Newbe - Deciding between two chassis for an 5.3 swap

I've loved 944s and the 951 variant for a long time, until recently I didn't have the funds or space to take on a project other than something that was already running and driving. Now I have started looking for a car to swap an aluminum 5.3 with Fbody accesories and intake into.

I've come across two, one is an 86 951 Turbo rolling chassis with all of the 951 suspension and brakes.The interior is gone (but that is ok roll cage, fixed back buckets, and rear seat delete are first on the interior list) The dash is there and in good condition, no cluster. Also, the front bumper and fenders are gone. I was thinking that I would go with CF or Fiberglass replica parts. The car comes with an NA LSD transaxle. This one is going for around $800.

Car number two is an 86 944 completely stock ragged interior, car has not been driven in 4 years, basically a moth balled father/son project. It's complete but he told me that it had some minor body damage on the quarters and there was some rust. I'm trying to get some more detailed pictures of it to see what's up. I think I can pick up this one for around $1200.

I figure that the 951 is the one I should start out with, it has the upgrades that I would do to the 944...

What do you guys who have been there and done that suggest?

Based on your info it is difficult to say which is best. It sounds like the 951 is missing parts and you could find that it is missing more than you thought when you get into it. Lots of little missing stuff can cost lots of money, sometimes more than you might think. And it doesn't have the 951 transaxle either. The 944 sounds like it is kind of beat but mostly complete. However, if you need to re-build everything it can cost more money than you might expect as well.

It all depends on what you plan for the car, what you are willing to spend and how much work and time you are willing to put into the project. Just swapping the engine can be a big project for some. Add the additional things that both of these cars could need, and some people it could turn into an unfinished project pretty quickly.

But if you are the type that likes BIG projects and are not worried about the length of time it will take and the money you will put into it, then maybe either of these will be OK.

Even though mine is down to the shell now and on my rotisserie and I bought my car in very ruff condition for a specific build, there have been times that I have thought that it may have been better if I would have started with a very nice 951. I would have been driving it a long time ago. But I always get into my project cars like this and am used to it taking a long time. I also like the idea that when I am finished it is basically a new car. I will have re-built/replaced/re-conditioned/modified everything. But not many people are willing or have the means to do a project like mine.

I usually tell people that they should start with the cleanest complete car that they can afford. It can make the difference between finishing it or not.

I completely understand where you are coming from, I wish I could find a mint S2 or Turbo car with a blown motor however I have not been so lucky in my search.

I'm not so much worried about the missing front sheet metal and bumper pieces as that is a long way down the road on the project. I am looking for a long term project as I miss the days of working on my firebird back in High School.

I went from This:

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To this:

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I've done the same basic build with a '95 M3 I bought an M3 shell and started sourcing parts and ended up with a complete car that I used as a track toy for a while... till the S50 decided to start blowing headgaskets.... That car was dubbed by my friends the "M3 in a box"... it now resides in the back corner of a shop waiting for an M62 swap by a good friend of mine.

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So I guess what I am saying is that I am not worried about the small pieces or the extra time spent on a project because I am going to go through it no matter what.

I guess what I am asking is simply this: Is the 951 platform a better base or is the 944 a better base? I've been told the 951 allows for a bigger radiator. I know it has better suspension and brakes. but the question remains, if I am going to be going aftermarket for the front body work (ie CF or Fiberglass) with some sort of coilover suspension TBD (the 951 has Koni adj coilovers that are from Ground Control). Which car is a better blank canvas?

Thank you for your insight!

Wow! Impressive work on the Firebird!

As for chassis comparison, I am pretty sure they are all the same starting with the original 944 all the way to the 968. If you think you can make a complete car out of both the 944 and 951 mentioned above, do it. Honestly, I would not get the 951 because of a lot that is missing and I would not get the 944 because it's not really a solid base for this type of swap. All I can recommend is to sit on Rennlist and start picking off the parts you need from the many parts cars and go from there. I was lucky and found a 86 951 with a blown motor but I am kind of regretting it now due to a decent amount of rust. Luckily no rust is on the frame/body, but it looks like I am going to be replacing a lot of bolts and brackets. Either way, good luck with your decision and keep looking, stuff does tend to show up. If I remember right, someone on Rennlist let a 951 chassis go for free, so it is definitely possible to find a good deal.

the one thing I like about the 951 chassis is that it is completely rust free, the carpet is up and it doesn't have nasty stuff under it. He's willing to throw in enough stuff to give it a complete 944 front. I also have a few 924 parts cars to use as well.

I figured that most would think that the 951 was a solid base because it is rust free, all sheet metal and trim is there from the firewall back is there. As well as the suspension being a major bonus, or is it not really? Should I maybe just buy both and make one out of them?

[quoteI am pretty sure they are all the same starting with the original 944 all the way to the 968.[/quote]

They are not! The later cars (85.5 and up) are better for many reasons. The 951 is better because it has the better brakes, alloy rear trailing arms, cleaner front end in front of the radiator. (unless you are talking about an S2 or 968) If it is to be a street car the HVAC is far better on the oval dash cars. (85.5 and up)

If you go for the 951 check the transaxle. If it is a late transaxle (944S or S2) it is mostly identical to the 951 outside of the ring and pinion ratio. (stronger than the early 944)

Nice Firebird. Sometime I would like to build a 69 Trans Am clone. I had a few GTO's and 2nd gen Trans Am's.

v8carreragts wrote:They are not! The later cars (85.5 and up) are better for many reasons. The 951 is better because it has the better brakes, alloy rear trailing arms, cleaner front end in front of the radiator. (unless you are talking about an S2 or 968) If it is to be a street car the HVAC is far better on the oval dash cars. (85.5 and up)

I was referencing the same bare chassis, not what was installed on them.

robstah wrote:

v8carreragts wrote:They are not! The later cars (85.5 and up) are better for many reasons. The 951 is better because it has the better brakes, alloy rear trailing arms, cleaner front end in front of the radiator. (unless you are talking about an S2 or 968) If it is to be a street car the HVAC is far better on the oval dash cars. (85.5 and up)

I was referencing the same bare chassis, not what was installed on them.

'83's have the highly coveted 5th gear (at least something - GO '83s!! )

Thanks for the Tech banter! This is much better than many car related sites.

I've located a 91 S2 in Texas with a blown motor, I am trying to get some info/more pictures of the car now.

I was referencing the same bare chassis, not what was installed on them

The chassis is also different in some ways. There is more re-inforcement in the 85.5 and up cars in many areas and the S2 cars ars identical to the 951.

Pzary3233 wrote:Thanks for the Tech banter! This is much better than many car related sites.

I've located a 91 S2 in Texas with a blown motor, I am trying to get some info/more pictures of the car now.

The 91 s2 that is in Texas was located near me. I think the guy has sold it. I tried to get an address to go look at it and he never replied. If he replies to you send me a message and I'll go look at it for you. I think it was just a couple of minutes from me.
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