Considering LS1 swap

I'm sure there is some bias here, but just wondering if anyone here regrets undertaking one of these swaps? My car is currently running and making decent power with a K27/8, but I'm always worried the motor could grenade at any moment.. and there's always an oil leak or exhaust leak, can't get rid of them. I guess I'm wondering if there's any more piece of mind once you've swapped in the LS1? Or am I still going to be dealing with stuff breaking on a regular basis?

I dont think you can go to wrong with the swap, with the wealth of knowelage and very well crafted parts from this forum, it is a win win, but your choice. I am just in the process of my build, but cant wait to drive.Good luck.

Supes 6,
I have done three engine swaps, a V8 into a MGB, a V6 into a MGB GT and now the C5 LS1 into the 944.
All three swaps were done on the basis of doing it properly, safely and looking right. From experience my final cost has usually come out near double my original estimate. The little things to finalise the swap like water and ac hoses, brake lines etc etc can add up real quickly. I do all my own work and only shop out the things I can't do like welding and machining.
My LS1 swap including buying the car for $2000 has run $12000 so far and that does not include the cosmetic work on the nose. It does include a full brake and suspension upgrade, Turbo transmission with LSD, A/C and power steering.
Wishing you luck with your project.

I have no regrets at all. My car is making great power and torque and runs reliably. I did a complete time trial season in it last year without a single failure. Showed up, checked the oil and drove.

Came in 2nd for the season, would've been first if I'd run Hoosiers or hadn't run my RA1's to the absolute cords. Turns out they lose 2 seconds a lap when they're basically finished.

My conversion was completed about 8 months ago, I done all the work myself and had a few small issues. LSX motors are very reliable but you need to either get a good used motor or build up a short block, this forum provides tons of information to get the conversion done right. Its nice to be able to put down 350+ RWHP without worrying about blowing your motor, I think reliable HP is one of the big attraction of this conversion. If you go the LS6 route you'll have about 405hp from a stock motor, add a cam and a good tune you can easily exceed 400 reliable RWHP, this puts 944/951 up there with super cars.

Good discussion that pertains to me also. I was in a similar situation as the original poster last year. I ended up rebuilding the engine last winter and am still having issues getting the car running right. Even after dumping a ton of money into the motor i am still dealing with minor issues that are driving me nuts. I ended up not making any track events last year as a result. This winter i am back in the same situation of wondering if i want to continue keeping this turbo 2.5L alive or not. I have to pull the head again and have a few other things i want to take care off such as rebuilding an engine harness and the upper balance shaft leaking. That means pulling the turbo..and while i am at it i have been thinking about going with a slightly smaller turbo. So as usual one thing leads to another. After all that, maybe i am better off putting my efforts into a LS1 or LS6.

Not sure why i am having so much trouble giving into the LSx conversion. I guess in some ways i actually like the stock motor and maybe ill miss the turbo related sounds. The big thing is i wonder if it makes more sense in my case to put the money i would have put towards a LSx swap and just buy a newer track car. Every morning i used to leave for the track with the 2.5L i always sorta wondered if the car was going to make it home that night.. does that feeling go away one you put in a LSx?

I think I'm hesitant because of all the little things involved with the swap.. you end up with things in different places, where they weren't tested. Also my car is just for the street, a lot of quirks that you would accept on a race car become problems on a street car. I'm actually tempted to just go with one of the truck motors and go totally shoestring budget on it, maybe even pick up a cheap N/A to use for the swap and keep the Turbo as it is. It's hard to tear down the engine when it's in perfectly good shape... I realize that's not the case for most people that do this swap.

supes6 wrote:I think I'm hesitant because of all the little things involved with the swap.. you end up with things in different places, where they weren't tested. Also my car is just for the street, a lot of quirks that you would accept on a race car become problems on a street car. I'm actually tempted to just go with one of the truck motors and go totally shoestring budget on it, maybe even pick up a cheap N/A to use for the swap and keep the Turbo as it is. It's hard to tear down the engine when it's in perfectly good shape... I realize that's not the case for most people that do this swap.

something you havent thought of (or realize), is how punishing the track is on stock vehicles. if a car can survive a season (docw) of just showing up and checking oil, that is amazing. i had a c5 z06 low mi vette that could barely do that, and it is designed for it. street riding is a pieceof cake, apart from conveniences (as you alluded to).

either way you win.

Techno, no I don't feel that way at all. The car ran perfectly all season, seriously, not one hiccup.

Supes, nothing really gets moved around. The swap has been done long enough that the path has been paved. All the parts you need are commercially available and there's a huge brain trust on this site.

I spent a ton of money trying to get my 2.5 to work, after it suffered catastrophic leak downs (without ever being on the track) I threw in the towel and got the LS1. I've never been happier.

My car makes 375rwhp and about the same in torque, runs on 91 octane street gas that I buy anywhere and has power everywhere. I easily keep up with my friends C5 Z06 Vette that has a shorter gear stack on the straights and I beat him under cornering and braking.

I also street drive my car, it's licensed and plated. I drive it around town and to and from the track, no issues there either.

I have to agree with Docwyte - I am way pleased with my conversion, and would be driving mine on the street (also registered for street use) if I wasn't tinkering around with some nits that I noticed toward the end of the autocross season. Despite my being a novice, the conversion allowed me to be more than competitive at all of the events I participated in - at least in the top 10 at each event (hope to do better this year).
My engine was in perfect shape when I started my swap, and have no regrets - at least now I can tinker around with the engine and not feel bad about the bank account balance, have instantaneous HP that puts a smile on my face, plus it is knda neat though to lift the hood for tech inspection and see the looks on some of the PCA guys' faces.

Spitting fire into the faces of 911 owners as I pass them on track is always fun too.

My wallet is much happier with me now that the swap is over, which means my wife is too. It was a large initial expense, but like Skywalker, it's just small, inexpensive projects on the car now and basic maintenance items.

Well, I'm pretty much decided. Going to start looking hard for a 5.7L engine now, and take the rest of the winter to freshen it up and gather parts. Think I can get anything for my turbo longblock with 194k miles?

supes6 wrote:Well, I'm pretty much decided. Going to start looking hard for a 5.7L engine now, and take the rest of the winter to freshen it up and gather parts. Think I can get anything for my turbo longblock with 194k miles?

If you are going the LS1/LS6 route, look for a complete motor with accessories (F Body, Camaro, Firebird), this will save you lots of money buying brackets, pulleys, E.T.C. I built up a short block and it was a pain getting all those bits and pieces.

With regards to your motor, you'll be surprised how good it may be. I removed my turbocharged N/A motor with 123k miles on it and the cylinder bores were perfect, I stripped it down and sold it to a local Porsche shop for $550, that money funded most of the conversion essentials.

Good luck!!

I got my motor complete from a 2002 camaro ss. I'd second the recommendation for getting an f body complete motor. I sold tons of stuff off my old motor, but no one wanted the block, pistons and rods. I did sell everything else though, which paid for more than half the cost of the swap.

That is the plan - 02 camaro motor and the kit from TPC. Does anyone have a good shopping list for this setup? It seems like there are some things missing from the TPC kit.

The things missing from the kit are what you can get on your own from summit, jegs or local speed shops.

Eric pretty much sells everything you need. Besides the motor and all F body accessories and bracketry you need to decide which bell housing to run, either the Corvette C5 manual tranny 2 piece bell housing or the Quick Time bell housing. If you use the QT one, it's a direct bolt on affair and you don't need an adapter plate. It also has an integrated scatter shield. However, it's heavier than the C5 one and it's 1 piece, which makes a clutch change a PITA.

Then you need headers, oil pan, spacers, Vehicle speed sensor kit, oil filter relocation kit, uprights, set back plates and motor mounts. TPC sells all that stuff btw.

Your next big decision is what to do with the master cylinder, whether you want manual or boosted brakes. For a street car I'd want boosted brakes, I have them on my race car and I couldn't imagine having manual brakes. That means either going with a hydro boosted setup or an electrically boosted setup. I have a hydro boosted setup from a Ford Mustang. BMW also has a hybroboosted master cylinder out there that people have used.

TPC can help with the hydro boosted setup, Eric is quite famaliar with it. Get the Turn 1 power steering pump for this conversion if you're going to keep power steering. Spec makes the clutch you need too.

Wow, I've been reading through all the old threads on here and I still can't decide between a 00-02 f-body LS1 or one of the newer 5.3s. There is a yard pretty close to me with 3 00-02 camaro LS1s, all very close to 75k miles for $2750.(have to wonder about the mileage) But then I can find L33s and LM4s with under 20k miles for around $1000. Is it worth it to pay the extra 1750 to get the extra stuff the LS1 comes with? I'm thinking that even if I bought the L33 and ended up spending another 1750 on extras, I might end up ahead since the motor would be much newer. Any thoughts? I'd be interested in seeing what you guys have actually spent getting the 5.3 engines to fit.

supes6 wrote:Wow, I've been reading through all the old threads on here and I still can't decide between a 00-02 f-body LS1 or one of the newer 5.3s. There is a yard pretty close to me with 3 00-02 camaro LS1s, all very close to 75k miles for $2750.(have to wonder about the mileage) But then I can find L33s and LM4s with under 20k miles for around $1000. Is it worth it to pay the extra 1750 to get the extra stuff the LS1 comes with? I'm thinking that even if I bought the L33 and ended up spending another 1750 on extras, I might end up ahead since the motor would be much newer. Any thoughts? I'd be interested in seeing what you guys have actually spent getting the 5.3 engines to fit.

Keep looking, they are out there. I got my complete LS1 for $1250. Just have to hunt for it.

FYI I purchased a LS1 from a C5 Vette, mistake....the vette accessories are mounted high and I had to buy F body items and mounting brackets. Buying from a F body simplifies things. Can't speak for the truck engines.

The 2004 GTO was a cable throttle LS1 and the accessories fit except for the A/C compressor, you would need a F-body unit.

Also forgot to add the Vette LS1 has a fly by wire throttle pedal and you need a cable Throttle Body.

Arthropraxis wrote:The 2004 GTO was a cable throttle LS1 and the accessories fit except for the A/C compressor, you would need a F-body unit.

That is good to know, I think I saw some reasonable deals on those around here. Just didn't think the accessories would fit.

What do the front end accessory brackets / usually cost from an f-body? I havent actually seen a set for sale even on LS1 tech (maybe i keep overlooking it). I have been looking around a little (more like window shopping) for an LS6 and most likely it will come from a C5 Z06.

I recently got a set from a guy on LS1Tech for $475 shipped PA to WA. It was the ps pump, alternator and tensioner with all the brackets and bolts.

BTW, I have ended up with an extra used ps pump bracket and a brand new alternator mount setup with pulley and bolts if anyone needs them.

Rich