HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

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Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:19 am

Thank you for sharing your experience.  It does reinforce the direction I feel is right to go with my radiator.

Basically, right now we are trying to source a suitable combination of modern OEM core (research seems to show properly sized cores should be available) and end tanks (not yet researched) that can house the 928 transmission oil cooler.  We are both doing some research and making calls to see if the parts are available to build the radiator we would like at a reasonable price.  I'm very interested in new parts with good availability and pricing, but really want something built to OEM quality standards.  If that doesn't work, then I will pick up an end tank along with new O rings and repair my current radiator.

I've also been busy working through my list of obvious minor issues and picking up needed odds & ends to get everything sorted and the fuel system and tank back into the car.  I have most of what I need already already, but am still waiting on a few parts.  Hopefully the remaining bits arrive soon.  I'm really looking forward to finally putting good parts back into the car instead of taking problem parts out.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:19 pm

Sorry about the long delay on updates, but things have been a bit hectic.  I ended up buying an '84  parts car to grab some bits off.  My car came from the factory without AC, and where I live it is essential for most of the warm weather driving season.  After pricing out the costs of adding AC to my car, buying the parts car turned out to be a real money saver for just this project alone.

The parts car is an automatic, and it looks like our Chump Car team wants to use what's left for for a race car after I'm done with it.  I've been a busy getting the car moved and trying to adjust my schedule to make time to get it stripped down quickly.  Also it looks like we may have found room within the Chump Car rules to manage an LM 4.8 swap and keep the car both within the rules and allowed competition budget for the series.  If (when?) we do move forward with swapping the auto race car, I'll open a build thread on it with plenty of pictures.

A couple of nice bonuses from the parts car are that it came with four good OEM 8" H4 euro headlights and a set of 17" wheels.  While the wheels would not be my first choice, at least I now  have a second set of wheels and tires on hand.  I've always loved the look of the euro headlights and had them on my last 928.  I will definitely be installing one of the sets on my car.

I will post up some pics once I can get them re-sized and uploaded onto my website.


Last edited by erioshi on Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : dyslexia is fun...)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:27 am

Time for a few pics.  Here are the latest from my car's fuel system update:

The new fuel system parts keep arriving.  Right now I have almost everything I need to put the fuel system back together .. provided I keep to my original plan.  Instead I plan on making one small change, and that will require a different fuel filter and one different connector.  Basically I've decided to see if the OE Porsche engine can be made to run with the returnless fuel system I will need for the swap.  If the change works .. great, if not then I will either go back to this set-up or just continue to move forward with my swap.  Unused parts from this set-up may well end up being used in a friend's '87 RX-7 (FC) as part of his LT1 and ZF 6-speed conversion.

Fuel system parts
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New toy - Dorman Nylon Fuel Line Repair Kit
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Walbro 392 and quick connect fittings.  The three metal quick connect fittings had to be custom made as I couldn't find a supplier.  Basically I asked a local place to use their metal line crimp tool to add male quick connect ends onto the repair kits that consisted of a bit of fuel line that included a GM style threaded flare nut with o-ring on one end.  Total cost was under $10 per custom metal quick connect fitting including purchasing the original metal fuel line repair "kits" on amazon.
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Walbro 392 and Corvette C4 fuel filter with custom fittings.  Slick, but I'm going to skip using this filter for now to try running the car with the returnless system I plan to use with my conversion.  The next set-up will use a C5 combination fuel filter / fuel pressure regulator instead of this C4 fuel filter.  I suspect the C5 FPR may not play nice with the OE CIS, but it's something I'm going to try out for fun.  I will leave the OE fuel return lines in the car for now in case I need to revert to this set-up temporarily.  One other point worth considering is that I have no idea how well my Walbro will work with the OE fuel system .. returnelss or in OEM configuration.
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The above picture does highlight one unexpected problem I ran into.  The Walbro 392 specific quick connect fitting is designed fit a Chrysler style connector instead of the GM connector.  While the male portion of both connectors is the same, the female portion of the Chrysler connector requires less depth.  The GM connector shown above is bottoming out on the fitting before it can properly lock into place.  At least the Chrysler fitting should be compatible with my line repair kit.  I'll post a pic showing the difference once the Chrysler fittings are here.

The Walbro pump has also created a couple of other minor issues that are worth noting.  The source of the issue is that the Walbro uses a 5/16" diameter inlet and outlet.  This conflicts with the OE fuel system in two ways.  On the inlet side of the fuel pump, the OE fuel system uses a custom hose that starts with approximately a 5/8" ID (inside diameter) and tapers to approximately 1/2" ID between the fuel tank and OE fuel pump.  I needed to order a special step-down adapter, and will need to replace the barbed 3/8" end that is currently on the Walbro.  On the outlet side of the fuel pump, the OE and LS1 systems are both basically 3/8" ID (or 10mm .. not an exact fit but they mostly interchange).  The walbro quick connect fitting is again 5/16", so I needed locate Chrysler 90 degree fittings that also adapt from 5/15" male inlet to 3/8" male barbed outlet.  I think I have found the right part, but want to have one in hand to verify it works before claiming success.  I will post pictures of the final set-up once I have everything sorted.

If anyone would like me to provide part numbers for these items, please let me know.


Last edited by erioshi on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added content and fixed 2 am typos)
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:20 am

And now some pictures of the parts car.  This car is very rough, and the previous owner seems to have owned it for about two years before giving up on trying to make it run.  I think he just gave up and put the car on craigslist.  I am mainly interested in the headlights and AC components for my car.  I've been wanting a set of euro H4 lights and this car came with four good ones plus one spare H4 lens.

Pretty headlight...
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While the lights are nice, the air conditioning components are really why I purchased the car.  From what I've seen, trying to collect a full set of AC lines, components, and in-car controls would easily have cost more than this car, even for used parts.  Transferring all of those bits over will be quite a bit of work, but I would have to do much of that work to install AC parts in my car regardless of the source.  I'm also not too worried about electrical differences, I have always planned to rewire my car from scratch as part of my swap.  I really dislike all the problems that seem to come up with the OE wiring in these cars.

Finally, this car has a good radiator.  As I've posted above, I need a solution to my OE radiator's leaking end tank.  This allows me to move past that and address the radiator when I have the time to make a more fully researched decision.

The rest is pretty bad, and the pics kind of tell the story.  Unfortunately the closer you get, the worse the car becomes.  These 10 foot pics make it look like the paint might be salvageable, but the actual situation is that the car has had a very bad respray in what looks to be a poor quality paint and additionally is covered in orange-peal.  There are also deep scratches and other paint damage.
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The interior is actually worse than it looks in these pics, and even worse than the outside.  I'm hoping some of the interior panels can be salvaged to be used for re-covering.  That would allow me to start that process without having to completely strip out the interior of my car.
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A really sad mess .. so why not just turn it into a race car, lol.  The Chump Car team I'm part of has decided this will be our next race car, once I've stripped out the parts I want.  Our region is full of engine swapped E30 and E36 teams (literally about 1/2 of the surviving field at the checkered flag last Sunday), and this seems to be one of a very few cars that has a chance to push back against the local BMW horde.  I'll post more in a new thread as the race car project unfolds.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:08 am

Some days it's nice to just have a small bit of progress.  Today I didn't have time to address anything big, but did make time to play with my car a bit.

The original front view .. right off the trailer and before any cleaning.
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It's amazing how dirty the headlight buckets can become.
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Starting to look better.
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Testing the low beams.
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Testing the high beams.
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New 8" H4 lights retracted.
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It's a bit silly to put them in now with so much work remaining before the car is anywhere near that standard, but they do look good.  One issue I discovered when testing my headlights is that my fog lights do not currently work.  One more task for the repair list, lol.  All in all, still a win .. I will no longer be telling myself "those headlights need to go" every time I look at the front of the car.

In case you're curious about the long gray hose trailing out the bottom of the car, it is there to channel the power steering fluid out of the return line and into drain pan.  But before I can start the car and flush the power steering system I will need to get a radiator back into the car.  I've pumped out as much as I can without the engine running.  As I said earlier, someone had put actual power steering fluid in the system instead of the correct Dexron ATF.  I've seen this happen on other cars, and the seals in the power steering rack usually go out in short order.  Hopefully I'll have flushed the system in time to prevent that problem here.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:26 pm

Hopefully the last of the parts needed for putting my fuel system together will be here by the end of this week.  I'll update once I have the bits in hand.

I've also been holding off on putting a thread together on the race car.  Honestly at this point all I'm doing is pulling out the interior and other parts I'm planning to keep or sell.  The lighting in the shop isn't all that good for pictures, so I'm not going to bother with any until there is really something worth showing.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:27 pm

erioshi wrote:...  Basically I've decided to see if the OE Porsche engine can be made to run with the returnless fuel system I will need for the swap.  If the change works .. great, if not then I will either go back to this set-up or just continue to move forward with my swap.  ...
I have reached a decision on what I am going to do about this.

While my initial research seemed to indicate that the C5 filter/regulator can provide the working pressures necessary for the fuel delivery side of my 928's Bosch CIS, the ~58 psi line pressure that regulator seems to deliver will be right at the edge of what's needed, and well below the ~72 psi the OE Bosch system was designed to use and reference through the WUR (warm up regulator - basically the mechanical device that manages the system's air-fuel ratio curve via system fuel pressure and vacuum).  It along with the mixture setting in the fuel distributor are what control the car's AFRs, and both components need to be working together for everything to function smoothly.  Changing any part of the system (like the fuel pump) can significantly complicate things.

If my priority was making the car drivable, I could go back to the return style set-up I was originally planning, but then I'll need to rework the fuel system a second time when I do install the swap.  Alternately I could revise my planned returnless design to temporarily fit the return parts into where I'm planning to mount the returnless components.  That would require spending money on parts I'm planning to discard in the future.  Both of these options would probably allow me to tune the current engine well enough to drive the car.  Of course doing either of these would also require me to obtain a set of CIS fuel pressure gauges to adjust the fuel pressures properly.  Basically all of this leads me right into buying tools and sorting out one of the systems that I really just wanted to avoid by doing the swap.

I think the real answer is to go forward with the returnless fuel system and see where things land.  If the car can be driven in and out of the garage, then I've achieved my originally stated goal.  If not then I'm still avoiding spending time and money making things work that I plan to remove anyway.  With either result I'm still moving forward and not putting any more time and money into a system that will eventually be removed.

Yeah, this is kind of a re-hash, but sometimes it's good re-evaluate and make sure my expectations are in line with the probable results.  I ignored CIS tuning and functionality when planing this project, and have only revisited it with the decision to possibly try and make the 4.5 live for a while until I pull it for the swap.  With most of the new components in hand, I have been digging a bit deeper into what I may be facing with the OE CIS system.  While getting the 4.5 running would be nice, it has never been a required project goal.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:57 pm

Earlier today I headed into the garage to start putting the new fuel system together.  I finally had everything on hand & it looked like I was good to go.  I did one final check of the required parts & discovered that my fancy fuel line repair kit was shipped with two 10' coils of 5/16" nylon fuel line, and no 3/8" fuel line.  It was too late to run for parts so I called it a night.

Luckily it looks like I can purchase 10' coils of Dorman's nylon fuel line locally without too much of a surcharge at O'Reilly's.  I found a four stores that list the product as in stock, all not too far away.  Looks like I'll pick up what I need tomorrow.  Hopefully I will be able to get back into the garage and finish things up this weekend.

Of course after the fuel line suprise, I also discovered that I still needed some new bolts & washers to hold all the shiny new parts in their new locations, too.  I suppose that's why I make lists...
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:29 am

Two thoughts from the weekend and a small task completed.

On Saturday morning a friend offered me a low mileage, 500+ whp LT1 with a 383 stroker kit and a number of other high performance goodies to put into my 928 for the bargain price of $1,500.  The LT1 was originally from a C4, and would have come with everything needed (except the 928 conversion parts) to just plug it in and drive.  It took me about two days to decide that as much as I wanted the power, I really wanted to stick with my original goal of removing weight from the front of the car by going with an aluminum block.  That said, the offer of that much performance for that small an amount of money really forced me to step back and think long and hard about what I wanted to accomplish with this project, and how committed I was to my original plan.  Quite a distraction.

Every time I though about putting the fuel system back into the 928, I always came back to not liking how the original fuel pump was mounted directly onto the access panel for the bottom of the fuel tank.  With the access panel off, the pump was left hanging by the fuel lines & electrical wires.  Since I was planning to move the C5 fuel filter into that area as well, it would have made for an even worse design.  Then last night I remembered that some 928s have an extra bracket in that area to support both the pump and a fuel filter.  Problem solved, lol.  I'll pick up a pit of scrap steel and fabricate a strap to support the pump and filter.  That will allow the fuel system bits to be assembled and serviced on the car just by removing the cover like a proper OEM design.  It's a small detail, but one that adds quality to the project.

I also bled the brakes and clutch over the weekend.  The fluid in the brakes looked almost new, so probably only a few years old with no real use .. like the rotors and pads, lol.  The clutch fluid was black and nasty, & looked like it hadn't been flushed in many, many years.  Done now, and the clutch pedal feels much better for it.  One thing I did notice was a bit of rust trailing down the front of the brake booster from the master cylinder .. like a leaky master cylinder would cause.  That said, the current master cylinder seems to hold pressures fine and feels very solid.  Hopefully this is a remnant from a prior problem and not an indication that I will need to change the master cylinder.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:15 am

Time to add some pics, this whole mess is turning into a giant wall of text.

Here's the short version of what's been happening:

Found out the race car's radiator was also bad with a very small leak when pressure testing the system.  Waiting on parts to fix my original radiator.  Going with a new end cap, seals & o-rings.  Aside from the radiator, it looks like the cooling system is otherwise finally good to go.  The pressure test process let me track down a number of small leaks that had been frustrating the prior owner.

A very handy funnel:
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Fuel tank strap is finally cleaned up and repainted and new closed cell foam padding had been attached.  It's ready to go back onto the car.

Before:
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After (not perfect, but better):
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Figured out that the combination of Walbro pump and C5 fuel filter will not quite fit under the fuel pump service panel for my OE 928 fuel pump.  Moved the fuel filter back into the fender well (like OE) and made a new mount for the pump.  Still need to finalize routing of the return line.  Replaced the OE fuel lines in the fender well with new 3/8 nylon line.  Replaced connections with GM style quick connect fittings for easy service.  Wrapped the line in closed cell foam protected with a thin metallic skin.  All much lighter than the OE parts that came out.

Cheesy new mount, cardboard template, and beat up original:
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New mount with Walbro:
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New mount on access cover with pump  (I know it's an awful pic, I'll try for better one when I can):
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Fuel tank has the new strainer installed, and I have a fuel line and reducer combination that will adapt the OE fuel outlet down to the Walbro fuel pump inlet size.

And finally:

Tail lights .. one of my OE lenses was cracked so I pulled the bumper and tail lights from the race car.  While the lenses were good on the race car, the housing were in really rough shape, with at least two busted studs (out of four) per housing.  Then I pulled the bumper & tail lights on my car.  While the housings are better, each of them has one failed stud, and there are some other minor condition issues.  Looks like I get to rebuild (or replace) the tail light housings.  Another small surprise, but well within expectations on a rescue project.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:06 pm

No pics but a small update.

New fuel system is in.  The Walbro fuel pump is located where the OE pump was mounted, and driven by the wiring for now.  The C5 fuel filter is mounted where the OE filter and accumulator were located.  The fuel return line runs from the new fuel filter down under the car alongside the line to the engine until that line turns towards the front of the car.  From there, the return line follows the OE return line's path back, up and over the suspension and through the valley for the return in the fuel tank.  The OE fuel return line will be removed when I do the engine swap.

The new parts all seem to be functioning correctly when tested, but no fuel is making it to the WUR.  So either a blockage after the fuel line, or the C5 fuel filter's 54 PSI is too low to let the CIS system function.  Not a problem and half expected .. at this point I'm done with the OE engine and moving on to collecting more parts for the swap.

Final thoughts on the fuel system:  To be honest, it would have been much easier to install the C5 filter in the engine bay, patch a line through where the OE fuel filter and accumulator were and re-use most of the original fuel system.  It also would probably have been much easier to use a C4 style filter with a regulator and fuel return at the fuel rail.  Both would have made for a much simpler installation, and probably would have saved me a couple nights worth of trying out different ideas while sorting out what would (and would not) work. That said, I chose my path because all of my rubber fuel lines were original and showing signs of wear and deterioration .. they needed to be replaced.  And I wanted to do a returnless system with the filter as close to the tank as I could get it.  And I wanted to play with nylon lines and quick connects.  It was a fair bit of extra work, but I'm happy with the result.

I will say that I'm very happy with the nylon fuel line and quick connect conversion.  The nylon line is a bit more difficult to run than rubber, but no worse than steel.  Tight turns like small 180 degree u-turns take patience, but can be done with a decent heat gun & some cold water.  Servicing is nice; everything clicks together (or apart) and the nylon has enough give so that getting things in and out is a snap.  Also the new fuel system probably weighs about 1/3 of what the old parts did.  I'm very happy I chose this path over doing AN fittings or reworked OE parts.

Radiator is out for repair with the new end tank I  purchased from 928s R US.  Fair price and fast service, I'm sure I'll be buying more 928 bits from them in the future.

Taillights are still waiting for me to repair and refurbish them.  Hopefully later this week; I need my project stall back.

<OT>
I need to get the new snow blower attachment and wheel weights mounted onto the lawn tractor and everything tested and prepared for the coming snow season.  Last year I used my old Craftsman 24" snow blower, a two stage walk behind with about 9 hp, and by spring it was having trouble throwing the new snow over the banks that it had built up along the sides of the driveway.  The tractor has 24 hp, so it should have no problem tossing the snow a bit further.  I'm surprised at how much more snow lands in the driveway at the new place than did at the old one.  At my old place, the Craftsman had no trouble meeting my needs, but at the new place it's struggling.  We had a couple of big storms last year drop enough snow that with using the old snow blower, it took over an hour to clear the driveway.  Hopefully the new set-up will cut that time by quite a bit.
</OT>

Updates are likely to slow down as this project goes into hibernation over our long winter while I collect parts.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:38 am

Looks nice.
Do you hear the pump louder as it seems that you did not put any rubber bushing to the pump mounting?

I am not sure what is the rate required for the K-Jetronic. I think around 5 bar should do it.(need to check this)

I have same issue with the rear lights and as it seems that the bolts cannot be replaced I tried "cheap and nasty" version first. I drilled hole where the original bolt was and put a bolt through it and then sealant so water does not inside the lamp through the hole. It seems to fit and when the bolts have very thin "hats" they dont even show through the lenses. This mean that I need to bolt the ligh cluters in first and then put the lenses on but that should be doable anyway.

I did this as my lenses and ligh clusters are otherwise in good condition but the bolts were rusted solid and snapped when I teared the car apart for my rebuild.

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:10 am

Hi Attes, nice to hear from you again.

I actually re-used the OE rubber mounts between my "dog-bone" bracket and the cover.  The Walbro is a tiny bit louder than the OE pump when in use, but not enough that I should be able to hear it with an engine running.  I had an in-tank Walbro in my Evo.  Even with almost no sound insulation and the fuel tank being located right under the back seat, the only time I was able to hear the pump was at idle.  And my Evo had a very quiet stock exhaust.  Being behind the rear fuel tank, and with the 928's insulation, I'll be surprised if I hear it at all.  The Walbro is also quite a bit smaller in diameter than the OE pump.

The fuel pressure is being limited to about 54 psi (about 3.7 bar) by the Corvette C5 fuel filter.  It acts as both a fuel filter and pressure regulator in the Corvette fuel system.  It's a great option when doing an LS engine swap, and is quite popular in engine swaps here in the USA.  With a price of about $35 us it is also very economical.  I suspect the output pressure from the filter is just too low to work with the CIS system.

I did leave the OE fuel return system in place for now.  This could allow me to test the CIS system with the Walbro and a conventional fuel filter that doesn't limit pressure if I decide to.  With the new quick connects changing everything to a conventional fuel filter and re-connecting the old return should be a 10 minute job.  I should try that out, lol.

I think I'm going to try to rebuild the damaged areas and cracks in my taillight housings with a plastic repair material.  I'll post some pictures of the repairs once I have time to do them.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:15 am

I think the filter is now the proble.

Just looked at some info and it seems (not 100% proof) that the CIS works with..

System Pressure:
System pressure, constant:
4.5 bar (65 psi)–5.2 bar (75 psi)

So if you filter is not letting out that kind of pressure there is not enough to open the injectors...I think.
Cheap test is to change the filter but good that you allready thought that over.

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:41 pm

I agree, the filter is probably restricting the fuel flow too much. I probably will try out an in-line filter this weekend.

And for the record, on a C5 fuel filter with built-in pressure regulator:

The 3/8" male quick connect line is the input.
The 5/16" male quick connect line is the return.
The 3/8 female quick connect is the outlet to the engine.

I'm only making a note of this because on my MicroGuard version (33737), the labeling for the inlet and return were reversed. I'm sure that hasn't helped my testing.

I became curious when researching straight inline fuel filters to test with my set-up. All of the V8 versions seemed to use a 3/8" fuel inlet. That lead me to doing a bit more research on my filter and finding out the labels were reversed. I did think it was strange to have a smaller inlet line than return.

I'll swap those two ends so they are on the correct lines tomorrow and see how things go from there.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:48 pm

Corrected the fuel lines and tried the car again.  It almost ran .. very close.  Then swapped to an in-line filter and the old return system.  While I expected that configuration to be even closer to running, it was not.  It was less willing to fire and when it did, it died more quickly.  And now after I put the C5 fuel filter back in place, that really will be the end of my playing with the original Porsche engine.

On to better things!
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:20 pm

And of course after I say that I'm done, and I have converted the filter set-up back to the C5 returnless system, I hit the key one more time .. just because .. and seemingly beyond all odds, the car actually starts.  Not only does it start, but it starts consistently and effortlessly .. time after time.  It will not rev correctly, and I'm sure the fuel pressures are all wrong, but the car drove out of the garage under its own power.  Hopefully I'm done pushing it for a while.

The running engine has allowed me to test out the transmission a bit.  The good news is it works in every gear, and seems to turn without excess noise or friction.  The bad news is that second gear may have a weak syncro, and the shift linkage wear items must all be completely shot.  Finding each gear is possible if you know where to look, but the shifts are more of a row and hunt activity than a solid gear change.  Earlier tests had indicated all the wear parts would probably need to be replaced, but I didn't want to spend money on them without some proof that the transmission was in working order.  Now that it works, I can think about output shaft seals and and linkage parts.

One surprise I wasn't expecting was a bit of a rumble from the torque tube.  It sounded to me like bearing noise, but considering the whole car has been sitting for years, I wouldn't be surprised if it just needs to be spun a bit to get the grease loosened up again.  If it does turn out to be the bearings, I'll replace them when I do the engine swap.  I was thinking about replacing them as a "while you're in there" job anyway.

The plan for Sunday?  I'm going to see what I can do about the oxidation on the paint.  I have a couple of clay bars and a mountain of car detailing chemicals.  Hopefully I can bring the finish back to the point where it looks more like an old car than a refugee from a salvage yard.  My expectations are not high, but I'd like to bring it up to an acceptable 15 footer.

One final note about the exhaust. This car sounds much more aggressive than my last 928. The exhaust looks to be stock, but sounds much deeper and more open and mechanical. I'm not sure what the differences are between the two exhaust systems, but this car sounds good.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:55 pm

I spent about six hours today washing, using the clay bars and cutting about 20% of the car's paint with a medium grade cutting compound.  I'm working the compound by hand because I can see a couple of small spots where it looks like someone has burned through the paint with buffer in the past.  I'm trying to go easy and hopefully not do any more damage where the paint has been thinned in the past.  Also where the paint is really badly oxidized, I've had to make two, three, and even four passes in places just to cut the paint down to where the color matches the parts of the car that came back in one pass.  I knew it would be work, but I wasn't expecting this much cutting, or needing to do it all by hand.  It's slow, tedious work, but I know if I take my time and get this step right, then the rest of the job should go smoothly and the final result will be something I'm satisfied with.

I had originally thought I would knock all of this out in a long afternoon with a powered buffer.  Doing all of this by hand is probably going to turn this into a project requiring several evenings.  At least the progress so far is encouraging.  While the badly oxidized areas are not coming back 100%, they are coming back well enough that car is starting to look (mostly) all one color.  Turning it into a passable 15 food paint job just might be possible.  Of course after I finish all the medium grade cutting I'll need to do a fine cut, and then move on to the sealant and polish.

I've been taking pics of the progress with each completed step.  I'll upload them when I have a bit more to show.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:45 pm

Still trying to save the paint. It's been a long, slow process, but I've finally been over the whole car removing the worst of the oxidation. I still have a quite a bit more work to do before I'm ready for a fine cutting compound or any polish, but at this point I think the paint will live.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:05 am

I think if the weather cooperates, I can finally be done with all the cutting and polishing this weekend .. hopefully.  I managed to get a good look at the car in proper sunlight today, and I've still got a bit of work to go.  I'm not there yet, but making progress.

I also did some research on the paint on my car.  This is all totally new territory for me, because I've never been much of a polisher or detailing fiend.  I've always been much more about function over aesthetics with my cars.  That doesn't mean I don't like a nice clean car, just that I've never obsessed over things like typical paint wear unless it's been really bad.  My Evo's nose had plenty sand pits from 160+ mph blasts down the front straights at Road America and BIR along with Brembos that had gone purple and brown from brake heat, and I just considered all of that hard earned proof of performance.  Now I'm catching myself considering bringing the paint and finish of this 928 back to almost showroom.  I guess I'd just like the car to be a very nice driver; no need to be perfect, but I'd like all the little blemishes taken care of.

So I mentioned doing some research on the paint.  From what I've read on rennlist and pelican, the paint on the solid color cars was typically single stage, while the paint on the the metallics is base coat / clear coat.  The manufacturer for the paint is BASF, and the line for the  single stage paint was Glasurit Line 21.  That specific line is no longer available, but was superseded by Glasurit Line 22.  The metallics were also a Glasurit (50-something) line that has also been replaced by Glasurit Line 55.  Both the Glasurit line 22 and 55 products are currently available.  Glasurit also has an online tool that can be used to enter a manufacturer, model, year and color code, and they provide a formula that can be used with their products to match the OE color.  Of course, taking a sample panel from the car in to their dealer can also be used to help fine tune the match with a spectrometer.  It turns out the the only distributor for this paint brand in my state is located just fifteen minutes away from my home.  An unexpected but convenient bit of luck, lol.

Here's the paint formula matching link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Here's the Glasurit main site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It turns out my car is MOCCABRAUN, paint code 451 9 2 also tagged as A5.  According to the Glasurite site, all they need is the 451 part of the number.  While my door frame sticker is worn, it is still readable.  I think that I will also bring in my hood to have it analyzed before ordering any paint for touch-up work.  The retailer asked for for a three day lead time to mix my paint, which seemed reasonable since I'm sure they get very little call for unusual blends of single stage paint.  Realistically, any serious paint work will need to be put off until next spring or early summer.  The overnight temperatures here are starting to get a bit cold for and paint and body work, even with the car being in the garage.  At least I now know I can take care of any remaining issues with what should be a very good match to the OE paint in both color and quality.

I'm also considering doing a bit more research into the Josef Zirkelbach and Design Plastic (DP) connection this car may have.  While I would like to know if this car does have a solid connection with DP, I'm torn about what to do if it does.  I bought this car to swap and drive, I never expected it might turn out to have such an interesting history.  I guess I may need to check that out next.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:30 am

Got bored with polishing & needed a break. Swapped the fuel system back to the OE return style and the car now starts and idles very nicely. Thinking about connecting a fuel pressure gauge, vacuum gauge, etc. and seeing if I can make the OE engine go for a bit while I gather swap parts. Original radiator should be finished with end cap replacement & swap (so it sits right side up) early next week.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:54 am

So here's a pictorial summary of the progress made so far with the paint:

The car as I first saw it in the prior owner's driveway.  The paint was heavily oxidized and looked even more faded in person than this picture suggests.
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The car with the paint as it was after I pulled the car off the trailer, before washing or any attempt to clean it up.
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The car after a very rigorous washing.  I was more concerned with removing as much of the embedded grime as possible over being gentle with the paint.
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The car after being gone over with a clay bar to remove what was left of the embedded grime in the paint. I did rinse the car after the clay bar process before taking this picture.
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And finally some pictures of the car after being cut with a medium cutting compound.  This was done by hand and required quite a few passes in some places to remove the worst of the oxidation.
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I still need to complete a fine cutting and then a polish and finally a wax stage, but the car is really starting to look better.

To really make the car right I'll still need a bit of professional help, but at least now I can really appreciate the car's original color.  I'm going to keep it Mocca Braun and not paint it as I had originally planned.  The color is a nice dark rich brown that is hard to capture in a picture.  the last picture is probably the closest to how the color looks in person.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  attes on Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:40 am

In those pictures it seems great. I like the color.

The car is not going to look like new anyway even when painting it (its still an old car) so it adds value (at least to me) to keep it original.

My car though has been allready re-sprayed so therefore I am sanding paint away.. (and the collision damage etc)

It would be fun if you keep the car looking like that and in some point swap a chevy V8.
Would surprise lot of people in traffic lights.

Though a working 928 with the original engine can still pull away from lot-of modern cars so it is a fast car in modern standars. Ofcourse not as fast as like new 911 but still beats lots of ricers..

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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:17 am

attes wrote:In those pictures it seems great. I like the color.

The car is not going to look like new anyway even when painting it (its still an old car) so it adds value (at least to me) to keep it original.

My car though has been allready re-sprayed so therefore I am sanding paint away.. (and the collision damage etc)

It would be fun if you keep the car looking like that and in some point swap a chevy V8.
Would surprise lot of people in traffic lights.

Though a working 928 with the original engine can still pull away from lot-of modern cars so it is a fast car in modern standars. Ofcourse not as fast as like new 911  but still beats lots of ricers..  
That is basically the plan. I'll properly restore the original paint, and have a bit of touch-up done, but have no plans to have the car fully painted. I like the original paint, and it seems to be in good enough condition to save. The car will be more of a survivor than a restoration. But of course it will have a Chevrolet engine.

What is new:

Finally have the original radiator back from the repair shop.  Bad end cap replaced, both end caps swapped, new rubber gaskets throughout.  My car will no longer be subjected to an automatic transmission radiator turned upside down, lol.  From what I can tell, it looks like the prior owner's mechanic (since the PO claims all work was done by his mechanic) substituted an AT radiator with cooler, and just inverted it and lengthened the leads to the temp sensor.  The repair guy flipped the core for me and re-located both end tanks correctly.  A bit of checking seems to indicate that both the AT and oil cooler radiators inside the end tanks are the same part.  Hopefully I'll get the radiator reinstalled this weekend.

Last week was a bit frustrating.  The problem is, I keep finding myself taking steps to work at sorting out the OE engine.  I think I'm just frustrated by there seeming to be no major mechanical problem, but the car still not running right.  I seem to have a very bad case of stubborn.  After spending pretty much all of last Thursday working on the car, I managed to make sure lots of things were working, but the car still runs very poorly.  A lot of time spent going "that tests good", but without tangible improvement.

I verified all of the mechanical timing .. crank, cams, and distributor.  Everything passed.  I verified all of the ignition, resistances, voltages, and even made sure the infamous "green wire" had proper resistance.  Everything passed except for ignition timing .. I can't rev the car to 3k rpms to set it properly.  I disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, and tested the WUR.  Control and system pressures all test good but the car still runs poorly.  I sorted through and corrected some prior, ham-fisted attempts at "tuning".  Examples include the idle screw being set very, very wrong and the ignition timing set way, way off.  I have not yet verified how the mixture screw is set, but need to mark it with a paint pen before I begin.  My old paint pen seems to have dried up.  I checked as much of the vacuum system as I could reach with the spider in place, and no reference values for proper vacuum levels.

Have I mentioned I hate old mechanical fuel delivery and ignition timing systems before?  Give me a modern ECU, laptop, a decent set of sensors & test equipment, and let me just verify readings and tap keys .. and make steady progress.  There's a reason I stopped playing with old European sports cars and moved to playing with the Japanese computer-controlled stuff.  I deliberately walked away from torturing myself with carburetors, needles, jets, seats, any form of mechanical fuel injection, ignition distributors, distributor weights and springs, vacuum advances, etc.  Even when it all seems to be working right, it never seems to feel as "right" as a properly working computer controlled engine.  For this reason alone, the OE engine in my 928 will eventually be dumped for a GM engine with a laptop interface.  I just want the pain to stop, lol.

Soon I will most likely either pull the valley assembly that controls fuel (including the fuel distributor), air metering assembly, and all of the vacuum lines, or just put on a final coat of wax for the winter and push it aside to work on other projects.  I'm leaning towards option two, but make no promises.  Like I said, I can sometimes be stubborn.
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Re: Another 928 rescue & swap thread .. considering an L33

Post  erioshi on Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:44 am

Has anyone else completely replaced the wiring harness in their car?  Not just the engine harness, but the entire body harness as well?

With so many 928s having wiring issues, and my car's wiring seeming to be mostly OK, but still showing signs of being a bit flaky, I'm tempted to completely replace the entire chassis harness based on one from a newer car.  I don't want or need the central warning system, and I can do without bulb warning indicators.  There are also a number of other areas that the wiring could be simplified.  I'm considering starting with a modern harness from another car, and adapting it to work with the 928.  I'm really not interested in chasing problems caused by failing wiring from 35 years ago with poor diagrams and an overly complicated layout.  I think the body harness in my Evo had about 1/2 the wiring contained in the harness of my 928.  I am pretty sure I have a full Evo wiring harness in a box on a shelf.  I do know I have a full body harness from an RX-7 FD on the shelf.  Hmmm. Something I'll need to think more on later.
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