944Hybrids: 924/944/968 and 928 V8 Conversions
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

Comments: 0

Similar topics
Latest topics
» hydroboost with tilton clutch master
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyYesterday at 7:32 pm by Raymond-P

» Wizard radiator w/951 fans, 951 front calipers and rotors
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyYesterday at 7:03 am by 87944turbo

» 5th gear sets and transmission mount
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyMon Sep 26, 2022 11:10 am by Rob44

» NA transmission
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptySun Sep 25, 2022 2:04 pm by Rob44

» Clutch replacement
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyFri Sep 23, 2022 7:25 am by Michael Bivins

» Century alternator output suitability
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 10:04 am by sharkey

» Figuring out a list of parts for L92 swap
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyFri Sep 09, 2022 7:13 am by Leva

» LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyWed Aug 24, 2022 10:12 am by v2rocket

» Early NA budget BIG brake option
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 8:10 am by v2rocket

» Air Conditioning A/C compressor
LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped EmptySun Aug 21, 2022 10:48 am by Rob44

September 2022
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
2627282930  

Calendar Calendar

Log in

I forgot my password

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

2 posters

Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  v2rocket Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:36 am

This has been an ongoing project since August 2020 but about 3 weeks ago I was able to drive the car for the first time. It is faster than I anticipated and also louder! Still a lot of work to get the rest of the car buttoned up but it is drivable.

Summary of build:
- 1985 Porsche 944 (early) with stock torque tube and 951 transmission
- Microsquirt ECU and custom fuse/relay box under the hood (rewired entire car)
- 2006 Chevy Impala 3.9L V6 (60 degree family, OHV), custom intake and exhaust manifolds
- GM F23 FWD manual transaxle cut up to make a bellhousing
- GM FWD flywheel/pressure plate (fits Cavalier, Fiero, and everything in between)
- 9" Ford Ranger clutch disc (1"x23 spline fits perfectly)
- Buick Regal/Saab 9-3 slave cylinder
- Honda Civic 5/8" clutch master cylinder (made adapter to attach to firewall)
- 1988 BMW 325 brake master cylinder without boost (22mm/17mm bores vs 23.8/19 for 944 MC)
- Mustang-II type manual steering rack mounted on custom crossmember
- Jaguar XJ6 engine mounts
- Relocated alternator on custom bracket, repositioned idlers to make unique accessory drive to fit

The engine is the first pushrod VVT engine that GM made. However the VVT is only used for cruising MPG - it starts off fully advanced and retards depending on load and RPM condition. I didn't want to bother so I locked the cam phaser fully advanced (+9*) and set the cam gear 1 tooth retarded (-7.2*) so the cam is fixed at 1.8* advanced from "straight up". My initial drives prove this to be successful, it hauls!

Stock the engine is rated 240hp/240tq with that tiny VVT cam. The per-cylinder displacement and head flow are roughly equal to a 5.3L LSV8, so there is a lot of head room for power gains. Aftermarket cams/springs/etc are available that should make ~300hp attainable.

Why did I pick this engine?
- Priorities were 968/turbo S type power, but lower running cost, greater parts availability, and more working space.
--- I played with 944 engines for 16 years but the parts are too expensive now, and there are only about 3-4 places in the US that know what Alusil is and how to work with it. Just became too much of a PITA for me.
--- This whole swap has cost about the same as buying just a tired 968 engine, but parts to run it going forward will be a fraction of Porsche prices, and usually in stock at the local auto store if needed.
- This engine is 6 inches narrower than an LS, 5 inches shorter front to back, sits almost entirely behind the front axle, and weighs only 10 lbs more fully dressed than my 944 engine did, with over 50% more displacement.
- Any kind of maintenance I may need to do I will have tons of working room, something you can't always say with a 944 engine and definitely not a 951.

Below are some photos - top is taken after the first drive, the others are earlier "mid-swap" just to show the small package of the engine overall.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]

v2rocket

Posts : 115
Join date : 2009-11-22

xschop and ChrisRL like this post

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Oil pan.

Post  Killjoy Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:12 am

You still have to modify the oil pan to clear the crossmember with this swap? It looked that way in the picture. If so, how much did you have to modify it to fit?

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  v2rocket Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:10 pm

Killjoy wrote:You still have to modify the oil pan to clear the crossmember with this swap? It looked that way in the picture. If so, how much did you have to modify it to fit?

No, I did not modify the oil pan at all. I had considered it originally but ended up not needing to.

v2rocket

Posts : 115
Join date : 2009-11-22

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:38 pm

I would love to see and hear in more detail about your custom crossmember and Mustang II rack. Havent heard of anyone else doing that. I'm setting up an early 924 with early 944 brakes and transaxle, and since it has the steel crossmember I'm curious to see some custom crossmember solutions. I was set on an ls swap but I find your setup very interesting.

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:34 pm

I'd also like to see what you had to do to the intake and exhaust manifolds.

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  v2rocket Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:11 pm

Killjoy wrote:I'd also like to see what you had to do to the intake and exhaust manifolds.

lower intake is stock. upper intake you can see in the first photo. a guy made a cad file of the flanges, i ordered them laser cut, then welded up the rest of the manifold on top of the flanges.

the exhaust manifolds are just made out of Weld-Els, very simple design to get around everything else in the engine bay.

here's a shot from a while back showing the crossmember and steering rack and motor mount arms (which have since been modified/trimmed). it is mostly 2.5" square tubing with a notch cut out to clear the oil pan. the 2.5" dimension was chosen since it's very close to the outside width of the control arm bushing.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

v2rocket

Posts : 115
Join date : 2009-11-22

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:04 pm

Why the change to the mustang rack? And you used parts of the factory exhaust manifold?

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:09 pm

Seems like my 924 having the steel crossmember actually should help for this swap, easier to modify and weld.

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  v2rocket Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:32 pm

Killjoy wrote:Why the change to the mustang rack? And you used parts of the factory exhaust manifold?
the stock 944/924 rack mounts stick up above the rack tube about an inch. i needed the engine to sit as low as i could. the mustang rack mounts are both below the rack entirely so i could put the oil pan closer to the rack.

i did not use the factory manifolds at all in the end - i had hoped i could but it wouldn't have cleared the steering shaft on the driver side.

v2rocket

Posts : 115
Join date : 2009-11-22

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:19 pm

Good info. Thanks!

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  Killjoy Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:06 pm

Do you think I could have a copy of your intake flange CAD file?

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Factory crossmember clearance.

Post  Killjoy Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:48 pm

I can't tell exactly from from your mock up photos, but approximately how far back would the motor have to go to clear the factory crossmember altogether? How close at the valve covers to the firewall as it sits in your car. I'm thinking I would maybe rather cut the firewall back and shorten the torque tube and drive shaft some than have to move the rack and crossmember around.

Killjoy

Posts : 11
Join date : 2022-05-16

Back to top Go down

LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped Empty Re: LZ9 3.9L V6 in 1985 944 - GM 60 degree V6 swapped

Post  v2rocket Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:12 am

Killjoy wrote:I can't tell exactly from from your mock up photos, but approximately how far back would the motor have to go to clear the factory crossmember altogether? How close at the valve covers to the firewall as it sits in your car. I'm thinking I would maybe rather cut the firewall back and shorten the torque tube and drive shaft some than have to move the rack and crossmember around.
Sorry, didn't realize you had posted again.

I don't remember exactly but I think it would be around 4 inches to clear the x-member.

I had to shift the whole drivetrain forward 1" (by adjusting the trans mount) and still had to bash the firewall a bit to clear the driver side valve cover. Currently I have maybe 1/2" clearance back there. If you are up to cutting out that bump in the firewall you could make this fit a lot better.

v2rocket

Posts : 115
Join date : 2009-11-22

Killjoy likes this post

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum