HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

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Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:22 pm

Hi, I'm considering swapping a GM L33 5.3 into a '79 Euro 5-speed OB. The project will be a slow build; something taking a year or so for the engine swap (and upgrades) and another year or three to complete the interior, paint, suspension, brakes, etc. Projects like this are a hobby for me, and finding time for them comes after all the usual household, kids, family stuff. In the end, I'd just like to have a really fun to drive summer car. I've owned a very nice OB 928 before and really liked the car, but disliked that it was an automatic and had a blue interior. The car for this project has been neglected enough that I won't feel bad about changing anything I don't like, and building it to suit me.

The engine I'm considering is a GM L33 5.3. I know it will probably be essentially a wash in cost vs an LS1 after the cost of swapping in the F-body accessories, but finding a good F-body LS1 within 500 miles seems much harder than finding a good L33, which are available locally. If anyone has a good 5.3 Vortec or L33 shopping list for accessories and/or manual transmission conversion, I'd love to see the thread. I'm also interested in resources (here or elsewhere) documenting how others have managed get to 350+ rwhp with a GM 5.3 block using a minimal set of upgrades.

I've already asked in the swap kit thread about the mounts and such, so I feel pretty well covered there. I also tracked down the thread about cracked bell housings in the 944 LS1 swap area. Good information to have even though I wasn't planning to run with solid mounts. I figure I'll start with OE rubber and then try to source upgrades on an as-needed basis if there are mount failures. Again, I'm open to learning from advise and experience.


Last edited by erioshi on Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : updated the thread title)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:41 am

Since I am getting tired of pushing the 928 in & out of the garage when I want to work on something else, I decided to try to sort out the no-start condition it has.  A bit of testing lead to figuring out it wasn't seeing fuel.  More testing showed that the rear external high pressure fuel pump was bad.  Oh joy, lol.

While researching all of this, I found this thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The aftermarket pump listed appears to be an AutoBest F4170 fuel pump that's available through Rock Auto or Amazon for about $59.  That pump comes up under a Rock Auto parts search as an "economy" OR replacement pump for my 928.  Nice price, but I'm wondering if I might just end up replacing it eventually as part of my swap.  My concern is that the L33 starts at 300 crank HP and the AutoBest pump may not be able to keep up after a few mods.

Two other possible alternatives come to mind.  First, to source an LS1 pump assembly from a Camaro and try to adapt it to the 928 tank.  I would need to figure out new lines to adapt to the existing fuel system, but it would make a very clean long term solution when I could re-run all new lines with the swap.  Or second, to mount a Walbro 392 in the OE location instead of the AutoBest.  The walbro should offer more upgrade potential than the AutoBest pump.  All of these solutions could be used with a Corvette fuel filter/regulator combo unit for a return-less fuel system system down the road.

I really like the idea of an in-tank basket set-up, but I'm thinking it would add quite a bit of complexity.  And my experience has taught me that too much complexity can really kill these kinds of projects.  The basket swap would mean sorting out fuel gauge sender resistances (and possibly an adapter), possibly needing to modify the 928 fuel tank to fit the basket, reworking the fuel system's lines to close off the holes no longer needed after the basket install, and finally running new lines .. which I should probably do anyway eventually.  Not impossible, but still quite a bit of added work just a for a bit unseen neatness.  Although, long-term, the basket set-up would be better protected from the elements than an external pump set-up.

Thoughts?
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  spence on Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:01 am

Your external pump has lasted 30 plus years and has been exposed to the "elements".... Why not just replace it and be done with it lol... sounds like you think way too much. I'd go with the walbro 392 external pump.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  99sierra4x4 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:26 am

I have the L33 in my 944 swap. If you want send me a PM and I can give you a list of all the components and places where I purchased them to get the engine from a short block to a complete engine. I am still running it stock, next year I am planning a cam upgrade and intake upgrade.

Andy

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:33 pm

spence wrote:Your external pump has lasted 30 plus years and has been exposed to the "elements".... Why not just replace it and be done with it lol... sounds like you think way too much. I'd go with the walbro 392 external pump.
Yes, I agree. I actually ordered a Walbro 392 from Amazon earlier today. After that I'll need to sort out a coolant leak; it looks like it may be related to the upper bridge or a hose in that area.

I tend to be a bit of a closet engineer, so if I had unlimited budget, time and tools, I would probably strip everything back to a raw shell, and then look to rebuild with all shiny new bits and systems updated to modern spec. And I'm sure the car would never be finished, lol. I recognize that trap and am working to avoid it. Thank you for your dose of common sense.

Andy .. Thanks very much and expect a PM. I'd love to know more about your car, do you have a build thread I've missed somewhere?

Finally had my CD with all the manuals arrive. Good value for the price, but no Euro manuals. Not perfect,but much better than working blind.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  xschop on Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:40 pm

There is a lot of weight to be stripped out of the 928. I'm still stripping out stuff. Putting in the LS dumps 150lbs off front nose alone. The thick rubber under matting weighs a ton.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:18 am

xschop wrote:There is a lot of weight to be stripped out of the 928. I'm still stripping out stuff. Putting in the LS dumps 150lbs off front nose alone. The thick rubber under matting weighs a ton.
I've been following your thread and reading about your weight savings, impressive stuff.  What you've found in available weight savings is eye-opening stuff.

I am wondering how much of a difference all of your weight saving efforts have made on the interior noise level when freeway driving?  One of my primary goals for the car is weekend road trips, so I'd prefer not to loose too much of the car's GT character.  From what I remember, my last 928 was relatively quiet at freeway speeds (say about 80 mph), a characteristic I would like to keep.

That said, your work does inspire visions of a completely stripped out and caged 928 race car.  Taken right down to the shell with plexi or polycarbonate replacing glass, a minimized electrical system, race gauges in a token dash pod, etc.   And lots of rubber to go with the full-race aero.  I'll be taking enough heat building one 928 ( ...another toy car... Rolling Eyes ); I think a adding 2nd might be too much.  That said, if I hold out for just the right parts car for those interior parts, I could be 1/2 way towards sneaking a 928 race car into the garage...

You are a bad influence, lol.

I think I'd better finish this one before thinking about starting on another.

Let me add a huge thank you for all the research you've done and the knowledge you have contributed to this community.  My thanks also extends to all the other members of this community and these forums.  My planned swap project is very much a product of being able to read and learn from the things you and other members of this community have contributed.  You guys have built a wonderful resource here.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:27 am

A couple pics of the patient.  I'll eventually post more as the project unfolds, but these are a couple I grabbed from my phone.

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The car was purchased from a local seller who had it advertised on craigslist.  The original ask was more than I was willing to pay, but the owner contacted me a couple months later with an offer that seemed to be more in line with the work the car needed.

The car is a '79 euro 5-speed and if the odometer isn't lying, it has only seen about 38k miles.  It's a tough call.  The general body and undercarriage look to fit the low mileage claim so far, but the interior and and paint are definitely shot.  The seller was the 2nd owner, and the original owner bought the car in Germany and then had it imported to the US when he moved here.  The exterior is a non-metallic dark brown (that will have to change .. looks like poo .. literally), and the interior is a light saddle brown with black & white Pasha inserts.  While I wouldn't mind a very subdued version of the Pasha, the torn black & white Pasha is just an all-out assault on my optic nerves, and will eventually need to go.  I'm not sure about the brown interior, however.  While I generally prefer black interiors, I may just keep the light brown as part of the car's original character, but with a more subtle choice of insert.  Anyway, I'm a very long way from needing to worry about fabric colors.

The car has obviously spent a number of years sitting outside.  The interior is in rough shape, with some heat damage (cracked dash & pod), lots of grime, along with fabric deterioration and wear damage.  A prior owner has also added a stylish black duct-tape patch to the failing material on the drivers seat, and created a mess that applies adhesive goo to anything that comes within about 10 feet of it, including clothing, skin, hair, tools and everything else.

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Luckily, there are no signs of water or water damage anywhere inside the cabin.  The exterior rubber is generally good, but there are some places that need attention.  The paint is badly faded, and much of the clear coat is heavily oxidized.  There is basically no rust on the car, save a one minor bit on the base the driver's rear 3/4 window and two small bits along the base of the hatch.  Even the underside looks to be free of the the dreaded brown scourge.  Given I live in Minnesota where rust eats whole cars in relatively short order, even aluminum and galvanized steel ones, the condition of the body is actually exceptional for a local car that has seen this much neglect.  There are also some electrical gremlins (yeah, I know) and some questionable, looking non-stock electrical "updates" that I'll need to work through (even more "yeah, I know", lol).  Generally a basket-case, but nothing requiring radical surgery to save or make driveable, just a lot of hard work.

As a data-point for comparison, I had looked at another local 928 (with a higher asking price) that had also been sitting years.  There was rust-through on the outer rockers, bad rust on the inner rockers, and the door skins were in the process of separating from the door frames via corrosion along their folded edges.  You could literally lift the entire bottom edge of the either door skin away from the door frame with just a tiny bit of finger tip pressure.  And the corrosion was just the beginning of that car's problems; minor collision damage, thrashed interior, cracked glass, electrical gremlins, non-running, etc.  Let's just say that I wasn't too interested...

While I would have preferred to start with an excellent shell with a good interior, finding any rust free, 30+ year old 928 up here for sale that would make a good candidate for a swap is hard, and the cars tend to be either complete wrecks or pampered summer toys that will only sell "if the price is right", not too many cars that fall somewhere in the middle.

I did search nationally, too.  There do seem to be fewer of these cars available then there have been in the past.  While I did find cars that would probably have made a better starting point, I couldn't find an OB in Petrol Blue (the color of my last 928, and what I plan to paint his car) with a black interior.  I figured if I will eventually have to paint it anyway, why not start with this car.


Last edited by erioshi on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:28 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : updated pic paths)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:58 pm

So the GM LSx clutch thing looks really simple until you get buried under a whole pile of details .. then it seems to get complicated quickly, lol.

My goals were to be able to handle a solid 400+ crank HP comfortably while using a lightweight flywheel.  I had a great twin disk in my last summer car, and I really loved the way that drove, but I think such a set-up would probably be overkill here.  I also have no idea if one would even work in a 928 swap.  Although if one would fit, I might be strongly tempted.  I'd think of it as insurance in case I decided I wanted more power, along with the inevitable transmission swap and upgrade.

Anyway, I think I've figured out a flywheel, clutch and pressure plate combo that might work, but I'd appreciate opinions.

For the flywheel, I believe a Fidanza LS1 / LS2 / LS6 unit (198171) should work:
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For the clutch disk a Sachs BBD4163:
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And for the pressure plate, it looks like a GM LS7 clutch kit will give me a good option for a pressure plate.
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All this comes from a bit of digging through LS1 Tech, here, and some other LSx swap forums.

Thoughts?
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:16 pm

I think your car seems good one for a swap. Important is that the gearbox works and there are no big body issues to fix. If anything else is wrong youl propably going to change it anyhow. (engine, k-jetronic etc)

Check any water damage from the right side A-pilar. That is exactly where all the relays and fuses are and its a one Place that will get water into a 928. also that causes some of the electrical gremlins as connections in the "mainboard" are so bad. One action to do is to clean up the connections in that "mainboard".

My car had water in the sound proofing under the rearseats. The hatch seal had leaked but the seat covers were dry... I think the sound proofing weighted like 40kg when I picked those out. I only discovered when I was stripping the car down and the insulation was still moist and the car had been in the garage about a month or so.

About the street comfort in the car. If the interior is in decent condition, meaning the dash is not cracked and the door cards are straight (not warped from the bottom) then just leave it, or change some sporty seats for trackday use.
You will have plenty of "go" with a 400hp engine even without any major weight saving. Drive with half a tank..that saves like 40kg.. Smile

You could easily save weight with the easy ones. Lighter wheels, (hard to do compared to the ones you have), lighter battery, lighter seats (hard if you have the Basic manual seats, but newer 928 seats weight a ton with the electric adusment), lighter engine, ditch spare wheel etc. You can save up to 100kg propably without ripping anythin out from the car.

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:26 pm

BTW...this is my car in its best...before the crash.. damn it looked good..now I can hardly recognise it. Crying or Very sad 

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And the interior is similar to yours... I like the green and white pasha...ofcourse the interior was quite poor and old..
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The gearknob is homemade wooden one  with a homemade round gearstick with a short-throw ratio..

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:04 pm

Attes, that is .. or was .. a beautiful car; I'm sorry to hear about your accident.  Hopefully you can either repair it or find a suitable replacement.  Is the color moss green metallic?  Regardless, it's a wonderful looking car.  Do you have more information about your gearshift lever and shift-knob?

Unfortunately the condition of mine isn't anywhere near as nice as yours.  The seats are shot, the interior is filthy, the dash and pod are cracked and the carpets are badly faded, and there are even a few spots where the vinyl is torn.  At least there do not seem to be hard to find pieces missing, except the passenger's door vent missing a single vane and the windshield defroster vent bezels are also MIA.  I will post more pictures in the future as the project unfolds.

I may be able to achieve some weight savings, but I did specifically look for an early euro-spec car with a manual transmission, manual seats, no rub-strips and very little in the way of options because I wanted a light car to start with.  This one does have a sunroof, but I had more difficulty finding good 5 speed cars that were "project" priced than I expected.  I decided I would rather have this car and be working on it, rather than miss out on one of few good cars I had seen to I keep searching for what I considered to be the perfect car for my swap.

Yesterday I had a chance to finally remove the bad fuel pump and take a good, hard look at the rest of the car.  One thing I found was that even with the fuel pump removed, the fuel tank outlet seems to be blocked solid.  I need to drop the tank anyway because the bolts holding up the fuel pump cover snapped off the studs on the fuel tank cradle.  Looks like I will have to drop the tank this weekend if I can find time.

Pic of the offending component:
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Here's the tank shield with the accumulated grime from almost 35 years with possibly only 38k miles.  Note the snapped off studs inside inside the nuts:
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And an interesting bit of engineering I found that looks to have been an .. um .. custom repair .. for the oil breather hose:
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I believe that hose is NLA, but I'm not sure that's what I'd consider a proper repair.

Here are the results from the compression check.  The car has been sitting for about four years, so I wasn't expecting great numbers.  I just wanted to take make sure there were not major problems as the prior owner mentioned having the had the original radiator fail.  Given these numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if they get better if I get the car up and running .. at least until I have all the swap parts.
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And finally, a link to a Petrol Blue Metallic thread on PP.  I really loved that color on my last 928, and I'm hoping I can paint this one in that color.

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I'll save the more disappointing pictures of this car for another post.


Last edited by erioshi on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : updated pic paths)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:58 am

My car has some interesting lettering that I wanted to learn a bit more about:

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A bit or googling turned up some information.  Sparbanken seems to be a bank; not too surprising with "bank" being part of the name.  Folksam seems to be an insurance company .. ok.

The interesting bit is that Zirkelbach-Porsche seems to be referencing Josef Zirkelbach, of DP cars.  It looks like they received quite a bit of publicity for doing wild custom Porsche builds back in the 80's.  Ok, so did someone just sticker this car up, or is there a reason it has these stickers?  I'll probably never know for sure.  One other odd bit; the following video came up as a search result when I was looking into things:



It's been linked in RL before, but not for a few years.  I watched it and from 1:10 to 1:36 when watching a car move from the parking area into the shop, a brown 928 (appears to be the same color as mine) that has a (very blurry) window logo that seems very similar in shape to my car's is seen sitting the parking lot.  How many brown very early 928 cars have ever been dressed up like this?  

While there are no real facts here, it does make me a bit more interested in trying to learn more about my car's history.  Interesting, no?


Last edited by erioshi on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : updated pic paths)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:26 am

Sparbanken is Swedish and means "savings bank".
Is the car shifted from Sweden?
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at least they have same logo.

the tank is also hanging from the filler neck so taking the strap away dont get the tank to the floor.
Make sure its allmoust empty as its a big tank and if it is full it tends to weight a lot.

The outlet port is screwed in and you might be able to get it out even with the tank attached. I did change that outlets O-ring once...you might want to do the same if you start messing with it.

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Since I need to repair the mounting studs, I plan to remove the tank, replace any hoses or other parts that need to be addressed, clean up and re-paint the support cradle.  And then just generally give the back part of the fuel system a good look-over and reconditioning where needed.  Most of these parts are probably 35 years old, and I'm sure many of them will need to be serviced or replaced
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:25 am

Good.

If your car is K-jetronic there are parts in the fuel lines that you do not need but if they are working they should not harm either. Example the pressure accumulator, in the right rear fender.

It tends to leak at some point but if it doesn and fuel lines are ok, you should be able to leave it there.

In my car it was clearly visible that Porsche had planned to use two fuelpumps as there was second wiring and odd aluminun pipe in the fuel line. Or something they planned as the pipe and the wires were at the same spot.

I did replate the accumulator and made in a hydraulics shop one fuel line from the pump into the accumulator just to be sure. also made my self a new fuel pipes surrounding the accumulator.

My car is registered at 78 but build in 77 so in those early cars they might be some oddities that they changed in the newer versions.


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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:07 am

I'm way behind on pictures here, so I'll try to get caught up this weekend. Now for today's odd thought:

I'm thinking that long-term, sourcing an economical alternative to the OE in-tank screen will be a good idea. When I dropped my fuel tank to inspect and clean it, I discovered that 85% of the OE tank filter mesh had failed and looks to have been ingested by the (now dead) OE fuel pump. At least I now have a reasonable answer for why the original fuel pump failed.

I could replace the OE tank filter with another of the same type, but it looks like my car has already had the in-tank pump replaced with this screen at not all that long ago. Considering I should be pulling even more fuel with a Walbro 255 LPH pump that the original pump did, my replacement pump will probably place even more stress on the in-tank screen. I'm not sure I want to risk relying on OE parts that already seem to have demonstrated an unexpected failure. From what I can tell, it looks like the original in-tank pump was replaced with that screen near the end of the original owner's possession of the car, so a guess would be about around 5 or 6 years ago. Which means that failure came well before I would typically expect to see problems with an OE part. Ideas?

Also, as I've researched ideas for replacing old hoses and updating the fuel system, I'm starting to think that using modern GM style quick connect fittings, filters, and nylon fuel line for fuel delivery and return segments may make sense. Good quality, readily available parts, A minimum multi-connector transitions, and a system that has proven itself reliable through OE use on literally millions of vehicles. Also my OE filter and accumulator will need to be replaced; the accumulator looks to be leaking, and the filter seems to be at least partially blocked; I guess this is not really a surprise given the state of the OE tank screen. Thoughts?
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:31 pm

The advanced editor is back, lol.  Not sure why it seems to come & go the way it does for me.

First up, considering this car lives in an area where salt & rust seem to eat everything made of metal where even the slightest bit of moisture can grab on, I'm amazed at how clean the underside of this car is.  I know the last owner drove it hard, and I'm sure it has seen plenty of rain, if not worse.  Despite that, the floors look really good.

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I'll be surprised if the tank support isn't the most rusted part on this car.  You can see where the OE foam padding obviously trapped water along the fuel line channel, and where the straps facing the rear of the car picked up plenty of spray.  I will also need to repair the two studs that are now missing from the tank strap assembly. I'll post some details when I do the repair.

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And here is a picture of the Walbro 392 I'm using for the swap, along with the failed OE pump for a bit of size comparison.  I'm very comfortable with the Walbro's potential to deliver enough fuel.  On my Evo, I had a similar Walbro in-tank pump delivering 400 WHP on E85 with plenty of capacity to spare.  Considering E85 requires about 20% more volume than gasoline for the same power, I figure I should be safe to over 500 WHP.

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And since we're talking about the fuel system, here are a couple more pics.  The first is the tank fresh out of the car before any cleaning, and the second is the expansion tank, fuel filter and accumulator from deep in the right rear fender, along with probably 1/3 of the total dirt that dropped while I was removing these parts.

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Here's the final pic for this post.  It's the failed tank screen with essentially none of the OE screen remaining.  There were a few tiny bits hanging on when I first removed it, but they fell as soon as I set the screen down.  I'e ordered a replacement, but think that long-term I'd like to move to a more robust solution.

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That's all for the fuel fuel system until I pull the tank sender to test it and start to re-assemble the car with replacement parts.


Last edited by erioshi on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : now with pics!)
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erioshi

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:57 am

Moving on, I decided to give the vacuum hoses another quick look, as a few odd details had caught my attention.  First I had to snip the tips of a few of the smaller lines because they had stretched and were no longer sealing correctly.  Not a permanent fix, but my goal is really just to see if I can get this engine running while I'm collecting the major parts for the swap.  As I posted above with the oil breather hose "repair", I've noticed some "unique solutions" that seem to have been added by the last owner's mechanic.  I found the faded red heater hose segments being used as vacuum tubing .. colorful.  I also spotted a large split in the vacuum hose that feeds the brake booster.

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The final oddity for, at least for today, is the radiator that was in my car.  My car only has the cooler fittings only on the left side of the engine bay.  The radiator that I removed looked to be upside down; it had the tabs for the air intakes riding on the floor, and the bottom bolt clips for the (missing) lower radiator shroud on top.  I'm not sure if the end tanks are universal (they looked to be), but I suppose it could also be a radiator for a car with only the right-side cooler hoses.  I know if I were to have the end-caps flipped (essentially the core rotated 180 degrees) that would make the radiator a correct fit for my car.  Also the unit had definitely been rebuilt in the past, so it is possible that the ends were just revered in the process.  Regardless, it looked like one of the end-caps may have had a slight leak at the tank-seam, so I sent it off to have it rebuilt to fit my car.

As it was mounted in my car:
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As it looks like it was designed to be mounted:
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At this point, I'm nearing the end of of what I really want to accomplish on the car until parts start to arrive.  I'm hoping I can finish up a few more maintenance tasks next week, and then finally begin to put this car back together, and hopefully enjoy it until swap-time.

..Oh, except for all those other issues outside of the purely mechanical realm that will need some fettling.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:53 pm

Some of the new parts are starting to arrive. Hopefully I'll have some time to work on the car later this week.  I'll post some pics once there is a bit of progress.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:45 am

The fun in restoring old cars is the surprises, right?

The shop with my radiator called with an update, and the prognosis is not good.  It seems that my left side end-tank has a small crack near the bottom corner along the area where the tank folds over to become the flange for the core's fingers to clamp onto.  It sounds like plastic welding and other types of repair are out.

So now its decision time. Repair my OE radiator option; do I replace the end-tank with another and hope there are no further issues with this radiator down the road.  Cost guestimate ~$300 usd after all is said and done.  The 928 specific after-market option; a new all aluminum radiator from 928 motorsports with (almost) OEM fit and improved cooling.  Cost ~$850 usd.  The new Porsche 928 radiator option; uncertain availability (because I haven't seriously called anyone yet) and an estimated cost of about ~$1,300 usd, iirc.  The hot-rod option; find a properly sized OE or after-market radiator from something domestic with a built in cooler that can be had for far less, and will work well with the swap.  Cost, who knows .. but probably much lower than any other "new radiator" solution...

I'm thinking the "hot-rod" option may make the most sense, but I need more info.  I think I'm going to look for a radiator with a built-in transmission cooler and a size comparable to our OE unit, that is also capable of cooling a typical hi-performance GM or Ford v8.  I have read that some Mustang radiators are similar in size to the OE 928 unit, so perhaps that is where I'll start.  If anyone is aware of a good candidate, please chime in.

I suppose this will also give me a chance to think about how to address a few other cooling system details I'll probably eventually face anyway.  One item will be switching to electric fans; my OE fan clutch feels weak, and the bottom half of the OE fan shroud was missing on my car.  Probably an issue related to the upside down radiator I found installed in the car.  Those problems would need to be addressed before my car could see real-world stop and go city traffic.  Adding electric fans will also require sorting out power, a switching relay, and some type of activation trigger.  A second change might be sourcing a temperature sensor or adapter that will show the correct resistances to the OE gauge cluster to keep the temperature gauge working like stock.  Another change might be switching over the transmission cooling lines to hard lines that go directly into the radiator.  I would probably need to replace the OE cooler fittings with something that will fit properly with whatever US spec radiator I choose, so I may as well go all hard line with a small flex section if needed.  That should get a couple of very bulky hoses cleanly out of my way.  At least the OE Porsche radiator mounts and side shrouding are bolt-in components, allowing me to fabricate something different if needed, and should allow me to create a solution without having to cut up the car's actual body.

Unexpected projects are fun, right?  Although I do have to admit this is not totally unexpected.  The PO had disclosed the car has a cooling system leak; I was just hoping the problem was one of the other minor leaks I have already addressed.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:59 am

I would go for a ford radiator. It has the hoses inputs in the right corners and the sizes match. or close enough.

At this point if you do not aim to keep the in original condition I would choose the cheapest one.

Then a bit tricker would to fit a radiator which is good for future chevy application. It would require fiddling with the hoses but then you would not need to build the radiator again when you switch into chevy power.

There might be used 928 radiators (working ones) also around for cheap...




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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:40 pm

I will be meeting with the radiator shop owner tomorrow to go over some different ideas.  From what he has said, the driving factor may ultimately be the size of the 928 transmission cooler and lines.  I'll know more then.

I'm building a car I can drive and enjoy.  I had already decided that I wasn't interested in restoring back to original; the car's age and parts uncertainty were large factors in that decision.  I am much more interested in driving than cleaning, polishing and car shows.  When I decided to drop the fuel system and upgrade to GM style Quick Connect fittings, a Corvette fuel filter and the Walbro fuel pump, I decided I wasn't going to look back.  At this point mechanical originality is a much lower priority than a fun and reliable driving experience.

I do plan to keep the car's interior, body and suspension fairly close to stock.  I enjoy those parts of its character. The wiring will probably all go at some point and be replaced with a more up to date solution.  With modern electronics there is really no need to have a car that needs the kind of electrical system maintenance that a stock 928 currently seems to require.

But much of that is big picture talk, and meaningless unless placed against a backdrop of action.  Hopefully the last of the parts for the fuel system will arrive this week, and I can begin to put things back together.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:37 am

I think fixing old parts and improving the original design is acceptable (preferred) if the idea is to drive the car. Porsche did not make 100% bulletproof stuff then or now.
Despite as Porsches go a 928 is quite reliable one if serviced properly.
Maybe that is down to the fact that there were no possibilities to "improve" (ruin) the car by engine mods etc, like 911 and 944 Turbos`s. (now there is when 928`s have fallen into hand of car buys instead of guys who wanted a porsche to get beaver)

The guys who restore the cars they want the car to be as it was even with the problems they had.
Which is also understandable.

I think there are many 928:s around so some could be modded without any heartache there are still plenty of cars to be restored or kept original...

And our mods make the restored ones value to increase, so we are doing those "purists" a favor. Smile

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  suboptimalfit on Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:02 am

real world radiator stories: daily driven/abused for 14 years (and counting). i swapped in a Ron Davis/DEVEK alum unit, and it failed in 2 years. (leak in tank/fin area- not weldable). replaced with another Ron Davis/DEVEK unit. (i HAD to keep the trick aftermarket pieces)... again the alum unit failed in 4 years, same tank/fin leak issue.
in a pinch i learned about "resealing " the end tanks of the original Behr rad.
I called my pals at the local Porsche wrecking yard and grabbbed a decent used one, gave ALL the tank tabs a slight squeeze (to clamp the oring seal tighter) and so far so good! approx. 5 years and counting! as much as i like messing with things- sometimes the engineers did get it right...

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

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