HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

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Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:08 am

The car is SOOO close to being a reliable driver right now that it hurts. I am still having issues shifting though, and I want some advice as to where to start looking.


- The clutch pedal adjustment rod is extended so that there is very little slack between the pedal and the forward stop/sensor.
- The throwout bearing is gapped to .05" at rest, and I am getting about .65" of TOB travel as measured by calipers. Mcleod minimum to disengage the clutch is .50".
- I can see slight daylight between both sides of the clutch disk when the pedal is fully engaged.
- Whether at rest or with engine on, 2nd gear and revers are extremely difficult to engage. When running, 2nd gear will not engage at all into the gate, and reverse will let me into the gate, but grind pretty harshly unless I try and reach through the floor with the clutch.
- All other gears engage properly with minimal fuss and a slight delay to enter the gate.
- clutch engagement is maybe 3" off the floor.



I am leading myself to believe that it is either a bad trans altogether or that I am not getting proper clutch travel (like it needs to be engaged more). I believe I am fully bled, I've pushed gallons through it with the rear end up, no air.

My questions- Could the driveshaft be settled TOO FAR forward so that it is making contact with the pilot bearing adapter behind the bearing, thus causing the DS to continue spinning during clutch engagement? It's almost as though it feels like the DS is still spinning even with the clutch engaged.

I was also thinking of shimming the TOB another .0625" to buy me slightly more travel during disengagement.

I have another trans coming, but I want to be sure to rule out ANYTHING else that may be the culprit before I rip into this thing. I'm driving this car 1100+ miles here in less than 2 weeks to a car meet, so I need to make sure the damn thing is running like a top.

Thanks guys,
Paul
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splines

Post  xschop on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:35 am

you could be looking at the wrong splines. Maybe the Pressure plate splines are not extended enough. this can happen with a refurbed pressure plate where the splines have lost their tensile strength....JAT
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:43 am

the pressure plate is brand new though. Are you saying that the PP splines have to be a specific length based on application and disc/flywheel combination? I bought everything together, so I would imagine they would have mated me up properly. I could be wrong, however.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  xschop on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:45 am

If you have a thinner composite disk or a refurbed PP or an aftermarket PP that is shorter, you can run into problems. I also saw that you have an LS6? arent the cranks drilled with 8 flywheel bolts? I have never personally checked the crank end to block/BH mating surface difference to know if there is a difference there or not between the LS1 6 bolt hole crank, but have wondered.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:40 am

I don't have access to an LS1 to measure the difference. I do know that the bolt config and Crank side of things looked identical between the LS1's and LS6's that I looked at. That would be a rather easy problem to fix via shimming, however, so maybe I'll try it and see what happens. The worst that can happen is I take the shims out and go back to square 1.


I'm not off by much, this I know. The 2nd/reverse gear problem still bothers me though.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  xschop on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:36 pm

Could be a tranny sync ring maybe. But if yo go shimming the Flywheel make sure that the starter engagement is not affected.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:16 pm

I was just planning on shimming the TOB a little bit closer to the PP. If I'm only off <1/16", I think this would be my best bet.

I'm picking up a 944NA w/lsd trans tomorrow as well. I found one locally for a decent deal.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  coctostan on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:06 pm

Here is a post on LS1Tech about shimming: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Also, the only differences between the LS1 and LS6 motors are the heads and intake.

My money is on it needing a shim.

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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  Admin on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:41 pm

Do you have the metal plate between the bell housing and motor? (dust shield) I am not sure if the LS's have them , Iknow that my LT1 does and it makes a difference of the total bell housing distance, which in return would effect the clutch throw. Also when I had my 5 speed in I also used the hydraulic throw out bearing and had a lot of trouble until I removed the assist spring on the peddle.

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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:13 am

Admin wrote:Do you have the metal plate between the bell housing and motor? (dust shield) I am not sure if the LS's have them , Iknow that my LT1 does and it makes a difference of the total bell housing distance, which in return would effect the clutch throw. Also when I had my 5 speed in I also used the hydraulic throw out bearing and had a lot of trouble until I removed the assist spring on the peddle.

The dust shield is set up differently on the LSx motor- it is not a sandwich plate style, but rather bolts into the bottom half of the bellhousing.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  gt1scca on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:09 am

golfduke wrote:...- The clutch pedal adjustment rod is extended so that there is very little slack between the pedal and the forward stop/sensor.

I am leading myself to believe that it is either a bad trans altogether or that I am not getting proper clutch travel (like it needs to be engaged more)...

...I was also thinking of shimming the TOB another .0625" to buy me slightly more travel during disengagement.

I have another trans coming, but I want to be sure to rule out ANYTHING else that may be the culprit before I rip into this thing.l
Paul,

Tighten up the pedal adj. rod first.
Also, get that pedal spring out.
Got the flywheel torqued down correctly? (not being sarcastic, but the LS is very particular there...)
If these don't help or alleviate the problem, THEN question the syncros..and about shimming the T/O bearing-that will only overheat the seal internally, and lead to failure of the slave.

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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:14 am

gt1scca wrote:
Paul,

Tighten up the pedal adj. rod first.
Also, get that pedal spring out.
Got the flywheel torqued down correctly? (not being sarcastic, but the LS is very particular there...)
If these don't help or alleviate the problem, THEN question the syncros..and about shimming the T/O bearing-that will only overheat the seal internally, and lead to failure of the slave.

- Will do on the pedal adjustment rod.
- The pedal spring is already gone.
- I torqued and lock-tited both the flywheel and pressure plate to the recommended spec as well as series.
- Noted on shimming the TOB any. I'll try and take up as much slack on the pedal adjustment rod as I can and see what happens.

Thanks for the help guys...
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  gt1scca on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:35 am

I'm trying to find the spec on the pedal adjustment...Too tight and you may over-travel the T/O.

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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  944-LT1 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:48 pm

For the shifting into gear part and getting away from hydraulics....

1)Did you space the crossmember at all or any other mounts that could "clock" the transmission in anyway?
2)Did you fill the tranny with motor oil, gear oil, transmission oil, or manual transmission oil?
3)Have you checked the linkage at the top of the transmission for wear or damage?
4)Have you checked the plastic cup bushing on the bottom of the shifter and a big one is have you checked the metal dowel pin on the shifter itself that attaches to the shift rod?

1) spacing the engine on one side for whatever reason causes the entire drivetrain to "clock" which could cause problems shifting. Not likely if say 1/4" or so but as an example, when I first did the conversion, I spaced the drivers side engine mount just less than 1/2" and afterwards could NOT shift into reverse...the shifter would get bound up on the shift boot hole.

2.) Swepco is a transmission lube that actually has a grit additive to aid the synchros to "bite" onto the conical part of the gear. This helps in engagement. If its say gear oil, its very slippery and the synchros can sync. Try changing the lube to swepco (porsche's recommended lube?).

3.)The linkage at the top of the tranny wears and may bind itself and cause shifting problems. Dont try and force the shift though, you could easily bend the shift rod or worse break the shift forks. Crying or Very sad

4)the plastic cup bushing on the bottom of the shifter wears and causes erratic shifting. It makes for sloppy shifting. The dowel on the side of the shifter, after time, will wear to the point that the end of the dowel goes conical on yo ass as well as the point were its welded to the shift lever. That causes the shift rod to be really sloppy and selecting reverse really hard. I had that real bad and replaced the cup bushing and lever and now shifting is crisp and fast.

None of these may be your problem but should be checked if shifting into gear is a problem.

Have you tried double clutching? If you can shift into gear easily after double clutching, its you sychros and you should first try swepco. If not, then maybe stick to hydraulics.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:27 am

944-LT1 wrote:For the shifting into gear part and getting away from hydraulics....

1)Did you space the crossmember at all or any other mounts that could "clock" the transmission in anyway?
Engine was done using RH crossmember drop. No spacers or shimming were required. It is perfectly symmetrical.
2)Did you fill the tranny with motor oil, gear oil, transmission oil, or manual transmission oil?
haha, here's the thing- When I bought the car last year, it had been sitting for nearly 2 years due to a clutch problem. When I got it home, the trans-axle was completely void of any fluid inside. Not one drop. I filled it as per Clarks-garage's recommendation with Mobil-1 synthetic 75w90 gear oil. It hasn't leaked a drop since. I was thinking of changing it again and seeing if I could sift any filings, it's on my list...
3)Have you checked the linkage at the top of the transmission for wear or damage?
Another possibility. I am using the deutche-9 short shift kit. The throws are STUPID short. I was planning on putting the stock linkage back on this week, but mother nature is not cooperating on this non-garage owning hybrider...
4)Have you checked the plastic cup bushing on the bottom of the shifter and a big one is have you checked the metal dowel pin on the shifter itself that attaches to the shift rod?
I replaced the entire shift rod and bottom bushing with an OE unit before I started the swap last year. I currently do not have a shift boot, and can tell you that it is not hitting the shift boot hole.

2.) Swepco is a transmission lube that actually has a grit additive to aid the synchros to "bite" onto the conical part of the gear. This helps in engagement. If its say gear oil, its very slippery and the synchros can sync. Try changing the lube to swepco (porsche's recommended lube?).
I'm going to change it next week and add swepco as per your recommendation.

4)the plastic cup bushing on the bottom of the shifter wears and causes erratic shifting. It makes for sloppy shifting. The dowel on the side of the shifter, after time, will wear to the point that the end of the dowel goes conical on yo ass as well as the point were its welded to the shift lever. That causes the shift rod to be really sloppy and selecting reverse really hard. I had that real bad and replaced the cup bushing and lever and now shifting is crisp and fast.
I was aware of this already, which is why I completely replaced the shift lever. It was bad when I took it out.

Have you tried double clutching? If you can shift into gear easily after double clutching, its you sychros and you should first try swepco. If not, then maybe stick to hydraulics.
Can you enlighten a noob on what double clutching is? Be gentle with me :p
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  944-LT1 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Have you tried double clutching? If you can shift into gear easily after double clutching, its you sychros and you should first try swepco. If not, then maybe stick to hydraulics.

Can you enlighten a noob on what double clutching is? Be gentle with me :p

Sure. See, in the old days, many transmissions didnt have synchros at all! You were required to do this thing; double clutching.

Heres the Wiki for it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Good way to diagnose your synchros. I had my second gear synchro go but was still useable when double clutched.

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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:20 pm

ok, I'm so damn close I can taste it. I adjusted the clutch pedal out as much as I could without putting pressure on the master at rest. It solved most every problem I have with engagement. 2nd still sucks a bit, but it engages after double clutching. Thanks a ton 944-LT1 for that, you are the man. REverse is fixed, however, and it is definitely driveable. Now I just need a tune, and to find a spare trans so I can get my 2nd gear issues sorted for good.
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Re: Still need guidance with a shifting issue...

Post  golfduke on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:47 am

Got it all figured out now. The answer was-

A lot of the above.

1) The short shifter sucked. It increased the leverage on the trans to uncomfortable proportions. Stock linkage=much better.
2) The original trans has NO 2nd gear synchro, and reverse was pretty badly damaged... The new lsd trans is installed and runs seamlessly. Ironically I actually had to BACK off the clutch pedal adjustment. That's right, I was getting too much engagement now Laughing
3) My Trans mount was hanging on for dear life by a thread too. The rubber was completely disintegrated. I installed the Lindsey racing solid mount, but I cheated and made my own 110 durometer urethane bushings for it, so it's more semi-solid than anything.


Everything lined up great, I tore down the trans and reinstalled in one weekend, outside, in the rain, with a tarp :p
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