5th gear options, Audi?

[9/13/2016 edit: I've gotten a bunch of questions over the years on this, so I'll put all the info here, up front, so you don't have to wade through the entire thread to search out the info.

1. Yes, the swap worked great! I am running about 2250 rpm at 70 mph with the 0.68 Audi 5th gear, which is exactly what I was wanting.

2. I bought a complete Audi trans for about 125 + 75 shipping and pulled the 5th gear.

3. From my research: the swappable 0.68 5th gear is in '80-'82 Audi 5000 Diesels w/trans codes: UF, MN, BMO, WV, UW, MO, MR, AAW, AAV, AAY, AAX, AMM, & AMN.

I saw more of these boxes at either All Auto Recycling (719) 683-9600 or Jerry's Foreign (408) 993-9711.

iirc, I found the boxes pretty easily through car-parts.net and then called the guys and had them check the trans codes.

4. The Audi 0.64 5th gear was Europe only, so afaik not available in the US.

Andy]

Original post, Feb 24, 2011: Anybody swap any Audi 016 trans gears into the 944 box? It looks like the internals of the 924/944 trans is from the Audi 016 trans.

My LS1 944 has an '87 turbo trans with the 0.83 5th gear and runs about 2900 rpm at freeway cruising speed of 70 mph. I'd love to bring those revs down lower than the ~2500 that the 944 N/A 0.73 5th gear can do.

If my info's correct, the Audi 016-3T's had 0.60 5th and the 016-3U's had 0.64 5th, which would seem to be great for highway cruising.

It seems the Audi 100, 200 (and some other) models have the 016 trans, but I can't seem to get any traction on actually finding a 3T or 3U.

Any ideas?

Don't forget the 3Q with the 0.48 ratio 5th gearset. Those boxes are like hens teeth. I have a 3T located in a junk yard and will buy it when I get my Turbo box in a few weeks. I still haven't fragged my NA box believe it or not.

From my findings.... But the Dallas Audi parthouse said NLA..... They can probably be found at older dealerships if you call around.....

""""If I can find this gearset, we have 0.64 ratio 5th gears for our boxes.....
Come out of Audi 2.2l boxes coded 2U,3U,4U,5U,6U""""""
Audi #016311159P
Audi #016311353G


What are the 924 Turbo gearset #'s?

The 3Q has a great 1st gear too, 2.84. I'm guessing it's a much bigger job swapping out gears 1-4 on these trans compared to 5th.

How did you track down the 3T? I'm having no luck...

The Dallas guy said they come out of a 90's Audi 100 as well and they are $150-200 Boxes. I called an audi/vw wrecker here and they have one.

Unfortunately these thoughts don't work. The only gear that can be swapped is 5th gear. Third and fourth on the AUDI is press fit and the turbo/S/S2 use splines (one reason they are stronger). First gear is part of the input shaft and the input shaft is not swapable. The front end is too short and has a smaller diameter which requires a different case. (the case has smaller diameter input needle bearings) The AUDI input shaft is also .15" shorter between 2nd and 3rd gear along with the shift shafts and pinion. The AUDI case isn't machined for the turbo/S/S2 ring gear (the ring gear is slightly larger in diameter than the AUDI) and it uses a much larger bearing on the pinion ring gear end. The AUDI case doesn't swap with the Porsche case without a lot of specialty machining.

I wrote a paper comparing the G31, 016 and the 944 turbo/S/S2 (which is an 083 not an 016) and it has a lot of information about the differences between the 016/083. It also has some info on the 01E. It is in WORD format (.doc) and .pdf so I would need to e-mail it to anyone interested in a copy.

For normal town driving and occasional highway driving is it worth swapping a NA 5th gear into a Turbo Box? Is the Turbo 5th gear mechanically stronger than it's NA cousin?

v8carreragts wrote:I wrote a paper comparing the G31, 016 and the 944 turbo/S/S2 (which is an 083 not an 016) and it has a lot of information about the differences between the 016/083. It also has some info on the 01E. It is in WORD format (.doc) and .pdf so I would need to e-mail it to anyone interested in a copy.

I'd love to see it, thanks v8!

fliermike45 wrote:For normal town driving and occasional highway driving is it worth swapping a NA 5th gear into a Turbo Box? Is the Turbo 5th gear mechanically stronger than it's NA cousin?

fliermike, for me, the turbo 5th gear is only really useful on the freeway. However, it took me only about 10 minutes on the freeway for me to say "Dang, sure wish I was at a lower rpm."

for example, my 5.9L Durango cruises at 2000 rpm at 70 mph, I'd really rather not be at almost 3000 in the 944 at 70.

If you have the trans out anyway, I don't think you'd ever regret swapping the 5th gear.

From what I've read gear strength is essentially the same in the Turbo and NA boxes, it's just that the turbo case is stronger.

The turbo and S/S2 are essentially the same. The cases are the same. The turbo S has the input shaft, 1st gear and the ring and pinion shot peened. The differences between the turbo and S/S2 are the 1st gear ratio 3.5 vs 3.6 and the ring and pinion ratio 3.375 vs 3.875. The early N/A is vastly different and very much the same as the AUDI. There were many upgrades to the turbo/S/S2 boxes over the pre-S/S2.

The 924 S also has one of the upgrades but is mostly the same as the early boxes. The 924 S has 3rd and 4th gears splined VS the pressed on gears used on the early boxes.

There is no strength difference between either of the two 5th gear sets. You can use either.

Larger tire/wheel combinations can lower the RPM. Get some 24" spinners, you know you want to.

xschop wrote: """"If I can find this gearset, we have 0.64 ratio 5th gears for our boxes.....
Come out of Audi 2.2l boxes coded 2U,3U,4U,5U,6U""""""
Audi #016311159P
Audi #016311353G

What are the 924 Turbo gearset #'s?

So you are saying that there's another Audi box that ran the 0.64? Great, I'll start looking around for them too!

xschop wrote:Don't forget the 3Q with the 0.48 ratio 5th gearset. Those boxes are like hens teeth. I have a 3T located in a junk yard and will buy it when I get my Turbo box in a few weeks.

xschop, after more research I don't think the 013 trasaxle gears (like the 013-3T) will swap into the 016(083) turbo 944 box, I think they're too small. Not sure about the 3Q, although that is also not an 016 box, it's an 093.

I think the 0.64 5th 016-3U is the only choice of the 016 boxes (other than the 0.68 5th 016-BMO which hardly seems worth it as the 944 NA 5th is 0.73).

Will any of those 5th gear options also fit the Audi 01E (968) Tranny in either the 5th or 6th speed positions?

Bridar, I've been told that the 016 and 01e/968 gears are not swappable, I believe the 01e/968 is a bigger box.

Will any of those 5th gear options also fit the Audi 01E (968) Tranny in either the 5th or 6th speed positions?

No, 016 gears do not fit the 01E.

Other AUDI boxes with the 0.64 gear set are APN & APP.

I've been told that the 013 & 093 gears do not interchange with the 016 either.

V8, I've just spent hours googling and have had no luck. The 016 0.64 5th 3U & 0.48 5th 3Q seem to be European-only. And I can't find any info on the APN & APP, which models did they come in?

Well, I had no luck in sourcing an 0.60 or 0.64 Audi 016 5th gear/trans (Europe only, afaik) but I did find several US Audi 5000 diesel 016 trans w/0.68 5th, so that's the route I'm taking.

Is that a direct 5th gear swap like the early N/A 5th swap? What do those Audi boxes go for? Any drop in RPM at cruising is a good thing to me.

Yes, direct swap. The ones I found were 150-200 ea.

Well, it turns out the transaxle w/protection is over 150 lbs, so UPS won't ship it.

Although there are other, more expensive shipping options, would it be OK to have the parts yard separate the trans from the diff and just ship the trans?

Or would you not trust that the guys there could do this w/o messing up the trans?

I've never messed with a trans before.

They probably wouldn't want to open the transaxle because the diff is internal. You take the side cover off and lift the diff out. You can't separate it like a 928. Although if you were lucky to find one it should reduce the weight enough to ship UPS.

According to the info provided to me when i was at RH shop in vegas, the fifth gear swap should have the car at about 2300 RPM at 70 MPH based on 25" wheels etc. They say the swap will allow the car to run up to 181 MPH at 6000 RPM.

v8carreragts wrote:They probably wouldn't want to open the transaxle because the diff is internal. You take the side cover off and lift the diff out. You can't separate it like a 928. Although if you were lucky to find one it should reduce the weight enough to ship UPS.

V8, thanks. I'll tell him to just remove both side covers and pull out all the guts that he can.

kevin924kevin wrote:According to the info provided to me when i was at RH shop in vegas, the fifth gear swap should have the car at about 2300 RPM at 70 MPH based on 25" wheels etc. They say the swap will allow the car to run up to 181 MPH at 6000 RPM.

Sounds about right. I'm at about 2900 at 70 mph now with my turbo 0.83 5th, the 0.68 should get me to around 2350 at 70. No idea about the top speed - I'm married with two young kids, I won't go any where near the top speed!

fyi, from my research: the swappable 0.68 5th gear is in '80-'82 Audi 5000 Diesels w/trans codes: UF, MN, BMO, WV, UW, MO, MR, AAW, AAV, AAY, AAX, AMM, & AMN.

edit: And from my research, the 0.68 is the tallest USA spec gear available.