944 Audi V8

Hi chaps, my name is Paul, a lifelong Toyota Mr2 nut, who has just bought his first Porsche, a lovely 944 S1 with some gorgeous Azevs, my alltime favourite oldskool wheel.

Here she is...

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So, i've been doing a bit of research over the past few weeks and heard a few of you say an Audi V8 into one of these would be nigh on impossible, well i'm going to try and make it a reality.

The LS1 swap holds no interest for me, i can appreciate the swap for sure, but i need to keep the Audi heritage strong in this one, plus i love the challenge, especially when i'm told it cannot be done.

This thread will eventually become my full swap diary, but i've only just bought the car, i'm going to enjoy it for a few months and then go all out to make the Audi V8 happen. That's not to say i haven't already started, i've just bought a 924 (audi fitment) bellhousing, an AHC variant Audi V8 engine and an RS4 bi-turbo spacer plate that sits between engine and bellhousing. I'll spend the rest of the winter parts gathering and planning for the swap in the Spring.

Throwing the tap measure on both the engine and engine bay shows me there are issues to overcome, but nothing i can't handle.

I'm hoping to be the first to successfully carry out this swap, not a bad first post ay!

Weclome aboard, alot of great info on this site. Good luck with the swap. Keep us posted on the progress.

Thanks Kevin, you're right there, i got lots of info from the site already, it's been a great resource so far. I usually do pretty indepth build threads on my projects so i'll keep the thread well updated.

Welcome!

Good luck with your swap!

Porch wrote:Welcome!

Good luck with your swap!

Same here...& looks like a 'C Reg' tag on the rear of your 944...IIRC that would be a 1987 MY.

-Tom

i saw that on ebay...to fit the audi you will need the 924 turbo b.housing,incase you had an n/a version...i also think as the engine is massive like the lexus im fitting you will have to cut the bulkhead back where the brake servo sits/used to...where abouts in uk are you cheers...

Welcome!
Definitely interested to see your swap progress.

Hi Tom, she's an 86.

beario wrote:i saw that on ebay...to fit the audi you will need the 924 turbo b.housing,incase you had an n/a version...i also think as the engine is massive like the lexus im fitting you will have to cut the bulkhead back where the brake servo sits/used to...where abouts in uk are you cheers...

I'm using the early 924 NA housing, from what i know it has a cable operated clutch, so i'll be going for a Tilton type internal hydraulic slave. I know Audi kept their bellhousing patterns the same (or very close) on every engine they built.

Yep no doubt it will need bulkhead mods, also chassis legs and strut towers will need attention, i'm under no illusion it doesn't actually fit.

I've also worked with the 1uz-fe a lot, that is about the same width as the Audi V8 but much longer front to back and also higher.

Just in case some of you guys might be thinking oh here comes another 16 year old troll behind a keyboard (god knows i see enough of those on our Mr2 forums) , i run Woodsport, you might just be able to see the agarge in the background of the pic, anyway i do nothing but engine conversions for a living, 99% of it is Toyota based, mainly Mr2s and Celicas, putting V6 engines in etc, roughly completed around 150 swaps in the last 10 years.

One of my biggest achievements was building a V8 Mk1 Mr2, using the same Audi AHC motor, A4 TDI 6 speed gearbox and a ton of fab work. I basically had a go because i was told it couldn't be done, here she is...

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Its first ever drive....

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A while later some hooning around....

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Needless to say the guy that said it wasn't possible doesn't say a lot these days lol

I'm based in Durham, you can check out some of my work here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (if that breaches any forum rules please remove)

So that's a little background on me and what i do, the 944 is a new challenge for me, it won't ever be a customer conversion and i won't be selling kit parts, it's my own personal project, right enough trumpet blowing, more research to do!

Build a mid-engine 944. The Audi V8 is only 19.75" long and mates directly to the 944/951 box.

thats interesting...should be an interesting build...

Looking forward to seeing this!

xschop wrote:Build a mid-engine 944. The Audi V8 is only 19.75" long and mates directly to the 944/951 box.

That's actually a pretty clever idea, it would be just like my Mk1 Mr2 V8 then, the only issues i have with doing it that way are i'd lose the 944 50/50 handling balance, i want to retain as much as possible of that, i can tell you a mid mounted Audi V8 setup just wants to break free everywhere, that Mr2 of mine is just insane, it has no useable power if that makes sense.

Second thing is i need the challenge of making this work in the front, it's too "easy" for me to chop the rear out and mount the V8 back there, i enjoy the challenge and obstacles of making something almost impossible work, otherwise it's no fun for me.

Love the idea you suggested though, if i were to ever do that i'd hang the OBX 6 speed off it like the Mr2 V8 has.

There are actually two of us attempting this at the same time, a friend of mine in the US is having a go on a track car, so we are pooling knowledge and parts etc on making it happen.

At this stage we both have Audi AHC V8 engines, bellhousings and 944s

Ok some cool findings, the Audi V8 flexplate fits nicely inside the 924 bell, this means i can use my Rs4 flywheel...

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Woodsport wrote:

xschop wrote:Build a mid-engine 944. The Audi V8 is only 19.75" long and mates directly to the 944/951 box.

That's actually a pretty clever idea, it would be just like my Mk1 Mr2 V8 then, the only issues i have with doing it that way are i'd lose the 944 50/50 handling balance, i want to retain as much as possible of that, i can tell you a mid mounted Audi V8 setup just wants to break free everywhere, that Mr2 of mine is just insane, it has no useable power if that makes sense.

Second thing is i need the challenge of making this work in the front, it's too "easy" for me to chop the rear out and mount the V8 back there, i enjoy the challenge and obstacles of making something almost impossible work, otherwise it's no fun for me.

Love the idea you suggested though, if i were to ever do that i'd hang the OBX 6 speed off it like the Mr2 V8 has.

I agree on that, keep the engine in the front and make it look like a factory installation. So when ignorants say: "The 944, isn't that the one with the Audi engine?", you can say "YES it is, see for yourself!!"

Yes that's pretty much my thinking behind the whole project, to keep it all Audi based.

Some good progress today, and some important findings.

My 924 bellhousing turned up so i was able to have a play with the V8 engine and the bell with spacer plate, it turns out the spacer is a 100% needed item on this project, there is no way to do it without the spacer.

This is the 924 bell...It doesn't have many holes on it, i was hoping most of these would hit the V8, but it turns out only 3 of them work
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...This is no good, also the bell sits too close to the flywheel like this, it needs that 11mm spacer ring to step it away, now the good news is here is the Rs6 spacer on the bell...

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We hit a few holes on the bell but when you put the spacer on the V8 it hits 8 holes instead of 3!

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This is awesome, so my plan is to weld the spacer to the bell, this will make a custom 944 V8 bell.

This is the bell and spacer bolted to the V8 in just two places to check it all works...

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At the top it needs the green area plating over and the red area removing to expose the 8th fixing point...

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So a decent amount of progress made, getting the bell/fly/starter and clutch all to work is a huge part of this swap.

man thats pretty good...do you think it will clear the bulk head with the engine on it,or are you going to reccess the bulkhead...

Nice job. Those pics confirm what I thought that the 944/951 trans will bolt right to the V8.
How deep is the 924 BH you have?
It wouldn't be to hard to use an old 924/944 trans and fly-cut and weld an adapter plate to get the depth you needed to clear the firewall.

beario wrote:man thats pretty good...do you think it will clear the bulk head with the engine on it,or are you going to reccess the bulkhead...

I really don't know at this stage, i am expecting it to hit, so if it clears that would be a huge bonus, but cutting it is no big deal.

This pic of a 924 with an Audi V8 sitting in it seems to suggest it clears, but two things here...

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1. Is the 924 engine bay/bulkhead area identical to the 944?
2. I don't know if that engine is bolted up to the torque tube or not?

I've seen it posted more than once that the Audi V8 won't fit, but i'm pretty sure i can make this work.

xschop wrote:Nice job. Those pics confirm what I thought that the 944/951 trans will bolt right to the V8.
How deep is the 924 BH you have?
It wouldn't be to hard to use an old 924/944 trans and fly-cut and weld an adapter plate to get the depth you needed to clear the firewall.

I'm not sure how deep the 924 BH is, i'd need to check that, at the moment i'm just nailing stuff together to see what works and what doesn't. I like the idea of moving the engine forward if possible to clear the bulkhead, but wouldn't making an adapter for more length mean my torque shaft won't reach the spigot bearing in the fly?

PB adapter and/or spacer between Torque tube and Bh will work too.

I'd love to use your idea of making a spacer to go between BH and torque tube, but i can't figure out how the torque shaft engages then? If i uncoupled it at the rear will the shaft slide forward to engage the spigot? This would mean i just need to make a longer coupler at the rear yes?

Or i could have a longer shaft made i suppose, does the shaft just run in bearings inside the torque tube? Nothing else special about it? Trying to establish if it will just locate anywhere within the tube or if it's stepped/circlipped somewhere.

If i can get past this issue i will use your idea and make a BH spacer to move the V8 forward clearing the bulkhead.

when xs chop did my lexus adapter,tt to b/h he inset the adapter on his machine so it gave the correct engagement on the shaft...im sure he will be along to clarify...
i would say thats the best idea,get a billet adapter plate made to mount tt to the audi bell housing,and then there is plenty of room and then use a hydraulic tob...

With any 944 swap using the torque tube you need to ask 2 questions....

1) What is bellhousing depth
2) What is the pilot bearing face to engine block face measurement

Then you figure if your BH needs to be chopped or adapter added from the 5.9" shaft dimension when the factory rear coupler setting is set to 49 mm.