HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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coil over setup

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coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:07 pm

Looking at possibly getting some all around coil-over package for my build. I was not sure the weights of the springs needed. Also was not sure if this is the best way to go?
http://www.paragon-products.com/Coil_Over_Kit_Koni_Cup_p/koni_cup_kit.htm

thanks
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Re: coil over setup

Post  Porch on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:18 pm

That's probably a pretty good setup for the money. You might also check out the Bilstein setup for a few bucks more.

Check with ground control too:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/category.php/CA=219

I run Koni's all around with 300# fronts and 28mm rear torsion bars (which is about equivalent to a 250# spring). It's very balanced and not too harsh for daily driving. Keep in mind that if you're going to do rear coilovers you have to take into consideration the spring + the torsion bar.

You can probably pick up a decent used setup for less, but it might turn into a headache. Or you can wait a few years and i'll sell you all my stuff when i move up to a KW v3 setup Very Happy
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:25 pm

lol. I was reading that you can do rear coil over and take out the torsion bar. Or you can run both depending on your driving feel.
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Re: coil over setup

Post  xschop on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:54 pm

I don't want to remove the factory torsion bars. So what spring# per side do I need to add to a coilover set-up if I build them myself? And what spring O.D. and I.D. do I go with? I read somewhere that the early cars have 14"-10" compression distance eye2eye, but wasn't sure if that included 85.5
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:17 pm

if your tracking the car 350 lbs to 450 lbs front springs are best . depending on what track i'm running at i will run 350 .400 or the 450 springs with shocks valved to match each spring rate . for street use only i would opt for a 250 or 300 lbs spring rate at most . you can remove the t-bar if you want to . there are allot of us the track only or cars that do . 2 of my track cars run no t-bars and 3 do with one of them that does also i use a coil over with it . now this will go to the post you asked about balancing your car . will you be using any kind of added downforce on the car ?? the more downforce the more you have to also increase your suspensions spring rate or you will start to run the car out of suspension travel as speeds increase . how much are you going to lower the car ? an inch to 1.5 inches at most works best for the 944 . with 1.25 being the best balance of keeping suspension travel and CG in balance . the car i run with the t-bar i use a 100 lbs or a 150 lbs spring on the coil over . that shock i had valved for a 125 lb spring rate . it does rebound the shock a little fast with the 150lbs springs . but its more that useable . for the street i would not want to go more than a 100 lbs spring 75 i would try 1st for street use . if you want to remove the t-bar you should change the lower shock mount with a bracket that will bolt to each side of the lower shock or you run a good chance of shearing the bolt . the cars we run with out the t-bars i have 650 700 and 750 lbs springs for . again i change them out from track to track and what ever the weather is we are running in and how much downforce we need at that time . also you need to think about is if tracking a car are the tires DOT R-tires or a full slick . more grip more G's . one more thing to think about is the profile of the tire . the tire also is part of the suspension . the lower the profile the tire has then the less spring rate you should run (kind of ) if your going to run a straight rate spring . say you have a 35 or 40 low profile tire running a full straight 100 lbs spring in the 1st 1/2" to 3/4" of suspension travel the car will tend to skate . were if you run a progressive rate spring (it gets stiffer as the spring compresses ) it will tend not to want to skate . and then how good of a driver are you ?? can you use all the car has to offer ? or could an other driver get in your car and turn a faster lap than you . i build allot of race cars for our customers that want to go right to the max with there suspension . that is not the best thing to do . you should build the suspension to your driving ability . if your only using say 2/3's of the suspension your car has then your not getting the most out of you or your car .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:32 pm

mostly a street car, maybe a few times on a small track nothing big. But alot of highway speeds and mountain road driving.

I have been researching some here and there. I am not quite sure what is the best for a street car. I would like good suspension for mountain corners and enough control for high speeds. So far as far as downforce, just the stock spoiler.

this is an area I have no true knowledge in so any help would be nice.
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:28 am

i would do a 300 lbs front and with the t-bar a 100 lbs rear . that way you would not have to build lower shock mounts in the rear .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 am

ok. That will give me a descent coil over all around? Do I need to measure the thickness of my torsion bar to figure that in? I figured if I can I would do it all since the car is not going to be driving anywhere, any time soon.
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Re: coil over setup

Post  xschop on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:25 am

OK. I put on 300# coilovers on the front as V8 swappers have suggested and I like what I built from scratch. I was never sure about what size to do the rears WITH the T-bars untouched (whatever size an 85.5 may be). I will proceed with #100 per side coils on the rears. Now I just need to know what the compressed and extended length of the coilover I2I should be for sure on the 85.5?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. I hate crap-shoots on stuff like this. I am a "do it once and do it right kinda guy" and this is the best info by far I've seen on the subject....
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Re: coil over setup

Post  docwyte on Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:02 am

I'm running 30mm solid torsion bars, works well. Up front I've converted the single adjustable koni's to doubles, have camber plates and am running 350lb HyperCo springs.

For swaybars I have the 968 M030's.

This setup is very neutral on my car, the ride is definitely stiffer than stock, but more than tolerable.

Rolls more than my friends 944S2 race car that's been converted to coilovers on all corners, but he's also running much stiffer springs than me.

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Re: coil over setup

Post  Porch on Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:24 am

I'm very happy with my 300#/28mm/968 M030 setup. I have heard mixed reviews on the 350#, some say it's too much, others are fine with it (i think it's just personal preference). Most that run 350# springs use a 29mm torsion bar (~300#), though. I realize you're talking coilovers, but just to give you a general idea of what people run....

Just to echo what Docwyte said above: there's still body roll, but it's a great compromise for a street car.
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:30 pm

understand, as fun as a super stiff car would be fun to drive on a smooth track, i would take a little body roll for a smoother ride setup. not looking to drive a cadilac. i want a stiffer than stock ride to be able to keep control of the power with out being sloppy.probrably doing so looks like any kit will do a 1" dropn[i]
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:10 pm

did you say you had a 86 NA 944 ? i deal allot with ground-control . if you tell them what springs you want they will match the shock valving to them . i was the one how gave them all the specs for the early 944 suspensions for the spec 944 class . it was 5 or 6 years ago when i got my 1st set from them for my 944 . i went to lime rock for a test and tune day and in big bend the lower part of the strut hit the control arm and the car would not turn . i went right off the track into the grass on the 1st hot lap . i got back on the track and on the 2nd hot lap the car did the same thing . not knowing what the hell was going on i put my arm out the window and came into the pits . with all the weight of the car on the ground nothing would hit but as the suspension would lift its in side front the strut would hit . any way . if its a 85 86 NA 944 i would go with 300 fronts and 100 rears . or if you want more street only 250 fronts and 75 rears .


Last edited by 962porsche on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: coil over setup

Post  Bluemach1 on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:19 pm

Ground Control is just minutes from my house.

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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3378613

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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:34 pm

86 Turbo
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:10 pm

i would do the 300's front and 75 rears if its not going to be an every day year round drive and if you like to drive the car hard when your wife is not in the passenger seat yelling at you to slow down . it will be good for drivers ed track days and spirited street driving . i think you did state you wanted to do some track days ? and you should ! you get an instructor ( i'm one ) and what we do is go thru turn by turn and show you how and what to do to get you up to a speed that you can feal comfortable with .then we work on your braking and car control and show people how to heal and toe the right way .but if you like to drive like an old lady 225's and 50's rear .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:42 pm

old lady my butt, When I have a option to shift gears, I put it there. I tend to do my way to town in my maxima running between 3000-5500 rpms, when my wife and son arent in the car. I like taking corners as fast as the car can handle without sliding or losing traction. I love corners and the power.

I emailed ground control since you guys recommend them so highly. I asked their opinions. I will probably need to weigh out the car before I get a finalized setup though, that way I know exactly what to shoot for as far as weight control. Since each of these conversions come out slightly different in the weight department.

As far as my driving, I am not building it to sit in one spot or travel on a trailer.


Last edited by cfgioja on Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:38 am

i didnt think you did . when a car is set up for racing you set it up with a thing called slip angle . that is with the hole car sliding in a trun ( NOT UNDERSTEERING OR OVER STEERING ) but a controled slid or slip . so sliding is not a bad thing . the 944 likes about a 10% slip when pushing the car hard .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  xschop on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:39 am

Daily driver where the morning traffic commute tops 120 on the 6 mile stretch from home to work.....If you only knew Twisted Evil

If I mod up an inexpensive shock, what shock damper rate would be best with the 100# springs?
Also monotube or twin tube shock type?
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Re: coil over setup

Post  xschop on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:56 am

With just the T-bars and new shocks in the back, the car is squatting a couple inches on hard launches. This is good on drag bikes, but I don't like too much in the ass end here as it does it at Hiway speed as well because of the V8 torque even in hi gear...... Looks like a scared dog.....

http://www.youtube.com/user/XSCHOP1#p/a/u/0/Wxu2zWFNNyM
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Re: coil over setup

Post  docwyte on Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:21 am

Hopefully Ground Control will get back to you.

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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:35 pm

i have had real good luck with ground-control and them working with me . so they should get right back to you . as for drag racing set ups i have no idea on that . i don't have any customers that do it and i don't want any . i only deal with rally and road racers . i do know you want rear weight transfer . but no set ups are the same as for road and rally racing . i would not use the 944 platform for drag racing .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:07 pm

what are the benefits of keeping the torsion bar? I know you need to idex this bar at times right? would it not be simpler to pull it out and install stiffer rear coils? I dont know what the purpose of it would serve?
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Re: coil over setup

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:41 pm

one of the good things about t-bars is that they are a progressive rate tipe of a spring . that is the more it twists the more force it gives trying to untwist . the bad is that they can't be ajusted . having the two is just fine . also a t-bar has a much longer life span than a coil spring . a t-bar should last about 20 to 25 years before it starts to lose its spring rate were a coil tipe spring will start to lose its spring rate at about 10 to 15 years . in a full race set up going with a adjustable coil is better becouse you can change out shocks and springs much faster and fine tune the car for the track and balance . when you only have a t-bar your kind of stuck with only being able to do the cars balance from the front suspension .and thats ok becouse once its set up thats the one and only time you will need to do it . if your not going to get a hole buntch of shocks and springs for the car then having the t-bar is more than ok . if you index the rear t-bar one spline to lower the rear end it should be about a 26 to 30 MM drop in ride hight for the rear . and thats just about were you want it for your ride hight . any more and you lose suspension travel ( to low is to slow ! ) .
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Re: coil over setup

Post  cfgioja on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:13 pm

Ground Control's 944 guy is out for a couple of days, I have to wait for him to return before I can get some good help. Oh well no big rush, winter is almost upon us.
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