944Hybrids: 924/944/968 and 928 V8 Conversions
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HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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» Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap
Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 03, 2021 9:50 pm by Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  matt889 Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:29 am

what height is ur garage ?

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:44 pm

Excited to see you're getting your project started. I hope some of my documentation will be helpful. There is so much good info in this forum and most folks are happy to help.

To answer your question, my garage has an 8 ft ceiling, but because of the garage door opener (and the car of course), I can only get the lift to about 9" above the first lock-off spot which gives me 41" under the car. To be safe, I'll be creating an intermediate lock-off spot. The 1st lock-off spot gives me 32" under the car which is not bad.

I too am waiting for the weather to be just a bit warmer so I can keep the garage door open... I need the room to work!
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Post  LStuner Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:04 am

Kiltacular Jim wrote:Let me tell you, this is an extremely timely return to your project -- I'm placing my order with TPC any day now and picking the engine up next week. Hoping to start tear down once it warms up enough to be in the garage as long as I need to be every evening. Sub'd for sure!


Get ready to wait. (Hopefully not as long as me). I have been waiting 7 weeks for my Manifolds, Fuel Kit, VSS Kit, and Brake Master.

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Engine Swap Begins...Finally!!

Post  Raymond-P Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:33 am

Not sure how 5 months just disappeared, but I have finally made some progress in the engine swap department.  Once I get the pics on my PC I'll begin sharing my engine removal adventure.  Hopefully in a day or so.  Stay tuned.

Below is the engine bay in stock trim...I guess it's my official "before" picture.

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Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Preparing to Pull the 2.5

Post  Raymond-P Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:49 pm

With the car in the garage and settled on the MAXJAX, I began the process of removing everything that connected the engine to the chassis or drive train. I photo documented all the parts before disassembling (for posterity), and after a few nights of work, the engine bay was fairly clear on the top side.
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On the bottom side, the exhaust system, starter, hydraulic clutch actuator, and torque tube must come off.

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Breaking the bolts loose was a challenge as expected, but the 24” handle from my floor jack is a great equalizer (torque multiplier).  Some liquid wrench didn’t hurt, especially on the exhaust bolts.

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The stock exhaust system sounds awesome and is for sale.  Contact me if interested.  

Supporting the engine with a lift unloads the torque tube and the cross-member bolts so they can be removed without the engine hitting the floor.  I had to make some adjustments to the lift points.

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Initial placement of the engine hoist revealed some alignment issues...

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Clearly the front bumper needed to come off.  Not a big deal.  Front cowl needed work so I took it off as well.

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Still not exactly the correct alignment but close enough that with a few small tweaks the engine and cross-member will soon be lowered. (Suspect Yes... that's the LS under the purple blanket

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Next post will be the empty engine bay!! Very Happy
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Extraction At Last!!

Post  Raymond-P Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm

The plan is to drop the engine and cross member out the bottom.  To do this, everything on the top side must be disconnected and there is a lot on a 944S.  The wiring harness is particularly difficult because the support connections are on the back of the engine and can’t be reached while it's in place.

I disconnected the harness from the ECM in the passenger foot well and pulled the connector through the firewall.  I disconnected as many harness support brackets on the engine as I could see and/or reach.  The remainder had to come off later.

Next, I set up the hoist for about 30 inches of drop.  

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I had already removed the steering rack and tie rod ends, and front sway bar, so next was the A-arm ball joints and removal of the A-arm rear mounting bolts (two each side).  

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Then I loosened the cross-member mounting bolts on each side, carefully watching for movement.

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I lowered the engine after the cross-member bolts were just about free, then I checked the torque tube to see how that was going.  Clearly I had a ways to go.

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With the engine and cross-member free, continuing to lower the engine revealed the drive shaft was still holding up the back of the engine.  This condition over rotated the assembly and jammed the distributor into the radiator cavity.  

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After raising the hoist back up to level the engine, a healthy pull forward was enough to clear the drive shaft.  Lowering was a piece of cake after that.  Having a helper would have been nice.

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All set to roll the assembly out from under the car but I needed to raise the MAXJAX about 8 inches more to do it.

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And the 2.5 is officially out (and for sale)!  It does need a new water pump, which is what started this whole adventure.

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Below are the empty engine bay pictures that have been years in the making…

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Lots of miscellaneous parts, hoses, and vacuum lines to remove and lots to clean up!!  Power brake booster coming off soon.  I’m in the market for a Ford Hydro boost and all the “fixins.”

Overall, little to no rust.  Yay!
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  smkn951 Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:17 am

awesome!!
I will be doing the same soon and your journey with this swap will greatly aid in mine.
thank you for documenting this.
BTW...Check out LKQ for hydroboost..I just picked one up used from a 2004 Mustang for $26.00, soon i will be buying the rebuild kit for it, i think it's less than 30.00.
keep the pictures and the adventure coming.
thank you
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Post  Raymond-P Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:47 pm

Thanks for the lead on the Hydro boost. I really need to research the swap so I get the right components. Is the 2004 Mustang unit the best fit? I would love a setup where I didn't have to relocate that back coil pack.

I'm also going to replace the torque tube bearings before installing the engine as I'm sure my factory units are shot after 103K miles. They have always been noisy since the day I got the car.
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Torque Tube Rebuild Update - Need Advice

Post  Raymond-P Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 pm

Perhaps a New Year's break!!

So I thought my torque tube had bad bearings because of the noise I remembered during the driving years.  Yes, I bought four new bearings in anticipation of the work and I researched the replacement procedure.

However, upon investigation with the engine removed, the 1st bearing is clearly visible and appears to be in excellent condition.  
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The driveshaft has no run-out, no lateral play, and turns smoothly by hand without noise.  The splines and nub look fine.
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Perhaps the noise I was hearing originated from a faulty throw-out bearing??  

In any case, I'm thinking now that I can move forward without rebuilding the torque tube, especially since the LS will not have the same vibration issues of the 2.5.

As always, consensus from the forum experts means a lot to me and I'm open to the comments/opinions from any willing experienced forum members.  Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  spence Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:57 am

When i had my car all apart, i rebuilt the torque tube. Its not bad.
It would be bad, if you got it all back together only to find out you have a unhappy bearing. The bearings may feel fine now, but when they heat up might be a different story.

If you do rebuild it, having the transaxle off the car will also allow to easliy adjust the insertion depth of the tip upon reinstall (critical). Something to think about!
spence
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Post  Raymond-P Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks Spense, I appreciate your input.

My 083D AGP transaxle will be coming out when I swap it for a 016R 5P transaxle from an '86 Turbo. Not sure of my timetable because I want to do the recommended 5th gear swap first.  Unfortunately getting a 5th gear from an '83-'85 016K QM (or 8Q) is a challenge.  Perhaps one of the 944 used parts dealers here in the US would be willing to swap 5th gears with me for a fee.   That would save wasting an entire transaxle just to get a gear, and several hundred dollars in shipping.  I also have a case reinforcement plate on order from TPC.

Moving forward, I might as well pull the transaxle now just to get a good look at bearing #4.

If #1 and #4 are both in good shape, is it even possible that bearing #2 or #3 could be damaged??  I just don't have any forensic experience with 944 torque tubes to know the failure signs or patterns.

I don't mind doing the work to replace the bearings but it would be nice if I didn't have to. Smile
Raymond-P
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Post  spence Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 am

I found my 5th gear brand new old stock on ebay. Keep an eye out on ebay or a forum like pelican parts or renlist. You can even make a want to buy post or want to trade. I think the 5th gear in the turbo transmission is the one the n/a racers want and you can sell it for a good amount.

If your torque tube has 100k miles you should just do the bearings. Your adding twice the power and relying on those 30 year old bearings that you already thought where noisy. Just cause a bearing looks fine from the outside doesn't mean much.
spence
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Post  Raymond-P Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:33 pm

Spence....you are so right!!  Who am I kidding, trying to save a little work...just being lazy I guess.  Embarassed
I'm going back to Plan A and will replace the bearings.

I've seen loose NOS gears on eBay but I do not know the part number I need.  If you can share that with me that would be great!!  I haven't researched this yet but do I need to swap syncros too?

I did a little more checking and the NA 944 transaxles sold in North America that have the 37:27 (0.7297) 5th gear ratio are as follows:
016K QM 944 (1983-1985)
016K 8Q 944 (1983-1985)
016K 5S 944 (1985.5-1988)
016K 7V 944 (1985.5-1988)

Good to know about the 5th gear demand too.  Probably need the correct Porsche PN for it as well.

The gear I will have available after the swap is from the transaxle below:
016R 5P 944 Turbo 1986 With Oil Cooler Standard
5th gear is 35:29 (0.829) Final Drive Ratio 8:27 (3.375)
5P 25026 (Code 5P, Manufactured FEB 25, 1986)  

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I guess I should get the word out now on the gear and the 944S transaxle, even before I make the swap.

The complete transaxle I'll have for sale is as described below:
083D AGP 944 S 1987 No LSD  About 103,000 Miles.  As is.  No known problems or leaks.
1st 10:35 (3.500)
2nd 17:35 (2.059)
3rd 25:35 (1.400)
4th 29:30 (1.034)
5th 35:29 (0.829)
Rev 12:42 (3.500)
FDR 9:35 (3.889)

Thanks again for being the voice of reason in my time of need. Very Happy
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Back at it…Finally!

Post  Raymond-P Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:38 pm

Hi Folks!!

So about 16 months ago, I completed removal of the stock engine and was all amped up to get my LS-1 motor installed.   However, there was much work to do including engine bay clean-up, tracking down a hydroboost power brake setup, rebuilding the torque tube, and swapping out the transaxle with an upgraded Turbo unit.

What ultimately happened was COVID-19 craziness, and I got all caught up in preparing for retirement… and what I mean by that is a multitude of “house projects.”  With all that behind me, I’m moving forward in earnest to complete my Porsche project…targeting the end of May.  Yes, this May… Laughing

What I have accomplished is rounding up most of the remaining parts I still needed, and I’ll share those details in my next post.

I’m pretty sure many of you that have a LS conversion project in progress have passed me up.  I’ve seen a few on the forum and I’m looking forward to reading them all.
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty TPC Hydro-Boost Kit

Post  Raymond-P Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:19 pm

As mentioned, here is the 1st installment of my parts round-up over the past year.

After much research regarding power brake options, I settled on the TPC Hydro-boost Brake System Kit.  At first, I was determined to maintain the LS-1 coil pack locations just so the engine looked good, but in the end, for street use and occasional track use, function and reliability became more important.  One other little thing, I wasn’t keen on reinventing the wheel!  Many folks have been down this road before and it only makes sense to take advantage of that learning curve.

I’m sure there are less expensive ways to accomplish the same result, but I’m so far in now, I just want to get quality parts that I know will get the job done.  Kent at TPC fixed me up, and knowing that it’s all tried and true gives me peace of mind that’s hard to put a value on.

944 Hydro-Boost Brake System Kit Contents:
• Modified HB unit
• Firewall Plate
• Hoses and fittings
• Side Manifold for pressure out and return line
• Adapter block for 944 Brake Master Cylinder  

12/2019 TPC Price: $799.00 plus $37 shipping to PA.

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Note the TPC transaxle case steel reinforcement plate.  More on that in a subsequent post.

Before I install my "reconditioned" drivetrain, the Hydro-Boost will go in.  I'll document that procedure in a separate post.
Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Torque Tube Bearings

Post  Raymond-P Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:24 pm

So… I’ve committed to rebuilding my torque tube since it has 103K miles on it and seemed to be making some noise.

This first step was to find out what exactly I was getting into.  Many of the forum experts have indicated that this is not a particularly difficult job provided you have the correct tools and the proper guidance.

Once again, documented forum advise abounds and has given me a good understanding of the procedure.

Another great resource is the Clark’s Garage web site:
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For this application, Article TRANS-05, Torque Tube Removal, Rebuilding, and Installation is just the ticket, and can be found in the “Garage Shop Manual” section.

The Clark’s Garage article provides the procedure for removing the torque tube (Note: This includes removing the transaxle and rear suspension assembly), plans for making the necessary bearing extractor/installation tool and complete details about the replacement bearings and driveshaft bushings you will need.  The factory bearing designation is FAG (Schaeffler) 6006 2Z (shields on both sides)

Below is where I found the parts I needed.  Once again, prices are painful.

944 online
Torque Tube Bearing Kit
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Current Price: $149.95
Bearing Brand & Designation SKF 6006-2RSJ
Decoded: 60=single row, extra light, deep groove ball bearing, metric/06=bore size code, 6 mm x 5 = 30mm inner bore / 2RS=rubber seal both sides / J=steel cage
SKF Factory Description - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Garage9 (British Columbia)
Torque Tube Bearing Sleeves (25mm ID Delrin Bushings)
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Current Price: $33.00 x 4 = $132 CAD (~$107.00 US)

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Below is the SKF bearing designation decoder that I used:

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Lastly, I needed to round up hardware to build the bearing extractor/installation tool defined in the Clark article.  It helps to have a brother-in-law in the fastener/thread bar business.  Except for the thread bar, heavy washers, and heavy nuts, the rest was scrap material, but he does have mad fabrication skills if you ever need anything custom.  

Check out their website Baden Steel Bar and Bolt - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Last edited by Raymond-P on Mon May 10, 2021 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Delrin sp.)
Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Transaxle & Torque Tube Removal

Post  Raymond-P Thu May 06, 2021 11:17 pm

The engine bay is empty, and the next order of business is to remove the torque tube (TT) and rebuild it.   However, there are some significant obstacles.

At first, I was under the assumption that the TT could be removed from the back of the car after removing the TA. I followed the procedure described in the Clark’s Garage Article TRANS-03, Transaxle Removal and Installation which can be found here:
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I apparently didn’t read the procedure closely enough because in order to remove the TT, the transaxle and the rear suspension cross member must first be removed.  This is because the TT traverses the top of the rear suspension assembly and has a rather large rear housing that connects to the transaxle. Even with the TA removed, the TT housing is too large and cannot be lowered enough to be passed by the fuel tank.  More on that later…..

Here are some pics of the TA removal process:

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<Shifter Connection>                                                                                           <Shift Rod at TA>

1. Remove the shifter leather boot, rubber boot, and shift knob.  Then remove the retainer clip to release the shifter rod that goes back to the TA.  This is a good time to also remove the shift lever and mounting plate from the TT by removing the two (2) 13 mm attachment bolts.

2. Separate the shifter rod from the TA shift linkage by removing the 13 mm set bolt and pushing the shift linkage as far back as possible while pulling the shift rod forward.  Access the shifter rod through the shifter console opening and rotate it 180 degrees (pointing down) so that it can be moved forward until it no longer passes through the TA and TT housings.  I removed mine altogether because the TT was coming out.
             
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<Drive Shaft Extension 6 in>

3. Measure the projection of the driveshaft beyond the TT/bellhousing mounting plate. Mine measured just shy of 6 inches.  This dimension is critical to a proper pilot bearing interface and must be checked against the available dimension afforded by the C5 bellhousing and TPC adapter.  I’ll address this in a subsequent post.

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<Drive Shaft Coupler - Access Port>                                          <Drive Shaft Coupler - Access Port2>  
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<Drive Shaft Recess>

4. Remove the rubber access port covers and disconnect the drive shaft coupler/clamp by completely removing both 8mm Allen head bolts. Note that the drive shaft projection is controlled by the machined recesses in the TT driveshaft and TA main shaft that provide clearance for the coupler bolts.

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<Drive Shaft Coupler>                                                                                 <Axle Shaft Removal>

5. Once loose, slide the coupler all the way back in the TA housing so that the drive shaft is free.

6. Disconnect the axle shafts from the TA and zip tie them to the rear suspension cross member to protect the CV boots and keep them out of the way.  You will need an 8mm triple square spline bit socket (cheesehead) to remove the 6 axle shaft connection bolts on each axle.  Note, a “star” bit or universal bit will not work.  I upgraded my tool inventory with a decent bit set via Amazon for under $20:
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Plenty of parts clean-up in my future….

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<Axle Shafts Down>                                                            <Torque Tube Bolt and Speedo Sensor>

7. Remove the housing bolts that connect the TA housing to the TT housing.  There are 4 bolts total, 3 are 10 mm Allen head bolts, and one is a 17 mm hex head. (blue arrow)
As seen in the photo above on the left, the 17 mm hex nut and the lower passenger side Allen head bolt have a hex nut.  The top two Allen head bolts do not have a hex nut and thread directly into the TT housing.  Be sure to disconnect the wire lead to the speedometer sensor on the driver’s side and the reverse light switch on the passenger side.
I elected to drop the TA with the TA support bracket attached so I was able to remove all the housing bolts without concern.
   
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<Fuel Filter and Line>                                                                      <TA Support Bracket Removal>

8. Remove the fuel filter and fuel line below the TA support bracket, then loosen the 17 mm bolts connecting the TA support bracket to the frame.  Support the TA with a suitable jack (I borrowed my buddy’s transmission jack) and remove the bracket bolts.

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<Trans Jack>                                                                                                   <TA-TT Separation>

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<TA Drop>                                                                                            <Shift Rod Plastic Sheath>

9. Lower the TA tilting it back slightly at first to clear the spare tire well.  I made the mistake of placing the trans jack sideways under what I thought was the TA center of gravity.  I was way off and needed to support the TA tail with my floor jack.
Be careful not to break the plastic shift rod sheath (PN: 477 711 765)  It’s marked with a blue X in the picture.

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<TA Support Bracket Hanger Connection>

Once the TA was dropped, it was clear that the TA support bracket hanger was attached on the passenger side by 2-13 mm hex bolts.  The bolt heads are concealed in the driver’s side of the TA housing.  Leaving the TA support bracket on the car is an option when dropping the TA.

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<AGP 5P TA on the Stand>                                        <Steel Housing Sleeve at Allen Bolt Locations>

The extracted AGP 944S TA is in the foreground and the replacement 5P Turbo TA in on the engine stand.  Upon examination, I did notice that the AGP had embedded steel sleeves present in the TA housing holes for the Alan head bolts that do not thread into the TT housing.  These sleeves were not present in my 5P TA.   Perhaps these are items that are typically coupled with the TT.

The next step is removing the rear suspension cross-frame in order to pull the TT….. Coming soon!!


Last edited by Raymond-P on Thu May 06, 2021 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Caption location adjustment)
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Transaxle & Torque Tube Removal – Part 2

Post  Raymond-P Sun May 09, 2021 2:47 am

Ok…so the AGP TA is out… YAY!! Reusable parts that still look good but need cleaned up include:  
• TA support bracket and connection bolts
• TA support bracket hanger and hanger bolts
• Shifter rod and pointed locking bolt
• Shifter rod housing
• Shifter rod housing sheath
• 2 - steel TT housing sleeves
• 3 - Allen head TT housing connection bolts (and one hex nut)
• 1 – hex head TT housing connection bolt and nut
• 12 - Triple square head axle bolts
• 6 – Crescent washers
The shift linkage on my substitute 5P TA looks to be in good working condition so I don’t plan to swap that.  I’m also planning to retain the 5P speedometer sensor because the final drive ratio in the 5P is different than the AGP (3.375 vs. 3.889 respectively). Ref: Clark’s Garage Article TRANS-04, Transaxle - General Information, Codes, and Gear Ratios.  Considering that both TAs use the same 5th gear set (35:29), the ring and pinion set must be different.

Sure enough, upon checking my 85-88 Porsche Parts Catalog, the 5P ring and pinion is 8:27 (27/8=3.375) while the AGP is 9:35 (35/9=3.889).

Vehicle Speed Calculation

Using the 5P with an FDR of 3.375 and my street tires (Pirelli CintuRato P7 225/50 R16 92W) the distance travelled per 1 RPM of the engine = 1/3.375 or 0.296 RPM of the tire.  According to TireAmerica, the tire turns 832 revolutions per mile or 6.346 ft per revolution (5280/832).  That’s a little off from using the advertised tire diameter of 25 inches times π (pi) to determine the tire circumference which would be 6.542 ft (25in / 12 in/ft x 3.14) and result in only 807 revolutions per mile.

So, using the TireAmerica value, 1 RPM results in 1.88 ft/minute (6.346/3.375).  At 1.88 ft/min/eng. rev, 3000 RPM engine speed results in a vehicle speed of 5640 ft/min (1.88 x 3000) or 64 mph (5640 / 5280 ft/mi x 60 min/hr).  If I used the calculated circumference based on πd (6.542 ft) the vehicle speed at 3000 RPM would increase to 66 MPH.

That’s about what I was used to in my ’71, 340 6-pack ‘Cuda with 4:10s and H60/15s in the back.  I can attest that 3000 RPMs is excessive when just cruising down the highway, and 10 MPG was not very good… but gas was less that a buck a gallon in those days even for premium.

In summary, the gearing seems OK for track days, especially because I’m planning a dedicated set of track tires on my original 944S 15in. rims.  However, taller tires in the rear for street cruising would probably make sense.  The early NA 5th gear swap is still an option at some point.

OK, on with the TT removal….

The engine has been out for a while now.   I removed the TT support bracket, exhaust hangers, the shift rod, and the shift lever/mounting plate.  The only thing I could see preventing TT removal was the rear suspension cross member.  I found it physically impossible to lower the TT housing enough to clear the gas tank shielding and the spare tire well with the crossmember in place.  No amount of rotation made any difference.  

Note that a 180-deg. rotation is required when only “lowering” the rear suspension crossmember is the approach of choice, and you have a TT with “dog ears” (blue arrows).  This is because the dog ears will catch on the crossmember AND the TT/bell housing mounting plate is rectangular and only fits up in the TT tunnel when in the 0- or 180-degree positions.

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<TT ready to come out>

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     <TT Dog Ears>

I followed the Clark’s Garage Article TRANS-05, Torque Tube Removal, Rebuilding, and Installation, to completely remove the rear suspension crossmember.  
This began with removal of the lower shock bolts, rear brake discs, ABS wiring, rear brake calipers, end sections of the rear brake lines, hand brake shoes, and the hand brake line.
Note that after removing the retainer clip, the ABS lead can simply be unplugged from the caliper.

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<ABS retainer clip>     <ABS connection to Caliper>    <Pin & Clevis connection of Hand Brake Cable>

The hand brake cable was a challenge because it was nestled in between the suspension crossmember and the “seat well transverse strut” as defined in my Porsche parts catalog.  It was impossible to see what was going on up there.  At the wheel end, removing the pin and clevis connection freed the cable.

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<Exhaust Hangers (Yellow), TT Support Bracket (Green), Hand Brake Cable (White), Transverse Strut (Blue)>

Next, I lowered the MAXJAX and supported the rear suspension with rigid jacks.  Then I removed the suspension connecting bolts identified in the Clark’s Garage Article.    Then I simply raised the vehicle off the suspension assembly.  It took a bit of prying because of the tight fit, and the assembly must be kept level, or it will bind.   Once the suspension was partially lowered, it was clear the hand brake cable was connected to it with slotted clips. I removed the slot clips and pulled back the cable boots so the cable itself could pass through the slotted hole mounting tab on the suspension crossmember.

Once the hand brake cable was free of the suspension crossmember, I could raise the MAXJAX and lift the vehicle off the assembly.

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<Rear Suspension Down>

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<Seat Well Transverse Strut>

The Seat Well Transverse Strut was easily removed by disconnecting 4 – 17 mm hex head bolts.  This was the last supporting element under the TT and my buddy helped me support the TT while the final bolts were removed.   Finally, the TT is free!!

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<Drive Shaft Removal>  

A six-foot length of ½” galvanized Schedule 40 gas pipe has the perfect ID and OD for pushing the driveshaft out through the bearings.

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<Drive Shaft Removal, 50% and 100%>

A 10 lb. sledge moved the driveshaft nearly 2 inches per blow with minimal effort.  Bearing locations are clearly visible as polished rings on the drive shaft where it was turning inside the factory bushings.

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<Bearing Push Disc at TA end>

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<Thrust nut at Engine end>

I greased the ¾” thread-rod with synthetic wheel bearing grease and assembled the thrust plate, push disc, washers and jam nuts for bearing removal out of the front (engine end) of the TT.  
I centered the thrust plate on the TT flange plate and used vise-grips to hold it fast.   A helper (or locking mechanism) is needed to hold the thrust nut from turning while the jam nuts are being turned counterclockwise.  Using an impact wrench worked well for bearings 1 and 2 only.  The increased resistance added by bearings 3 and 4 resulted in unintentional removal of the drive/jam nuts.  BTW, if you use heavy hex nuts like I did, you will need a 1-1/4” socket… I went out and bought one.  

To complete the job though, I had to use my 15 in. Crescent wrench with a 13 in. length of 1 in. dia. pipe as a torque multiplier.  Trust me, you’ll need it!!  When the bearings were visible at the TT flange, I installed 2x4 spacers to allow room for bearing removal.

After more turns than I care to mention, the bearings were all out!

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<2x4 spacers> < All 4 bearings removed>

I wanted to find one or more of the bearings destroyed, but they all appeared in good shape with little or no apparent wear.   The only suspicious condition was some light rust on the metal race seals.
The stock bearings were FAG (Schaeffler) 6006-YB made in Germany.

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Next post…new bearings and Delrin bushings.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Transaxle & Torque Tube Removal – Part 3

Post  Raymond-P Thu May 13, 2021 10:24 pm

With the stock bearing carriers extracted from the TT, the next step is cleanup and reconstruction.

In my April 29th post, Torque Tube Bearings, I identified the replacement components:
• SKF 6006-2RSJ bearings (944Online)
• Delrin inner bushings from (Garage 9)>

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<TT Bearings and Delrin Bushings>

Examination of the TA end of the TT revealed surface rust inside the TT and on the splines of the driveshaft.  Some rust powder was evident on the inside of the housing and on the coupler.  It was clear that water was finding its way in and perhaps the coupler was not tightened properly.  Fortunately, there appears to be no section loss due to corrosion on any of the parts.

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<Rust in TT at TA end>                                                            <Rust on Driveshaft Splines>

The steel bearing carriers in my ’87 are the late model one-piece units, each with a ribbed vulcanized rubber coating, all in good condition.  The inner rubber bushings were staked in place within the bearings and looked fairly good.  However, they did have some wear as the driveshaft was apparently rotating within the bushings as evidenced by the polished ring on the driveshaft (Position 3 and 4 marked with orange arrows).  

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<Driveshaft polished by bearing bushing>

The old bearings pressed out easily using a hydraulic press and a 32 mm impact socket which fit well inside the back of the bearing carrier (Open side).  When pressing in the new bearing, I flipped the carrier over and used a heavy 50 mm diameter conical washer to evenly distribute load without putting any pressure on the bearing seals.

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<Bearing Removal with Press>
 
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<Bearing Installation 1>                                                                     <Bearing Installation 2>

Next the Delrin bushings need to be inserted.   This step is simple but requires some thought as to the orientation of the bushings, so they stay put when mated with the driveshaft.  The orientation of the factory bushings has the flange side on the open side of the carrier which faces the front of the vehicle.  
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<Factory Bearing/Carrier #1>                                                <Bushing-Bearing-Carrier Stack>

This orientation allows the bearing carriers to be installed from the rear of the TT with the driveshaft in place, without the risk of dislodging the inner bushings.  Installing the carriers from the rear of the TT does risk displacing the bearing from the carrier if there is too much resistance between the Delrin bushing and the driveshaft.  IMHO this seems unlikely.

The Clark article suggests installing the carriers from the front using the all-thread set-up, and then pushing the driveshaft through the bushings.  This approach presents no risk of dislodging the Delrin bushings however, if there is too much resistance between the Delrin bushing and the driveshaft, the entire carrier may move out of position within the TT.  There is no way to tell if this happens.

I plan to install the Delrin bushings in the same orientation as the factory set-up to honor the Porsche engineers’ logic…whatever that might be.   For the carrier installation, I like the idea of installing the carriers on the driveshaft and driving them into position with a 2-inch ID PVC pipe.  I added a splice coupling to increase the OD to better match the carrier diameter. This approach assures the bearing carriers are where they belong.  Below is my proposed installation plan:

1. Place carrier #4 on the driveshaft in its designated position and install the assembly in the TT from the rear using the PVC pipe.  Support the front of the driveshaft in the TT so it is centered.
2. Visually confirm that the bearing did not come out of the carrier at all. Position #4 is close enough to the end of the TT to do this.
3. Set the driveshaft position in the TT based on the required coupler position for clamp access
4. Check the required extension length beyond the front flange for the LS-1 swap.  This should already be correct based on the thickness of the TPC conversion plate. (More on this later.)
5. Brace the driveshaft at the rear end (housing) to prevent backward movement
6. Place carrier #3 on the driveshaft and pound it into position using a mallet and the PVC pipe with a drive disc configured to support the Delrin bushing without transferring load to the bearing race. (More specifics coming on this once I get the disc made.)
7. Repeat Step 6 for carriers #2 and #1.

I'm still undecided on whether to lube the Delrin bushings as I believe they should have an interference fit with the driveshaft.  FORUM COMMENTS WELCOME!

I will be using a unique rubber lube for the carrier installation that ultimately cures and keeps the carriers where they belong.  Specific brand name later.

In the mean time, I've sand blasted and repainted the TT, and I've started clean-up of the 5P Transaxle.

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...more coming soon.  I'll be installing the rebuilt bearing carriers in the TT next Tuesday.

BTW...the housing in the pic above is still just high temp gray primer.  Final color will be silver engine enamel.


Last edited by Raymond-P on Thu May 13, 2021 10:37 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Typos)
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Torque Tube Rebuild – Help Needed

Post  Raymond-P Sat May 15, 2021 11:28 pm

Hi folks, I need some expert input from those of you that have been down this road already.

I’m concerned that my new Delrin bushings fit too loosely on the driveshaft.

Some Background:

In my April 29th post, Torque Tube Bearings, I identified the rebuild components, where I got them, and how much they cost:
• SKF 6006-2RSJ bearings (944Online)
• Delrin inner bushings from (Garage 9)

In preparation for installation of the new Delrin bushings, I did some measuring of the driveshaft and bushings and got the following results:
• Driveshaft 24.95 mm OD (at original bearing locations and everywhere else)
• Factory Bushings 24.95 mm ID
• New Delrin Bushings 25.10 mm ID (same as specified in the Clark’s Garage article)
                                 30.10 mm (body)
• New 6006 Bearing 30.00 mm ID

I was originally concerned about the orientation of the bushing flange to prevent dislodging them during installation of the bearing carriers.  This was a valid concern considering the measurement of the factory bushing ID, as there is indeed a friction fit between the bushings and the driveshaft.

A quick physical check confirmed that the old factory bushings are tight enough that they cannot be placed by hand on the driveshaft.  

This is NOT true for the Delrin bushings which can be placed manually and easily slide along the length of the driveshaft with no resistance.  The new bushings clearly have an interference fit with the inner race of the new bearings, which means the bearings only function when the bushings are turning.

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<Factory Bushing 24.95 mm ID>                                               <Delrin Bushing 25.10 mm ID

Since the Delrin bushings do not have an interference fit with the driveshaft, I no longer have any concern about dislodging them during installation.

However, my concern now is… how long will the Delrin bushing last with the driveshaft turning inside them instead of with them???

Perhaps there is some compression of the bushing ID when they are installed in the bearing… I have not checked that yet.  

Any insight is appreciated.  TIA!!


Last edited by Raymond-P on Tue May 18, 2021 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Revised title)
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Delrin Bushing Update

Post  Raymond-P Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm

OK folks, I went ahead and pressed a Delrin bushing into one of my new bearings and the ID changed to exactly 25.00 mm.   Recall that the original ID was 25.10 mm and the driveshaft OD is 24.95 mm.

Another test fit confirmed that the bushing still rotates freely on the driveshaft although it doesn't take much resistance now before the bearing race actually turns when the carrier is rotated.

It seems that just a slight increase in the driveshaft diameter would do the trick... perhaps one or two coats of a high build paint (IE zinc rich primer) would do the trick?  

I'm open to suggestions!

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  ptkorson Thu May 20, 2021 8:07 pm

Are you simply trying to get the delrin to not spin/beyond hand tight?

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Thu May 20, 2021 8:14 pm

Yes.  Just enough to be sure the bearings are actually turning vs. the driveshaft just turning in the delrin bushings.

Stay tuned... I took a step forward based on advise from Garage9, the folks that made the bushings, that is covered in my next post.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Torque Tube Rebuild – Part 2

Post  Raymond-P Thu May 20, 2021 9:56 pm

This past Tuesday was productive, but I was still unable to complete the TT rebuild as planned.

I did move forward using my Delrin bushings with some driveshaft prep as recommended by Garage9. Below is the email I received from Garage9 when I inquired about the bushings being loose on my driveshaft:

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Mon, May 17, 12:13 AM (1 day ago)

Hi Ray,

Yes, there seems to be some variation in driveshaft thickness. Porsche just used some thin rubber over the steel fitting to accommodate.

The shaft is long and heavy so actually will rest on the bushings and they will spin the bearings. Acetal is a super tough plastic so no worries there.
You can use/smother some gasket maker or silicone in the area of the bushing to replicate what the stock fittings do.

Regards
Paul Jager

I was happy with the prompt response from Garage9 and based on their history of rebuilding 928 torque tubes, they have credibility in my book.

It turns out my 944S driveshaft measured slightly smaller than the spec 25 mm.  The best solution would have been to order custom sized bushings after knowing this.  Too late for that know.

Following Paul Jager’s advice, I experimented with Permatex, PermaShield Fuel Resistant Gasket Maker and Sealant to see if it would create the necessary anti-spin resistance between the Delrin bushing and the driveshaft.  It is extremely tacky, non-hardening and viable up to 500 deg. F.  

I put the Permatex on the driveshaft and used a bushing to form a perfect ring of material that was 25.10 mm in dia.  I let that “cure” overnight and then passed the aforementioned completed carrier over the area 2 times and the material stayed in position as hoped, even with the compressed 25.00 mm Delrin bushing.  Moreover, when the bearing carrier was over the Permatex treatment, the bushing remained fixed and the bearing rotated on the inner race as intended.  That was the result I was looking for!!  Yay!!!

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      <Permatex in Place>                                                             < Shaping with the Bushing>

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        < Finished Surface Film>

The pics are at bearing location #4 and the Permatex film is thin and almost clear.  Other locations were thicker and notably blue.

Checking the driveshaft projection

Before installing the driveshaft and bearing carriers, it is MANDATORY that you know the exact driveshaft projection to fully engage the crankshaft pilot bushing.

I defined the projection as the distance from the TT flange to the end of the driveshaft nub.  Recall that I measured the factory projection to be 5.9 inches +/- prior to pulling the TA.

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<Factory Projection>                                                              <Driveshaft / Input Shaft Coupler

This factory projection is a function of the driveshaft/TA input shaft mechanical coupler.  One end of the coupler clamps on the TA input shaft using a M10-11 Allen head bolt that passes through a half-moon shaped spline gap machined into the main shaft.  The gap radius matches the bolt so there is very little play. However, at the other end of the clamp, there is a rectangular spline gap machined in the driveshaft that is about 3/8” wide at the bottom, and it provides just a shade less than ¼ longitudinal play in the connection.   The driveshaft Allen bolt is accessible through a dedicated port in the TT housing.

In summary, the driveshaft can move longitudinally approximately ¼ inch in the mechanical coupler with both the Allen bolts in place and hand tight.   This allows for some “built-in” adjustment capability for the driveshaft projection.

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  <TA input shaft Half-Moon Spline Gap>

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  <Driveshaft Rectangular spline gap>

With the TPC conversion kit, I was confident that the C5 bell housing adapter plate was machined to the required thickness to accommodate the factory driveshaft projection.

However, I found myself compelled to measure the distance from the mating surface of the C5 adapter plate to the face of the LS-1 pilot bushing, to make absolutely sure I would have full engagement of the driveshaft nub once the TT was attached.  Doing so would confirm what the driveshaft projection should be.

External measurements were easy enough:
• C5 Bell Housing 5.760”
• TPC Adapter Plate Flange 0.615”
• TPC Adapter Plate Boss 0.381” (Interference fit inside of TT flange)
• Nub Diameter 0.589”
• Nub Length 0.406”

The critical dimension is the distance from the TT mating surface with the TPC Adapter Plate, to the face of the pilot bushing.  Since I already assembled my clutch, pressure plate, bell housing, and TPC Adapter Plate, I used a 3/8-inch drive, 3/8 inch socket and some extensions to make a measuring tool.

The socket has a reduced diameter end (0.550”) that fits inside the pilot bushing (0.588) but will not go all the way through.  To determine where the face of the pilot bearing was, I needed to know how deep the socket was going into the pilot bearing before the radius of the socket surface hit the face of the pilot bearing.

To accomplish this, I marked the socket with a black Sharpie, set my calipers to 0.589” (the nub diameter) and “etched” a mark on the socket (see pic).  The distance from the end of the socket to that mark is 0.375 inches and identifies the face of the pilot bearing relative to the end of the socket.

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          <0.375” Socket Insertion>

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          <TPC TT Boss>

Driveshaft Projection Calculation

My external point of measure was the face of the TPC Adapter Plate boss.

Measuring Tool Depth          6.187” (end of socket to face of boss)
- TPC Adapter Pl Boss          0.381” (thickness)
- Socket Insertion                0.375”
+ Nub Length                      0.486”
Driveshaft Projection 5.917 inches

For my LS-1 set-up this is the driveshaft projection that will fully engage the pilot bearing.  Considering my factory driveshaft projection was just shy of 6 inches with the TA connected, the TPS Adapter Plate thickness was about spot on.

Next up, some actual progress installing the new bearings and test fitting the TT.


Last edited by Raymond-P on Sun May 23, 2021 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 3 Empty Torque Tube Rebuild – Part 3 - FINAL

Post  Raymond-P Sun May 23, 2021 12:53 am

Torque Tub Connection Test Fit

After confirming the required driveshaft projection, I turned my attention to doing a test fit of the empty TT to the TPC Adapter Plate.

First, I set the TPC Adapter Plate connection studs with some blue Loctite and snugged them up hand tight with an Allen wrench.  Then I put some Permatex anti-seize on the adapter boss and attempted a test fit.

Unfortunately, as noted by others in the forum, the TT was not cooperating as the flange mounting holes were not exactly concentric with the tube.  This would have been a major complication during installation when under the car.   I simply drilled out the flange mounting holes to 15/32 inch and chamfered the front edge a bit too.   Perfect fit now!

Note: Oversized TT mounting holes present no problem since the boss on the TPC Adapter Plate is effectively an interference fit within the tube and assures the TT is centered on the Adapter Plate.

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<Drilled out TT Flange>

Bearing Carrier Surface Prep

The next step was to clean out the interior of the TT.  Mine seemed to have plenty of debris and or old factory lube inside but nothing that didn’t come out easily with some high flash parts cleaning fluid (like Braklean).

I wrapped cut strips of an old towel around a 2”x2” furring strip until the OD was about an inch bigger that the TT ID, and then zip-tied the wrap in place. The furring strip was easy to hold and rotate as needed.

I sprayed a generous amount of parts cleaner inside the TT and on my new “swab.”   A dozen or so cleaning strokes later, it was shinny clean and ready for the bearing carriers.

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<Cleaning Swab>                                                                                          <Clean TT interior>

Installing the Bearings

So far, the driveshaft projection is confirmed, the PermaShield is strategically placed and cured on the driveshaft, and the TT is clean inside. The next step was to proceed with installation of the bearing carrier assemblies.
Once again, my college buddy (retired Industrial Engineer) gave me a hand with the installation.  I have to say, his input on process was always beneficial!

1. First, I installed the remaining 3 Delrin bushings in the bearings.  Recall that for bearing #4, I oriented the bushing flange facing forward (open side of the carrier) as it was going in from the back of the TT.  For the remaining 3 I used the factory orientation with the flange facing back as they were going in from the front of the TT.  The open side of each carrier faced the front, same as the factory orientation.  The 1-1/4 in. ½” drive socket I purchased for cranking the thread rod nut made the perfect bearing support from behind.  The bushings were easily tapped in with a rubber mallet.

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<Bearing Carrier Line-up>

2. Next, I used blue painter’s tape to mark the precise bearing carrier locations on the PVC pipe based on the driveshaft wear marks.  I had to match this exactly because this is also where the PermaShield was in place.

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      <Work Table>

Note:  In hind sight, now would have been the time to lube up the TT.

3. We installed bearing carrier #4 from the TA end of the TT.  After sliding the carrier on the driveshaft, the carrier ribs were lubed with an industrial temporary rubber lubricant called P-80 Rubber Lubricant Emulsifier and the driveshaft was inserted into the TT.  I wrapped a red shop rag around the nub end so as NOT to scratch the TT interior wall.  With the 2-inch PVC squarely on the carrier and a small 2x4 driving block in place, a 10 lb. sledge hammer was used to drive the carrier into position.  The driveshaft was temporarily supported and centered at the flange end of the TT.  This is important to prevent canting the bearing carrier which dramatically increases driving resistance.

Note: The P-80 lubricant had apparently lost its advertised properties and provided little if any lubrication.  Fortunately, the carrier only had to be driven in the TT 4-1/2 inches.  It was slow going…. but doable.

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<Installing Bearing Carrier #4>


Once carrier #4 was set properly, the driveshaft was adjusted longitudinally within the bearing until the correct projection at the front of the TT was achieved.  Coincidentally, (or perhaps by design), this placed the back of the driveshaft exactly flush with the TA end of the TT.

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<Driveshaft Projection – 5.9 +/- Target>    

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<Driveshaft flush with TA end of TT>

4. With the driveshaft projection set, it was necessary to block it from moving backwards during placement of the remaining carriers.  Two 2x4s bolted to the TT housing and 2-2x4 block spacers did the job perfectly.  As seen in one of the following installation photos, my house did an admirable job of preventing any unwanted set-up movement.

5. Bearing carrier #3 was next but not before the TT was lubed with Sil-Glyde. After the experience with carrier #4, installing the bearing carriers would be nearly impossible without functional lubricant inside the TT.  Sil-Glyde is recommended for rubber components and worked perfectly in this application.  My buddy reminded me that we should NOT get any lubricant on the driveshaft (or bushings) which was accomplished using the cardboard “lube shield.”  I recommissioned the ½" gas pipe (used initially to drive out the driveshaft) as a lube swab shaft and wrapped it with a small length of towel.   The mushroomed end and some zip-ties held the towel in place. The TT was then sparingly lubed (as per product directions) to the position of carrier #3 with plunge lines in the 4 quadrants of the TT.  The flange bolt holes are the perfect guide.

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<Sil-Glyde and Swab>  

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<Cardboard “Lube Shield”>

After applying more lube on the outer ribs, bearing carrier #3 was started in the TT with a mallet and driven home with the PVC pipe and 10 lb. sledge hammer.  Only the pendulum action of a 3 ft +/- arch was used.  This produced an average travel of about 1” per blow.

6. Repeat the Step 5 lube and drive process for bearing carriers #2 and #1.  The driving got easier with each consecutive carrier installation.

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<Bearing Carrier #3 Started>

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<Bearing Carrier Installation Set-up>

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<Bearing Carrier #3 In Place>

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<Bearing Carrier #1 In Place>


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<Bearing 1 Spin Video>
Video Link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Once all the bearing carriers were in, bearings #1 and #4 were checked visually and the bearings are turning as planned when the driveshaft is rotated. Turning effort is solid and completely silent!

7. Rebuild Complete…do a Happy Dance! Very Happy

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< Completed Rebuild>

Total Work Effort (to the best of my recollection):

1. Remove Transaxle                             3 hours +/-
   Includes Fuel Line & Filter
2. Remove ABS, Brake Lines, and           2 hours +/-
   Parking Brake Cables
3. Remove Rear Suspension                   3 hours +/-
4. Remove TT support bracket,               1 hour  +/-
   Exhaust Hanger, Foot Well Brace,
   and TT.
5. Remove original bearing carriers         2 hours +/-
   (Includes hardware set-up)
6. TT Inner Wall Clean-up                       1 hour  +/-
7. TT Exterior Media Blast & Repaint        2 hours +/-
8. Bearing Carrier Rebuild                       1 hour  +/-
   Clean-up, New Bearings & Bushings
9. Bearing Carrier Installation                  1 hour  +/-
                                                 TOTAL 16 hours

Total Cost
1. New Bearings                                        $149.95    Plus Tax
2. New Delrin Bushings                              $103.80    Plus Tax
3. Aluminum Oxide 70 Grit Media (50#)      $53.00      Plus Tax
4. High Temp Primer & Enamel (2 cans)       $16.00      Plus Tax
5. ¾”x10,6ft Gr55 all thread, Heavy Nuts,    $50.00     Plus Tax (Estimate)
   Washers, Flange and Pull Plates
6. Wheel Bearing Grease for Thread Rod      $3.00       Plus Tax
7. 2" Schedule 40 PVC Pipe & Coupler           $10.00     Plus Tax
8. Sil-Glyde for Bearing Carriers                  $7.80       Plus Tax
                                                  TOTAL    $393.55   $417.16 (PA 6%)

If rebuilding your torque tube is not something you want to do, there is always the option of having a shop do the work.  Below is an option that is popular:

Black Sea R&D (Option*)
     Rebuild Fee - Black/Silver Powder Coat       $275.00
     Super Bearings – (4)                                 $780.00
     Shipping to GA (~$100 each way +/-)        $200.00    Plus Tax
                                                      TOTAL   $1255.00    $1330.30 (PA 6%)
* Estimate Only.  See: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I also found this $700 (Plus shipping) option using traditional bearings on the Internet:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now on to the 5P Transaxle clean-up…….


Last edited by Raymond-P on Mon May 24, 2021 7:49 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Text Edits, Added Working Bearing Pic and Video Link.)
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

Posts : 100
Join date : 2013-06-29
Age : 65
Location : Beaver, PA

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