Techno Duck's LS1 conversion

Well i have been talking about it for the past few months and finally have something to show!

I bought this LS1 from an '04 GTO a few days ago and picked it up from the freight terminal today. Motor has 58k miles on it and was reasonably clean so i decided to go for it. I spent the last month or so looking for originally an LS6, but was beginning to lean towards an LS1. The LS6 motors were a bit more more than i wanted to spend and honestly the extra HP is not really a concern with me as i have traction concerns already . I did consider a few crate engines but decided against that due to the amount of things i would needed to have bought to make it a 'complete' engine add up pretty quickly! I was happy to find the GTO LS1 as it uses the LS6 block with the ports between the cylinders, LS6 intake and the LS6 valley cover setup.

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Anyway i am really looking forward to doing the LS conversion. I have spent alot of time and money on the turbo engine but could really never get it running right. Back in the winter of '09 i was debating rebuilding the engine, putting in a V8 or selling the car. I ended up rebuilding the engine, i fixed all the oil leaks, redid the bottom end but still had many of the issues originally from before the rebuild (running problems). Spent the rest of the year trying to sort the problems out and as a result missed an entire track season and wasted alot of time. I decided in November before i put the car away for storage i had pretty much had it with the turbo engine. Wishing i had just done the swap last year as i would have saved alot of money and grief!

Come April i am going to pull the turbo engine and get the ball rolling with the conversion. As of now i will likely ship the car to Eric at TPC to have him do the swap for me. Usually i am the do-it yourself type but with my current work schedule and what i do for a living i have very little motivation to work on anything when i get home for my time off.. plus i feel like it would turn into a never ending project if i did it myself.

It will be sad to see this engine go though, i put so much time and money into this thing. It was alot of fun when it ran right.. but it hasnt really ran right since the beginning of '09!

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Still need to find many other parts needed like the C5 bell housing, f-body PS pump bracket (so i can use the Turn1 pump), fbody a/c comrpessor and a few other odds and ends. I also need to figure out what brake booster setup to go with. Tomorrow i am going to strip the motor down of the unneeded stuff. Also i need to decide how much work i want to do with the motor before it goes in.

As of now it will definitely get a cam with the usual valvetrain upgrades and a LS2 timing chain. Then i am debating the addition of a Melling oil pump and Katech rod bolts.

I did consider selling the car, but really love the 944 platform. I have owned a 944 series car since '02 and daily drove my 951 up until '08 or so. I just couldnt bring myself to sell the car though, it is very well equipped.. just the engine was always the questionable part.

Anyhow for now that is really all to report.. will have more to come by April. . I am looking forward to leaving for the track in the morning and not having to wonder much if the car is going to make it home!

It would be an honor to put your car together for you. Also I forgot to mention in the email that I have three F-body power steering pump brackets. I can send you one with the headers If you would like.

Spent a few hours and stripped some of the parts off the engine so i can get rid of some of the things i dont need. I took the engine harness off and gotta say it was really nice to not deal with cracking plastic connectors and crumbling insulation.. plus it was nice to actually have a flexible harness instead of one that is rock hard from 25 years of heat cycles!

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I am pretty anal when it comes to having a clean engine, so three old tooth brushes and a half bottle of Simple Green later i cleaned up the block to my satisfaction.. .

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I still have alot of things to order / find. Been trying to decide how much work to do on the engine while everything is easy to access. Here is a list of my plans so far..

-Reseal entire engine.. front crank, front timing cover, rear cover, rear main, valley cover
-Pull cylinder heads and have them rebuilt. Only 58k miles on them but i figure minus well do it now. I was thinking of finding a set of 243 heads to throw on but think i may just stick with the 241's. Not even sure if i am going to bother having any porting work done.
-Install cam and associated valvetrain upgrades. Still need to call EPS to figure out what will work for me.
-Install LS2 timing chain and the plastic chain damper from the LS2 (i think i need the LS2 one..otherwise its the LS6 one)
-New waterpump

Still trying to decide on a few things also..

-Was thinking of going with a Katech or Melling oil pump. Read the long threads about the high volume vs high pressure and think ill probably end up going with the high pressure pump.
-Not sure if i am going to bother touching the bottom end. I dont want to open a can of worms with changing the bearings, then having to get the rod ends resized..etc. Was thinking of throwing on the Katech rod bolts but not sure if its worth while. Despite using the car on the track, i dont plan on spinning the engine up much past 6k rpm like i did with the turbo engine.

Something strange i found when taking apart the engine, the previous owner of this engine installed a dryer on the PCV line off the valley cover as a make shift catch can. Seen this done plenty of times before, but what really confused me is the way they had the clean air tube (by the oil fill tube) T'ed in with the old PCV port on the drivers rear valve cover.

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Got my LS1 with 60k miles on it and didn't open it or freshen it at all. With an EPS cam I'm making 373rwhp. It's not a bad idea to freshen the motor, but in all likelihood it doesn't need it.

TD,

I will be following your swap with interest.. I'm using the same motor (04 GTO) but mine has a bit fewer miles at 26k. I wasn't planning to open the motor either, so far I've just done the valve cover gaskets but everything else looks great. I will probably hold off on a cam for now due to budget reasons.

Also my plan was to use the stock GM PS pump with hydroboost, any reason why you want the turnone?

I would also suggest not digging into your engine. My LS1 out of a 99 Corvette was replaced due to an upgrade and had 95K on it when i bought it. I rebuilt it becuase it had sat in a shop with no intake, or valve covers and someone had thrown floor dry/kitty litter on it. The cylinders still had crosshatch, the bearings looked great, rod bearings had a little wear in the centers. The only bearings that really showed any wear were the cam bearings but I later found out its normal on these engines to see the cam bearings worn, and likely if i checked again after some miles would see it again. I didnt see a single item that lead me to believe there was a failure anywhere near except floor dry clear into the cylinders
Mark

I am leaning towards not touching anything on the bottom end and probably wont. Dont want to take any chances, especially when ARP suggests resizing the rod ends when changing the bolts out.

I am going to pull the heads off just to have them rebuilt, id also like to check the bores out just for peace of mind before all this work is done to put the engine in the car.

Definetley going to reseal everything though for peace of mind. The front timing cover will need to come off anyhow to replace the cam and the chain. The oil pump i am still on the fence about, its literally 'right there' while doing the cam swap, and i need to pull the oil pan off anyhow (GTO pan is still on). I like how this motor basically has 2 oil seals (front crank and RMS). The 944T has $#** all over the place that can leak!

supes, i have only done the reading about it but from what i read the Turn1 pump will not cook the power steering fluid in a track environment like the stock pump. I also plan to use a hydroboost setup, so dont want to have any problems. I have someone buying the entire GTO steering setup that came on my motor, so that should cover close to half the cost of the Turn1 pump anyhow.

Have fun with the swap, you won't regret it.

If you are going to touch the oil pump, and I don't think you should, stick a stock one back in there.
If you were making a lot more HP or had very large clearances in the bearings etc you would then consider a high pressure or high volume pump.
Melling is a reputable manufacturer, that is what I used in my engine.

Something I forgot to mention... You have updated rod bolts over the 99 and earlier bolts that were known to fail, BUT GM has updated them once more since then... When i orignally built my engine 1.5 years ago I got the second version, but I managed to torque them incorrectly and replaced them about 6 months ago they were on back order, and when i receved them they were noticably different. I am comfortable with the GM bolts, you dont hear of the failures like you used to. IF/When i tear this engine down again I will get them machining done to use the ARP bolts.

Mark

Good suggestions, thanks. I guess i am a little blinded by how cheap stuff is for this motor and also i have been dealing with the 'while your in there' mentality for the last decade or so of owning a 944. For example, i was going to send the injectors out for cleaning / reseal, total cost would be about $180 with shipping both ways. I was curious and looked at upgrade injectors which are anywhere between $250-300 depending which i go with.. hell i think for the extra $100 ill throw in a slightly larger set to give more head room in the future!

Don't think you'll need bigger injectors. I'm making 373rwhp on the stock injectors with plenty of headroom.

You definitely want the Turn 1 pump if you're going to track the car. With the factory pump it'll boil the fluid, which is particularly bad when you need it for braking too.

Started selling off many of the spare and parts i hadnt gotten around to installing. Still waiting on payment for one thing so i can order the headers from Eric and get them to SwainTech for coating.

Its a little hard to sell some of this stuff, guess i am still a little sentimental about this turbo engine, but on the other hand its nice when a good portion of the parts i need to buy still will be offset by the stuff i am selling. Ive made a ton of trips to FedEx and i am happy i usually save the boxes for stuff that gets shipped to me! I know for sure i never want to part one of these cars out.. just posting everything and shipping it is part time job in itself!

Got a 2pc bell housing a few days ago and also decided to order a standalone harness from PSI. I decided to go with a standalone harness to keep the wiring as clean as possible. The GTO harness normally has the legs for the PCM connectors on the drivers side unlike the f-body harness on the passenger side. Plus i noticed one bundle of the wires looks like it may have been rubbing on something and is pretty 'squished' with the insulation showing some wear. Ive dealt with my fair share of electrical related problems on the original 951 engine harness and dont want to invite more problems! Another thing is i figured this would save alot of work with cutting out all the wires for the body control module on the GTO harness. I figure by selling the GTO harness / PCM i should be able to recoup a few hundred to offset the cost of the harness from PSI. Still need to get a f-body PCM, but that can wait. There are a ton of options for standalone harnesses, went with PSI after reading some reviews on LS1Tech and after talking with them on the phone. Another thing i liked is they are pretty upfront on the cost with what is included.. it seemed like alot of other places started out around the same price, but once you started adding things on the price went up quick. The PSI harness had everything i needed with what seemed like no strings attached. They are also only about an hour and a half from me so its nice to give a 'local' place my business.

Heading back offshore in a few days which will give me a solid 4 weeks to make up a wish list for everything else i need to get. Really looking forward to getting this car running this year

I have a spare F body ECU that has a headers, 224 cam, exhaust tune on it already. Let me know if you want it. Eric's tuner did the tune.

Eric has been doing an outstanding job updating his parts for the swap. My only regret is that I'm not doing my swap now, so I could get his long tube headers, etc...

How much are the power steering pumps from Turn One? My car has an LS2 from a GTO...

Got the PSI standalone harness a few days ago and everything looks great, wish i could have gotten a new harness for the original 951 engine for $500! I sold the GTO harness and PCM which ended up covering more than half the cost of this harness, so i figured it was worth it to save the trouble of cutting out all the unneeded wiring on the GTO harness. Ill also need to get an f-body alternator due to the difference in how the GTO / f-body PCM controls the alternator, but not a big deal as they are cheap!

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Anyhow i wont have much to report until April when i get back home.. until then i will be compiling a list of everything else i need to get and window shopping online .

Your GTO alt should work fine, it's wired independant of the pcm and is higher output than the f-body unit. You just need to remove the rear bracket.

Your GTO alt will work, you don't even have to remove the bracket. Just a little neat trimming and it'll fit just fine. Even the AC compressor will work with a little frame rail dent.

Spent the last feel days finalizing my parts list, pretty sure i have mostly everything i need to get the engine ready.. just need to hit 'submit' on the order page now.. .

Ordered the Turn1 pump today, to answer zeusrotty's question about how much they were; its $315 for the pump and pulley ($240 for the pump, $75 for the billet pulley).

Regarding the Spec clutch options, what disc is everyone running, stage 1 or 2? I figure ill end up around 350-370whp but would like the ability to support 400whp in the future if i decide to throw on worked heads. Definitely will do the billet flywheel, but undecided on the aluminum pressure plate.

Gotta call EPS about a cam in a few days when i get to Texas City.. sitting at anchor right now off Galveston and my cell service is pretty shitty.. Took forever to talk to the guy at Turn1 to order the pump! Other than that everything else i need is pretty much 'off the shelf'.

My work schedule got a little messed up so not sure how much time i am going to have to work on this when i get home, so may have to push things back a month or two. My goal is to atleast get the engine ready to go before i head back offshore. It would be nice to pull the turbo engine also, but not sure if ill have the time. Also trying to decide if i want to finalize installation of the engine myself, or essentially mount the engine in the car only for shipping purposes.

My job schedule can be a real PITA sometimes and is why i plan to ship the car to TPC. With the rate i am going i will never get this car done on my own!

I have the Spec Stage 2. I'm making about 375rwhp (may be making more, dynoing again the end of the month to check) and the same in torque, the Stage 2 holds it really well, but is still a very drivable clutch.

I also have their aluminum lightweight flywheel, which I really like. If you don't get a flywheel from them, you'll need to have the clutch assembly with your flywheel balanced at a machine shop before you install it.

Eric does great work and refines both his parts and installations as he goes forwards. You'll be in good hands with him.

I too went with the SPEC stage 2 disc, flywheel and pressure plate. So far so good but I've only driven it about a mile.

Rich

My job schedule can be a real PITA sometimes and is why i plan to ship the car to TPC. With the rate i am going i will never get this car done on my own!

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im in the same boat... being a truckdriver i dont have every nite to work on mine. Im considering taking mine down to eric also. Ill have 90% of the parts just need him to put it all together. But its a big chunk of change that i could use for somethin else. Just will have to take extra time off i guess.

I have the spec stage III with lightweight flywheel. Great for the track, but I would not want to use it on the street.

Thanks for the feedback on the clutch. I plan to go with the full Spec package.. just not sure if i am going to do the billet pressure plate yet. Probably wont bother with it to keep some street manners as i do have to deal with sitting in NYC traffic on occasion getting to the track.. also to keep the cost of this engine swap down a little.

Going to order a bunch of the conversion specific parts soon so i atleast have everything needed to get the engine in.

shockwave, i usually get 3-4 weeks off at a time so time isnt the big issue. But what it really comes down too is i am always pretty burnt out after 4+ weeks of keeping the engineering plant on my boat going. The last thing i want to do when i get home is spend my time under the hood. I wasted alot of time on the car trying to get the turbo engine running right last year and was pretty miserable as a result. Even after all that time spent working on it i havent made a track day in almost two years now.. managed to squeeze in two auto-x's last year and that was about it. Really looking forward to coming home, taking the cover off the car and driving it without constantly having to tweak something.

Finally back home and have things moving again. Got the Turn1 PS pump a few days ago and picked up a new Bosch waterpump today. Cant believe how huge it is compared to the original 944 pump! Ordered pretty much all the conversion parts from Eric a few weeks back also.

Only thing i wish i had done was call EPS sooner about ordering a cam.. but never really had the opportunity at work. Talked to them this morning and should have everything in about two weeks. As per there recommendation ill be going with a 226/230 113LSA. This delays me a bit with getting the heads done as ill have to wait on the valve springs..etc. Oh well!

Pulled the car out of storage this afternoon and drove it for the first time in 6 months. Met up with a local friend to let him check out the engine. The long block is basically spoken for which is nice as shipping consists of bringing it too his house 10 minutes away! It will be nice not having to find a corner to store it in and not deal with the shipping on it.

Just waiting on my friend to finish up with his engine hoist and will start working on removing the engine. Hopefully will have it out before the end of next week assuming the weather is good. Funny thing is that engine hoist literally sat in my friends garage for like 4 years without being used.. this past month there is basically a waiting list with two of my friends pulling blown motors.

Spent a few days at work getting my learning on.. i know alot about the 944 series, the 4.0L i6 in my Jeep and two stroke medium speed diesels.. but not so much about push rod V8's! Finally i have some understanding of camshaft specs and familiarized myself with the LSx motors by reading through the 'How to rebuild performance LS1' books. I personally think that is the worst part of buying a new car.. having to learn all the little nuances of the engine.

And i have been thinking.. with the current gas prices i have been thinking maybe i should put an LS1 into my Cherokee also. The 4L i6 in it is indestructible but pretty horrendous on gas. I bet an LS1 would do better..