HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Help choosing an engine for swap

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Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:35 am

I have an 86 N/A and the 4cyl is shot. I want to do a V8 swap simply to have a platform with more reasonably priced parts. I dont care about A/C, or even power steering.

I am having a hard time figuring out what engine I should get/build for this swap. LM7, L33, LS1? I have experience building engines and will have no problem sourcing parts and even assembling up from a bare block, but I need to know what I should be going with.

There is no time schedule for the build and swap. I intend to take my time and do it for as little money as possible. The end car is just a toy that will only be driven for fun on the weekend maybe once every month or two months. So for now I just need a little direction regarding the engine selection from some seasoned swappers. Smile

Thanks,
Hulk

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:30 am

I understand the difference between a LM7 and LM4, iron vs aluminum 5.3s is about 75-100lbs. Is it worth the extra money for that amount of weight savings?

What is the weight of the original N/A engine?

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  skywalker01 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:29 am

Hulk -
While there are at least several threads regarding this topic. The choice of engine is depends on several considerations that only you can make.
Cost
Performance
Availability of Parts (performance/repair)

I chose the LS1 because of the weight savings and ease of install. In the beginning the drive by wire setup had me worried, but now after performing the swap and driving it for the past 2 years I am happy I went that route. Depending on what you plan to do with your car after the swap will determine should also influence your decision. I currently autocross my car (with plans on tracking days), and having a heavier, iron engine up front may not give the desired effects (as always your mileage may vary).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that engine selection is just as personal as the color that you decide to paint your car after you make the conversion  Smile . Take your time and look at some of the other posts and see what others are doing and learn from their experience. Take that knowledge and bump your requirements up against that and make your decision.
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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Vorsche944 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:20 pm

Hulk

The answer to your open ended questions is....it depends. You have a broad range of option. The LS block is used in the 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 6.0 and so forth. The NA motor that died was putting down 150 HP and 147 TQ on a good day. The LS based motors put down significantly more.
GM numbers (examples)
4.8  LR4  270-285 hp  285-295 TQ
5.3  LM7 295 hp    335 TQ
5.7  Corvette 345 hp 365 TQ (1997)
     Camaro 305-325 hp 340 TQ (2002)

So comparing what you will have to what you can build, you are starting at being able to double your HP and TQ and go from there. The most significant difference you get with the V8 over the 944 is the amount of TQ you get at idle, almost 100%, so the car is crazy responsive at low rpm's.

So your build and engine choice should be what you want to have.You have lots of choices. I have an 87 Turbo with a 2000 Corvette LS1, stock and it is very quick. I have also driven a 5.3 and it feels great too.

Hope this helps2

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:46 pm

I guess what I was getting at, is what I should be looking for in a takeout for the easiest install. Power I am not worried about so much at this time as I know in the future if I desire more I can make plenty to roast my N/A trans with any of them.

I have recently learned that the car accessories are closer to the engine where the truck accessories extend further out from the front cover of the engine. Because of this I think I should aim to get a car engine takeout over a truck engine, though people seem to think their car engines are worth much more.  Shocked 

I might take it to autocross once or twice just for the fun of it, but no serious competition. Also the closest track to me is very far, so I wont be doing much of that either. Im just a car nut who likes to play around and go to car shows etc.

As a newbie to the swap I just thought that maybe one or two of the engine configs were a little closer to being "drop-in" ready than others.

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Vorsche944 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:58 pm

Hulk,

For the closes drop in, the 1998-2002 Camaro and Firebirds are one good choice

The 2004 GTO is a clean drop in too

by drop in, I mean still needs oil pan, spacers, and such.

The trucks extend a small amount, but it is not a clearance issue. You will need convert them to the F-Body brackets, intake, injectors and fuel rails, ECU, Wire harness. Not a big deal.

From a cost perspective, there are more low milage truck engines out there than 5.7 and 6.0 and they cost significantly less. The Truck conversion parts can run 1 to 1.2K. It is all about the choices you want to make for the design you want to have.

Hope this helps

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:07 pm

Thanks V, the cars you listed used the LS1 correct?  Laughing 

Will I be ok to use that with a stock N/A transaxle?

I am very well versed in EFI Live, in fact I tune with it for a living, and am excited to play around with this swap car.

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Vorsche944 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:29 am

Yes they use the LS1.
GTO's go fast on the market.

As for your transaxle. It depends on how you drive it.

I always like to point out that we are putting muscle car engines in a German sports car, and it is still a sports car. They are not straight line 1/4 mile dragsters, so if you are wanting to launch from light to light, the transaxle will not hod up long. Otherwise as long as you are in motion you should be ok as a daily driver. Hard track use or abuse is not a good thing for the NA's.

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:06 am

It won't be driven real hard or launched at all.

How about a 5.7l engine from a van? Seems I can get those about half the cost of the Camaro ls1's.

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  shokwave30 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:24 pm

try to stay with the aluminum blocks to keep it as light as possible. imho. like a few others said. ls1 out of a f body is the way to go. the y body (corvette) accessories are a little wide but still work or can be converted to f body accessories. I built my ls1 from the ground up but if i did it again it would be a running motor with a little freshening up.
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engine

Post  kevin924kevin on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:20 pm

Welcome, any alum motor will work its your choice. I chose the LS3 for the stock HP,( 430) I will be changing out my cam to the stock GM stage two, and this will bump me up to 480 without any changes to drivability this will allow me a daily reliable driver with all the fun one needs. The nice thing about the LS based engines, you can add extra HP with simple changes, and maintain the reliability and still have good fuel economy and plenty of fun.
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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Admin on Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:47 am

Kevin,
When you pull that cam, let me know , I would be interested in it!

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  docwyte on Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:34 am

You really need the F body (Camaro-Firebird '98-'02) accessories and accessory brackets to get the motor to fit well. As long as you have those, any LS motor will fit, but as others have said, it's best to get an all aluminum one.


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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Thanks a bunch all! I'm on the hunt for an engine! I'm trying to find one with harness and PCM included.

As far as going with wire vs cable throttle body, are any of the alum block setups OEM cable TB's?

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  docwyte on Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:15 pm

The Camaro/Firebird motors are cable throttle bodies.

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motor

Post  kevin924kevin on Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:58 pm

The LS3 is DBW i have heard no complaints. Eric, i will let you no when it is removed.
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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Hulk_Smash on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:37 pm

Now if only I can find one...  Very Happy 

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Re: Help choosing an engine for swap

Post  Vorsche944 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:09 am

A follow-up on the aluminum vs cast blocks. Yes there is a weight difference and lighter is better, however for a daily driver and occasional track car, the weight is not that much difference. You have to do nothing to the suspension.

The Cast Iron engine is about 60 lbs heavier than the Aluminum versions. So to put that in context I weigh 240 and if you weigh 180 that is the engine difference, or a gallon of gas is 6.2lbs per gallon so 9 gallons of gas.

For a daily driver the weight may not be as critical to your design.

I am not pushing the 4,.8 and 5.3, just putting context to the conversation.

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