Getting ready to start this project

Hey guys, I am a complete newb to start but I want to start a project with my Dad. I want to swap an LSX (preferably an LS2 with a mild cam) into an 86+ Porsche 944 Turbo or "S" car and would like a little insite on the big picture. I will be selling my current car to fund this project (2004 Mach 1 Mustang) and if all goes well, I will have roughly $10,000 to start this build(and about $600/ month to fund it). First I am buying a commuter car (Honda Civic) and the budget for this will be roghly $3,000 + or - a few hundred. This leaves me with about $7,000 to buy a Porsche, an LSX, Renegade kit, and then eventually anything else that I will need. Any input is greatly appreciated!

Questions:

1) How long did it take you to swap the motor once you were ready to do so?

2) What was your budjet/ is my budjet reasonable?

3) Major difficulties(individual and the project in general)?

4) Is Renegade Hybrids legit? ( I have read that they are not worth it...)

- Thanks!

7k for a porsche, renegade kit, LS2 +cam, and everything else needed?

Whatcha smokin!

LS2 alone is 4-5K and when you add a cam (plus all valvetrain etc) and tuning is upwards 4.5-6K. The Renegade kit along with everything you will need is +4-5K depending on what you get from them (more if you plan to actually drive the car). Then you need to buy a Porsche; look at 4-5 for a good donor. If you plan on an LS2 with more power (cam), you need to upgrade the brakes and suspension since it will be an over 20 year old car.

minus my cost on a second car and a 2nd ls1 engine, I have 12,000 to 14,000 invested in the project and still am getting stuff for the body. Alot of guys already have a car that they have been driving so that saves them a good chunk of money.

All my parts have come from Renegade and I had the swap done in a matter of weeks. I made sure I didnt have to modify or fabricate anything when I bought the kit from Renegade. They are a little pricey though for the parts you can get else where. They do alot of outsourcing of parts and add a third party cost to them. So I would check around and see whose got what. I know Eric at Texas Performance Concepts makes alot of the parts too and he is legit.

That budget is doable, just not with that engine, especially if you don't have a car already. I would look to Texas Performance (Admin on this site) and xschop for the conversion specific parts you need- at least I am.

That budget is OK maybe with an LS1 and for sure if you go with a 5.3 from a truck.

If this is going to be your daily driver I would not recommend it. Your 04 Mach is a relatively new car. A 1986 944 you pick up is going to be 24 years old. There will still be a lot of other little issues to deal with after you swap the power plant. It is just an old car.

I would recommend you keep the 04 Mach. You can make great power with that thing and there are a zillion bolt ons for it. New parts are plentiful. With the 944, just try getting anything for it from the local Auto Zone!

You can always do a budget build on the side. save your money and find a 86 turbo like I did for $2300. buy a 5.3 engine (assuming you are not in california) for about $800 with harness and computer. Headers, Oilpan, uprights, Bellhousing, adapters, oil filter replocating kit, etc, etc, etc figure about $2500.

keep ur mach, ur weekly check coming in can go towards the build ( like a certian % of it)

Agreed with Modenas, you can make a great car out of the Mach1 and not have to deal with all the hassle.

Have you seen the Griggs kits for the Mustangs?

Well thanks for the insight guys, I meant to say that I would have about 7k to start this thing not complete it lol. And as of now, I have about $100 left over at the end of each month with my Mach 1... I am 19 and pay 322/ moth for insurence and 162/month for car payment and then add on gas for the 200+ miles I drive a week. Its effing expensive lol. On a seconf note, bolt on dont do anyhting for my car, I know because I almost had full bolt ons and ended up selling a few of them because they did nothing for performance... It cost BIG money to make an N/A 4v build good power. So I guess an LS1 would be the better motor huh, Maybe ill save up a little more for the LS2...

just a side track question as far as bolt on go. I know you are 19 and might be some what new into cars not fully understanding performance parts or you maybe very experienced, i dont know. But I was curious when you added bolt ons to your mustang did you also tune it. Each bolt on would require a tune to pull out the performance that the sales rep and articles state they will make on your engine. You cant just add them and expect the computer to know what you changed.

As far as your monthly budget goes now, that is not much to work with. I can understand your desire to get out form under the Stang. Just make sure you know what you want to do with the car when its done or you will be like me doing it a second time. lol.

I have American Racing SS 1 5/8 longtube headers with 3in - 2.5in collectors and a catted x-pipe, weld in Dronemasters, JLT CAI, SCT SF3 "canned BAMA tune........" FRPP Cobra clutch (And a little bigger Accufab throttle body at the time) as far as performance mods go. The canned tune is from BAMA custom tunes from AmericanMuscle.com and it sucked horribly because my gas milage dropped severly and it made my car smell really skunkish so I assumed it was a bad tune and returned it to stock. The car has never been dyno tuned. It is about a 12.9-13.1 second car if you have the driver mod lol, now that the I replaced the clutch. I ran a 13.61 @ 106.41 mph with a 2.33 60 ft and the factory clutch that was going out. I dont have the driver mod obviously lol. MM&FF took an 03 Mach 1 to a 13.1 @105 mph factory stock.

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- I dont need the car finished in a month, It can take a year if I need to. Thats why I am buying the Civic as a commuter. My Dad is just worried that it will be really difficult to do this swap.

Sounds like they did a bad tune though on the mach. I prefer dyno tunes myself not just one bought online, you can see what every little thing is doing as far as power goes and can tell where too much fuel or ignition is killing power instead of making it.

as far as the swap, there is no true difficulty. In fact it is quite opposite. I think the hardest parts is getting under the dash to unbolt the brake booster from the firewall. You get to run everything the way you to from fuel to brakes. You take the motor out and have a completely empty bay that you can modify and clean to your liking.

Depending on your driving style that you will be doing once completed, you get to custom your trans, suspension, and aeros. You get to build a super car from scratch pretty much. If you dont want to fab alot of stuff or do not want the headache of modifying alot of worn out parts, I would look into stand alone harnesses, pre existing headers, that are becoming more common as people like eric, xshop, and rh are designing better setups. Just remember the more prefabbed parts are the more it cost.

After removing the porsche engine, if you have your ls motor ready for installing and you have the pieces for everything needed it may take a week to get the motor installed on a couple hour shifts a night.

I did it by myself, with my wife's help every once in awhile, in a 12x30 storage building with an engine hoist and a low pro racing jack and no air tools. It is not hard at all. take a look through my gallery and you will see what I had to work with.

Cool, thats what I wanted to hear lol. I just posted my car on Craigslist so im partially committed now. Is xshop, RH, and eric people on the forum or websites, I searched xshop and didnt find anything. What is "the" website for this hobby? I mean AmericanMuscle.com is pretty much the website for mustangs, is there a popular website that sells parts for porsches/porsche swaps?

this is the website. Xshop is on this site, so is Eric(admin) he runs Texas performance concepts. RH is Renegade hybrids, you should know their website already.

The forum header at the top of the page has the Texas Performance Concepts site on it. Eric is the main man for the conversions on this site.

Other sites:
Renegadehybrids.com is their website.
Pelican parts
Rennlist
944 online

There are others but I do not know them off the top of my head. I have a whole favorites file for the porsche sites.

Seriously hit up Texas performance website and check what Eric has to offer.

Make sure you look in the Wiki. Greg has provided a ton of information in there.

So how do I buy the porsche 948 covnersion manual? It has a buy now button but I cant click it...

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Btw my Dad doesnt want any part of this project, says it is gooing to be way too difficult and "it is just a big money pit" but what is a hobby anyways??? Says the motor was not meant to be in the car and basicaly told me it will not work... FML... He told me I should just buy a foxbody mustang and build that but I guarantee it will cost a lot more to build an equally agile/fast foxbody. Mostly because I would have to build/balance/blueprint a motor, build a transmission, and build a rearend which I think will be a lot more expensive than swapping a stock ls1 into a car for the same result.

lol yea that what i was told, dad told me to hold off the project till im older, stable and ready to do it

The manual is great, I have one. If you can't get one use the wiki. Greg wrote the wiki and put most of the info in there for free.

Forgot to say that he is scared about the electrical stuff. How dificult is that, renegade hybrids makes it sound like plug and play but I have no clue?

The LS1 computer and harness can be made to be stand alone by stripping off what is not needed then making your own fuse/relay center to run off of. I just finished the harness today and will start on a fuse/relay center. Get an alldata subscription for the motor you get and the Porsche 944 year you have then all of the schematics will be there.

Remember, nothing on these cars is a "Plug and play"

Wiring on these cars is about as difficult as automotive wiring can get. If you understand automotive electricity in general, and can read and understand a wiring diagram, then you'll be okay. Otherwise, i would stay clear.

What are your goals for the 944? The Mach1's are a pretty solid car to begin with. If it were me, i would spend the money on modifying the Mach1....if you put some money into the suspension on that car, it will be handling as well as a 944 in no time (my suggestion, start with some weld-in subframe connectors...you wouldn't believe how much they help!)!

Mach 1's come from the factory with subframe connectors and the problem with building my Mach is that I dont have the money to. Insurence and car payment, not to mention gas, basically tie me down to around $100 a month to spend on the Mach, not a good build budget lol. I am in school right now working 32 hours a week and going to school 40 hours a week and that is why I am low on cash.

Okay, then you should definitely NOT be looking at picking up a project car. If you think you've got money and time issues now then just wait!

PORCH does have a point. I mean the basic starting point is a big chunk just for the kit but the project does add up and it will take you awhile if you are working on limited funds. You will be like me waiting for your next set of grants to come in to do anything to the car. It is worth it dont get me wrong but not having a income like the rest of the older guys here is a tough position for us younger ones that want this car.

Well thanks for your help guys but my Dad is not onboard and I cant do it without him so looks like were doing a turbo mustang.