HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

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Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  bigfeet on Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:58 pm

Hi all Very Happy Im looking to put a LS2 chevy engine into a non turbo 944. Now i wont be doing this myself but i will give my mate who is a mechanic and is into doing weird and wonderfull things to cars pirat
a hand to do it. Before i start im looking to get as much power as i can from the 6.0 V8 and i will be looking to supercharge it later on aswell.

Now im looking to put it into a non turbo model - will the gearbox, clutch, drivetrain all that sort of stuff be able to handle the power ( thr 400 hp from the engine no supercharger )?

How simple is the swap? Im not expecting it to be a 1 hour job but can i take the original engine out then the LS2 basically goes straight in its place ?

What parts are needed to make the swap work ( apart from the engine )

Anyone thats done the swap, what sort of 0-60 and quater mile times are you getting?

I do have a lot of questions and id be greatful if anyone could help me out Cool

Thanks

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Porch on Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:19 pm

Howdy!
Well, i'll be the first to say it. RTFM! lol!
The 944 swap manual that is. Get in touch with GT1SCCA if you're seriously considering the swap, he can sell you a manual that has all the answers in it.
Otherwise, use the search feature! All the answers are here in great detail. There really isn't anything that hasn't been covered plenty of times.

I will say, however, that the N/A transmission won't hold up to any LS motor, and even the Turbo transmission will break without modification behind a supercharged LS motor.

As for 0-60 and 1/4 mile times...you can forget about those! These cars just plain suck for drag racing, and if i ever get traction all the way from 0-60 without breaking something, i'll let you know on that.
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:20 pm

Porch wrote:Howdy!
Well, i'll be the first to say it. RTFM! lol!
The 944 swap manual that is. Get in touch with GT1SCCA if you're seriously considering the swap, he can sell you a manual that has all the answers in it.
Otherwise, use the search feature! All the answers are here in great detail. There really isn't anything that hasn't been covered plenty of times.

I will say, however, that the N/A transmission won't hold up to any LS motor, and even the Turbo transmission will break without modification behind a supercharged LS motor.

As for 0-60 and 1/4 mile times...you can forget about those! These cars just plain suck for drag racing, and if i ever get traction all the way from 0-60 without breaking something, i'll let you know on that.

Yes, my poor axles......
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  944v8inDFW on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:09 pm

I have pounded the $#** out of a late NA transaxle with well over 500 HP and have never broke one. Same with a turbo trans. Major things to keeping them alive a long time is is two fold. Good transmission and motor mounts and good lubrication. Without a good trans mount all 944 will death rattle the transmission, my contention is that’s what breaks most of them. The worn rubber mounts let them wind up under load then SNAP back in position like a rubber band.

The other underlying factors is good lubrication and a cooler, and starting with a transmission that is well within wear specs. If you start with junk you will end with a pile of junk on the tarmac.

It is very easy to add a cooler to one that doesn’t have it. The factory loop cooler aren’t bad but really don’t have the surface area and airflow needed. My personal rule of thumb is the trans cooler should be as big as the oil cooler.
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Admin on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:39 pm

I second the fact that the NA trans will not live well behind the LSx motor with any power adders. I broke 2 trannies within a matter of weeks, I have about 500 hp comping out of my LTx motor. It seems the pinion gear likes to try to walk over the ring gear. I have also broken CV cages. Haven't broken an axle YET! Shocked


I install these for a living and can tell you that it's not a 1 hr out 1 hr in type job. Even buying most of the parts pre made will save you a lot of time and head ache, it will still take 100 to 150 man hours , if your good. It will take tons more if you build parts as you go. We are all here to help you, so just ask, After you use the search first! Mad

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  stuart f. wright on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:15 pm

have a 86 944 with an n/a auto with some beefed up internals with a 500 hp carbed small block and have ran it on a local 1/8 mile 6.88 secs 113mph and have driven it as a daily driver backn forth to my job for 3 or 4 years trans axle still holdn up just fine.ive had my engine out several times and transaxle out once to be rebuilt by by local racing trans builder.i got an 87 turbo 5 speed car im gonna do next. get the conversion manual alot of information .the parts and conversions that ive seen here on this site are awsome .


Last edited by stuart f. wright on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:39 pm

Why do 944 tranmissions break????

The most common reason is that no one has read the factory FSM!

These transmissions are 30-40 years old and the factory maintenance procedures are rarely if at all followed. At 40K-45K mile intervals, the preload on the pinion must be checked/reset with additional shims so that the mesh of the pinion to ring gear are within factory spec (hundreths of a mm). If not performed, the gears' mesh clearance continually get larger and the teeth are mating at such a smaller area than designed or tolerated by the metal. Finally, the smaller area of mesh cannot take the load and a tooth fractures and breaks free...all hell breaks loose.

These transmissions have made it to over 100K miles without the proper procedures followed and the 4 cylinder engine which means they are great transmissions! But increase the load and (who wouldnt race it around with a newly installed V8) the transmission will fail.

So dont blame the NA box for inferiority...blame the owner and his lack of maintenance! Ive run ONLY a NA box with my LT1 and never had it break. I had synchro problems but thats unrelated.

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Porch on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:58 pm

The NA gearboxes shred the ring or pinion, the Turbo boxes have hardened R&P and a better gear ratio, so they just chuck the pinion out the back of the transmission case. We've had this argument before...fix one thing and the next will break!

I do think there are things that you can do to prolong the life of the transmission, but these things are by no means unbreakable.

P.S.--i would not run the NA box for gear ratio alone. The Turbo box puts you at ~3,000 rpms on the freeway, which is bad enough!!!


Last edited by Porch on Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Luke714 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:00 pm

From what I've heard it isn't too much trouble to put the transmission from a 944 turbo in instead. Also, the reinforcement plate mentioned in the manual and the solid trans axle mount must help. Although the plate wouldn't help the problem of stripping the pinion gear. Is it hard to adjust the clearance between the pinion and ring gear?

The conversion manual is very handy!
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  bigfeet on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:36 pm

Well ill be building it back up - basically doing a full rebuild, respray and just whilse im at it was going to shove the LS2 in. What about rebuilding the N/A gearbox ? Can i rebuild it to make it stronger ? or can another gearbox go in there?

How can you improve traction on these cause im sure 400 hp alone through the rear wheels can burn some rubber afro

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Admin on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:46 pm

500hp leaves tire as long as you keep your foot in it. Anything up to 3rd gear and you might want to granny it. It'll just pull the tires loose. When I took mine to the dyno shop I could not get a real reading cause it would not stick. Just smoked the tires. Twisted Evil

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  bigfeet on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:52 pm

hehe could be fun Smile but how do likes that RWD lambo which is 0-60 in 3. something seconds or Zonda. Theres about to be some way to get traction in 1st, 2nd, 3rd whilse flooring it ? is there not cyclops

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Dawgz83948 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:32 pm

bigfeet wrote:hehe could be fun Smile but how do likes that RWD lambo which is 0-60 in 3. something seconds or Zonda. Theres about to be some way to get traction in 1st, 2nd, 3rd whilse flooring it ? is there not cyclops

It's the gearing of the 944 that is the issue. They are geared short because of the crappy 4 cyl.
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  944v8inDFW on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:36 pm

The "upgrade to the NA trans is a S2 trans. Basically same gear ratios but built nearly the same as the turbo trans. Personally I like the NA ratios for street driving. But then again i am not looking for gas mileage. Beyond trans mount, making sure the lash is all in spec.

My favorite way to take off in the 0-60 type situation is stick the gas pedel to the floor let the engine come close to the rev limiter and let off the clutch. Not a full blown clutch dump but a feathering of the clutch that is not fully engaged until the car has moved several car lengths. More or less the way a outlaw 10.5 leaves the line.


Last edited by 944v8inDFW on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  bigfeet on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:38 pm

Ahh ok . So how do you sort that??? Can I get the gearbox strengthened and the gearing changed?

Or would another gearbox help?

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Porch on Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:28 pm

You would want to swap to either a Turbo trans or an S2 transmission. Either one will bolt in, but figure in another ...umm, i dunno, $750-1500 depending on options for the transmission. A low mileage trans with a limited slip and an oil cooler will cost a lot. A high mileage trans with neither will be a little cheaper.
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Luke714 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:33 pm

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It sounds like switching the transmission for a turbo or S2 is the way to go, I guess swapping the 5th gear from the NA to the turbo isn't hard either.

I'm interested in the 0-60 characteristics of a swapped 944 as well Twisted Evil
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Admin on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:33 pm

NA fifth gear swap is about a half day job if you don't brake anything. Shocked
If the tranny is out of the car, it's very easy to do and really does not require any special tools. Can be done in about 45 min or less on the ground. It'll help the highway RPM's.

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Porch on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:54 pm

Luke714 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It sounds like switching the transmission for a turbo or S2 is the way to go, I guess swapping the 5th gear from the NA to the turbo isn't hard either.

I'm interested in the 0-60 characteristics of a swapped 944 as well Twisted Evil

Well if you went by the speedo, mine is about 3 seconds (depending on how fast i shift into 2nd). If you were clocking the car, it would probably take about 9 seconds to get the car actually moving 60mph. Hope that helps Laughing
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Ender751 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Porch wrote:
Luke714 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It sounds like switching the transmission for a turbo or S2 is the way to go, I guess swapping the 5th gear from the NA to the turbo isn't hard either.

I'm interested in the 0-60 characteristics of a swapped 944 as well Twisted Evil

Well if you went by the speedo, mine is about 3 seconds (depending on how fast i shift into 2nd). If you were clocking the car, it would probably take about 9 seconds to get the car actually moving 60mph. Hope that helps Laughing


If you dumped the clutch in second gear instead of starting with first gear I bet it's less Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  bigfeet on Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:51 pm

so let me get this right. I can buy a cheap - ish porsche 944. Im going to strip the interior, engine, door panels, all that sort of stuff so its almost a shell. Then im going to replace anything that is rusty or broken such as panels, bolts or anything else. From there i will give it a full respray. After the respray i can put in a LS2 engine, upgrade clutch, anything else i need to upgrade ? radiator? air intake ?

Then ill deal with the geabox issue ? Any more ideas? So basically if i was to floor the pedal in first, 2nd or third it will just spin the wheels and wont move anywhere ? Im would like that 0-60 time in 3 seconds to happen and not to look silly just spinning the wheels for 10 seconds Laughing

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Porch on Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:42 pm

As much as i'd like to be able to brag about my 0-60 time, this is just not a good car for 0-60 (and honestly, 0-60 is a worthless measure of performance).

With sticky tires and the v8, revving up and dumping the clutch to get a good 0-60 time in this car, i would expect either my CV axles to snap or the transmission to explode.

These cars make great autocross and roadracing cars, and mine is a great daily driver on top of that, but IMO if you're looking for 0-60/0-100-0/ or a quarter mile car, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

If you want a car to drop an LS motor into that's cheap, RWD, and good for drag racing, i'd go for an RX-7 instead. You'll be able to run the T56 and whatever rear axle you want, and you can beat on it all day long....
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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:00 pm

Or you can do like I have done and install a 700r4 behind your motor and put a Viper pumpkin in between the rear tires and all you have to worry about is the axles and cv's.. Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:54 pm

how much of the trans tunnel did you have to modify for the 700r4


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Re: Im wanting to do an LS2 swap

Post  Admin on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:57 pm

Just the front area from the firewall back about 18", I grafted in parts of a 2002 Camaro floor pan. The Camaro pan went in in pieces though. I can't find any of the pictures from when I did it........ It was done 3 computers ago....

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