HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

Comments: 0

Latest topics
»  A/C questions
Yesterday at 8:08 pm by Arthropraxis

» New convert under way
Yesterday at 4:38 pm by chrenan

» Corvette C6 Z06 Brake Caliper Adapters
Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:08 pm by superman22x

» Cayenne Front and Rear Brakes on 944
Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:00 pm by superman22x

» Parting out 944 Turbo with LS1
Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:14 am by rfreundt

» 944 LS1 race car part out
Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:00 am by rfreundt

» Steering shaft short
Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:11 pm by racertomtom

» Steering rack clearance
Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:32 pm by Hotrodz of Dallas

» What Intake Elbow to Use ?
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:30 pm by remaxagent33

» weird vibration
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:44 pm by sharkey

September 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 

Calendar Calendar

Log in

I forgot my password


Engine Mounting

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Engine Mounting

Post  Luke714 on Sun May 02, 2010 10:34 am

Hi Guys,

I'm about to start fabricating the uprights and setback plates for the mounting of the LS1. I can do that without spending money while I save for the engine. There were some questions and clarifications I want to ask.

1. The thickness of the round plate on the uprights. In the heading it says .25" thick steel plate, but in the drawings the scale works out to exactly .125" thick. Since the measurements to the center of the drilled 1" round are taken from the top surface of the plate changing thicknesses between .25" and .125" would lower or raise the mount. Just not sure which it is, I would also like to have confirmation that the 4.87" measurement is indeed taken from the top surface of the round plate, not the bottom surface.

2. The drivers side is identical to the passengers side upright, right? Just mirror images?

3. After reading the thread about whether or not to use a solid rear mount where issues of forward/rear location of the entire drive-train were raised I want to make sure that I'll be OK using the uprights and setback plates shown in the manual and these motor mounts: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am also using a solid transaxle mount and a brace if that makes any difference.

4. I'm a little bit confused regarding the dimensions of the setback plates. Which holes are supposed to be tapped with M10x1.5? According to the drawing there are x2 that need to be tapped, that is, two holes. So the middle hole between the two tapped holes just needs to be drilled to .5625", along with every other hole on the plate? The reason I ask is that there is one hole unaccounted for, the .5625" says x4 and the M10x1.5 says x2 but there are 7 holes total. Also, what does the "TYP" on the drawing signify?

Sorry for all the questions Embarassed

Luke

Thanks,
Luke
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Porch on Sun May 02, 2010 11:25 am

I really think the mounts are something that you should wait until you have a motor sitting in the car to do, but that's just how i've always done it. Chances are pretty good that you'll end up doing it twice (because of a wrong angle) if you make them now...
avatar
Porch

Posts : 851
Join date : 2009-09-02
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 11:42 am

Luke,

The uprights and set-back plates have changed significantly since the First Edition of the Manual was printed. The set-back plates have been updated THIS WEEK to accommodate AC. Also, the passenger side upright relocates the motor mount 1.75" back for AC compressor clearance. The new passenger side set-back plate also reflects this. I will U/L the new drawings later today for everyone.

Do not go by the set-back plates shown in your Manual (First Edition)...
They will NOT work.

EDIT: As Porch said, unless you have a jig built already, the best way to build uprights is with the engine sitting in the car. The drawings will get you close, but ideally, you can make adjustments much easier while you're cutting and welding tubing. I figured this out the hard way myself...

Updates are coming,
Greg


Last edited by gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Upright info...)

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 12:06 pm

May as well just get it over with...
I have a busy day ahead of me.

944V8 LS Set-Back Plates, A/C friendly:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Luke714 on Sun May 02, 2010 1:21 pm

Thanks for the fast feedback!


I was planning to make a jig that matched the dimensions shown in the manual exactly, I'm confident enough to know I can make them come out pretty darn close. Since you are selling them with the kit I figured that it would be OK to make them ahead of time. I am not using AC, is that the only reason the old setback plates will not work? The old ones shown just look a lot easier to fabricate. Say I use the new drawings (which I will) will the old upright drawings I have work? If I remember correctly the manual says that the setback plates relocate the mounts by 1", the news one relocate by 1.75"? Therefore the old uprights probably won't work? Do you have new drawings of those or should I just move the mounting point back .75"?

I'm just trying to reproduce what would come with the kit. I have never mounted an LS1, I haven't even been able to take a close look at what the mounting points look like and I don't have feel for how they line up relative to the Porsche crossmember. Maybe on my second try or a remake of this current car I'll try and line things up my own way/ get rid of spacers and use a tubular crossmember. This time I just want to replicate what has been done with success even if it isn't the best possible solution. The setback plates, uprights, shorty motor mounts sold by greg, and spacers seem like the most common and there are drawings available.
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 1:47 pm

The uprights shown in the Manual will work with CarShop, Inc. set-back plates, and .50" crossmember spacers, but the AC compressor will hit the passenger side plate. No AC? No problemo. The same uprights will work with the new set-back plates posted IF you move the passenger side top tube back 1.75". This will mean a new (different) angle for the passenger side upright, but the height location of the top tube stays the same.

The latest LS Uprights move the top tube down 3/8", and will cut spacer thickness down to 1/4" or less. You can lower the uprights you are building also (from the drawing you have), but make sure you take into consideration the 15* angle of the crossmember / upright mounting points. In other words, if you shorten the uprights on the correct plane, spacers go on a diet. If you shorten them down the hypotenuse of the upright tube, you'll be S.O.L., and the top (motor mount) tube gets pulled away from the motor mount.

As far as the bottom plate goes...
I have been water-jetting 3/16" thick discs for the bottom plate, 3.0" outside diameter.
The drawing may spec 3.25", but the 3" dia. version works great.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Porch on Sun May 02, 2010 2:00 pm

Have you seen these?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Or 1" setback:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There are others like them on ebay. Seems like a pretty solid place to start, and the price is definitely right.
avatar
Porch

Posts : 851
Join date : 2009-09-02
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Luke714 on Sun May 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Thanks to everyone, once again. Thank you, Greg for all the excellent help. So you're basically saying that I can use what is shown in the manual if I do not want AC. The setback plates shown in the manual are the 1" setback units sold by CarShop or the ones posted by Porch (thanks those look good)? What is the answer on the threaded/drilled holes in the setback plate shown in the manual?

What changed that allowed a .25" spacer instead of a .5" spacer? If the top mounts are lowered .375" and the spacers are reduced to .25" then that means I have to make the uprights effectively .125" shorter? The height difference allows the engine to be mated with the torque tube/tranny without problems?

So the slight difference in thickness of the bottom plate doesn't really matter? The 1/16" difference in height between 3/16 or 1/4 isn't a big deal?
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 8:39 pm

[ sigh ] I knew this would bite me, so I don't mind clearing things up.

These are the CarShop, Inc. plates - used without AC:
(Another reason for redesigning the set-back plates is the fact that ONLY urethane mounts fit the CarShop, Inc plates. The new 944V8S plates allow the use of "stock" bonded rubber motor mounts, in addition to the urethane mounts.)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

These are the new 944V8S set-back plates - used with AC:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The "short" version shown in the First Edition will not work.
Nor will the eBay versions listed above, because they move the engine back too far.
The CarShop plates have been installed with 1/2" spacers, using the LT1 uprights, and the throttle body clears the hood, along with proper engine placement fore & aft, and the oil pan clears the crossmember.

Now...

With that said, the new uprights have been shortened 3/8" to reduce spacer thickness. Some cars may not require spacers at all with the shorter uprights. The height dimension you refer to, 4.87", is measured from the TOP of the base-plate, so thickness of the base-plate disc changing to 3/16" along with the 3/8" drop actually is the equivalent of lowering the top tube 7/16". A full 1/2" drop may cause interference at the PS rack, so 3/8" drop is spec'd.

The shortened uprights height dimension changes to 4.50" from the top of the base-plate disc.
This will slightly change the upright angle, and will drastically reduce the amount of spacer required, if any. Only move the passenger side top tube 1.75" rearward if you plan on using AC, and the relocated set-back plate.

[ Whew, I hope you got all that... ]

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Luke714 on Sun May 02, 2010 9:31 pm

you're epic Very Happy

OK.... I just want to make sure that I've got this right before I go and spend time fabricating.

Since the engine has effectively gotten 7/16" closer to the crossmember (if I shorten the uprights 3/8" and use 3/16" plate) then hypothetically to maintain the same height relative to the hood, spacers of only 1/16" would be required? That's why you said I might be able to eliminate them all together. I have already made 1/2" spacers, 1/4" spacers would help maintain good suspension geometry and overall be better, correct?

So this is what I'll do, tell me if any of my game-plan is incorrect:

1. Replicate the CarShop setback plates shown above, for no AC. I noticed that the new CarShop uprights shown in your last post call for .25" plate, not .5" plate, that does not affect the design of the uprights?

2. Build the uprights shown in my manual, however reduce the 4.87" dimension to 4.5". I realize the geometry problem where I cannot just shorten the pipe 3/8".

3. Use 3/16" bottom plate for the uprights instead of the called for 1/4" plate in my manual

4. Since I am not using AC I will leave all other dimensions shown for the uprights in my manual untouched.

5. Use the shorty urethane engine mounts you sell

6. Space the crossmember, Control arms and sway bar 1/4" to be safe. I'll just mill my current spacers down, but probably wait until I know this setup will work.

7. Cross fingers
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 9:57 pm

Yea, I hated writing and typing when I was 19.

LOL, "cross fingers"...
You kill me.

1. YES, .25" thick steel set-back plates are correct, and .50" thick plates will screw the pooch as far as uprights, mounts, and everything else goes. .25" steel, no thicker.

2. Yea, you got that one.

3. See #2. OR, if you want to effectively shorten the uprights 3/8" overall, use a .25" thick base.

4. Except the angles - these will change.

5. #2 again.

6. You can if you want, but I know it will work. The hard lines to the rack may have to be re-bent, however. I can't promise that won't be necessary.

7. ...Or your eyes, whatever works.
What a Face


Last edited by gt1scca on Sun May 02, 2010 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Luke714 on Sun May 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Yea, I hated writing and typing when I was 19.
huh??


Great, thanks. I'll figure all the geometry for the uprights, shouldn't be any problem at all. I guess I'll just see about the spacers when the time comes.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm glad we all lived through that one. Razz I appreciate all the dedicated help. My friends dad doesn't think I'll get this project done in less than three years, but he doesn't realize the kinda help I've been getting. He just tripled my resolve to make it happen by the middle of August when I get off an internship and would like to take this car for it's shakedown through the White Mountains. I hope it'll be able to play close to the level of the Lotus in my profile pic (which is his). Probably will never match it in the corners though.
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  xschop on Tue May 04, 2010 7:30 am

The 944-V8 is it's own enigma.The 3 isolator holes should sit below the parallel plane of the 4 block mounting holes....
Greg's drawing nailed it. The Carshop and Ebay plates would need to be put on a mill and slotted downwards at the 3 isolator points.
avatar
xschop

Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  Bluemach1 on Tue May 04, 2010 4:04 pm

Greg, does this mean that the set back plates I got from you in January are not going to work with the AC?

Bluemach1

Posts : 437
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Cameron Park, CA

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3378613

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine Mounting

Post  gt1scca on Tue May 04, 2010 6:23 pm

The passenger side will not.
Neither will the passenger side upright.
Driver's side is fine as is.

I'm making replacements currently - first new sets will be done this week.

gt1scca

Posts : 795
Join date : 2009-06-08
Age : 48
Location : Belton, SC

Back to top Go down

TUBING! Need some quick advice

Post  Luke714 on Wed May 19, 2010 3:55 pm

Hey,

I can't believe I did this, but when I went to pick up some tubing for the engine uprights from a local steel yard I didn't even measure it to make sure it was 1.5OD. I would've thought I'd notice the difference between 1.75 and 1.5, but apparently not.
Embarassed
I didn't actually notice until I had cut them into rough lengths. I can't make it back to the steel place for a while so I was wondering if there was a reason that some pipe with a OD of 1 5/8" wouldn't work? Is there any reason this would cause interference?

I'd like to save the time and money and use this if possible.

Thanks for any help,

Luke
avatar
Luke714

Posts : 434
Join date : 2009-12-30
Age : 27
Location : Maine

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum