mm further out to compensate for the additional thickness of the discs from standard.


CALIPERS
Big Reds (993 Twin Turbo calipers)
993-351-425-10
993-351-426-10
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Leading, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes require swapping over for trailing mounting. Pad retention springs will be upside-down. Red in colour.

Big Blacks (928GTS calipers)
928-351-423-03
928-351-424-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour.

M030 calipers (928 S4 calipers) (also used on 944 S2 M030, 944 Turbo S)
928-351-421-03
928-351-422-03
36mm/44mm piston sizes
Trailing, radial mounting, bleeder screws & cross-over tubes in correct position. Pad retention springs in correct orientation. Black in colour. Note: depending what year car these are from, the piston seal/dust seal design can differ. The older design is less robust/efficient. The later design is the same as that used on the Big Reds/Big Blacks. For these you can either use the standard 968 M030 dross drilled discs or the 928 S4 NON cross drilled discs. Both are the same size and offset.************************************************************
avatar
xschop

Posts : 2710
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  968gene on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:42 pm

xschop wrote:I finally have a set of Turbo S spindles in hand...

Be gentle, I paid way too much for them. Shocked
avatar
968gene

Posts : 255
Join date : 2009-07-02

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Tetzuoe on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:16 am

thought he was talking about mine Laughing
I have an extra set now, they werent thaaat much.
avatar
Tetzuoe

Posts : 178
Join date : 2009-06-12
Age : 34
Location : Falls Church, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  968gene on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:51 am

Considering that NA spindles are $75 for a pair...
avatar
968gene

Posts : 255
Join date : 2009-07-02

Back to top Go down

Re: LS430 Big Brake Swap

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum