RS Technic Conversion...

Well I've started down the slippery slope   .
The conversion begins. I have a 1983 944 and an LS1 from a 1998 Corvette donor.
I will try my best to photo the process and describe what changes, mods and parts I used to make everything work.
This forum has been ABSOLUTELY invaluable for preparing for the project. I think I have read every thread looking to pull info to solve problems and prepare/purchase parts before I began. I would like to use this thread to provide that to future converters.
Any questions, wisdom and/or advise will be greatly appreciated.

The vast majority of conversion specific parts were procured from Eric at TPC (Admin). I already know I will need a few more in the immediate future.

The car will be used on the road with 3-4 DE/Track events a year. It will not be my daily driver, but will be driven often. I think I've found a happy medium.

The PLAN:
Obvious - the LS1
- TPC mounts, oil pan, bellhousing adapter, tube exhaust, Pilot bearing & adapt.
Dual remote oil filters w/cooler (more oil, more filter = more good)
SPEC Conversion stage 2+ clutch and pressure plate, GM slave Cyl.
Manual steering
Mustang PB running off stock PS pump w/cooler, Wilwood prop. valve
Wilwood clutch MC
Paragon Spec 1 suspension
- Koni sport adjustable on all 4 corners
- Weltmiester front and rear sway bars
- 350# hypercoil front and 30mm torsion rear
- Complete Delrin/Urethane bushings for all suspension
Urethane Trans mounts
Wilwood dynalight 4 pot front, turbo rears (if some one has a set of these they are not using, let me know)

I do have a few questions I couldn't find solid answers for and hope you can assist with.

1- Engine management
I do have the complete harness and ECM. It came off of a vehicle with the auto trans.
Is reprogramming and modifying the harness worth the time, effort and trial & error?
FAST EZ-EFI seems to be a reasonable solution at a reasonable price considering it comes with a new harness, an ignition module and a wide-band self adjusting ECU and all the sensors needed. This would be beneficial as I will most likely make engine mods (cam, rocker arms, ect.) in the future and would not need to reprogram the entire system, just update.
I did look at the MSD Atomic system, which is also very nice, but HOLY CRAP expensive. ($1400 vs. $3000 w/required adapters).

2- Head lights
What is the general concensus on the bucket mounts? I think I've seen that Skywalker1 has them on his 944. I believe there was a Canadian gentleman on the 924 forum who was making some very good kits. Any info or opinions will be appreciated.

3- Fiberglass hood/front fenders/nose piece
Is the cost worth the weight savings?

I will post more as the build progresses.

Thanks for the info I have already received and thanks for any info that can be provided.

A quick pic after the first night of de-construction.
[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

Passenger side.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Back. I have the TT adapter mounted, but it will be coming off so I can install a one piece line from the MC and a remote bleed line.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Drivers side.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Prior to beginning teardown.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Any input on the questions in the original post? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

I would recommend removing all the nice looking fiberglass wrap on the manifolds. It will cause them to rust and prematurity fail!

Good luck with the project, you will love it when it's done.

Admin wrote:I would recommend removing all the nice looking fiberglass wrap on the manifolds. It will cause them to rust and prematurity fail!

Admin - I did spray the manifolds with 4 good layers of the ceramic high temp coating recommended by the wrap manufacture. The only reason I did it was in hope of keeping under-hood temps down and hopefully improve exhaust flow.

However, since you did build them and have been using them on your cars I will defer to your advice. The wrap comes off.

Thank you.

Lemming - I have to admit I'm loving it already   

Hello all,
I apologize for not updating sooner.

As I have gotten a huge majority of the info I have needed for my conversion from this forum and Admin I am going to try my best to photo and log all the parts and technics I am using. I will also do my best to include part numbers and sources.

But first I want to address a topic of much discussion I found doing research - remove the engine from the bottom or the top.
A little background. I am replacing/rebuilding all of the bushings, bearings, grease, tubing, wiring, ect. As a result I have removed the suspension front and rear. The drive shafts are out, but the transmission and the drained fuel tank are still installed. the jack stands are on the mounts just to the front of the rear wheel wells and on the frame rail just behind where the cross member was.

My opinion? Remove it from the bottom  
I used a jack to support the engine, removed the crossmember bolts, lowered it to the floor and then simply picked up the front of the car and slid the engine out. The hardest part was moving the engine around to seperate it from the driveshaft.

The arm on the left is me holding the car up. One arm. Very well balanced and very predictable.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have place a tire under the spare tire well to stop any accidental lifting.

Below is the engine bay ready for cleaning and recoating.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I am upgrading my fans from stock to these 10" beauties from permacool. I found them at Summit racing (no affiliation with any sources I list, except maybe Eric, and this is his forum). PN - PRM-19120 (69.72ea).
They move up to 2350 cfm each and only draw 4.7amps each. I will run one on the lowside and one on the high.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The radiator is from Ebay. All AL, vacuum brazed or welded and no epoxy. It is designed as a replacement for the 951. Yes I was a little sceptical, however upon receiving it, it appears to be a very high quality piece. Winner Racing - winnerracing.com.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I am using a 25% reduction balancer from Summit. High walled to pervent belt jump and SFI 18.1 certified should you choose to run your engine up to 12,500rpm. If you do, PLEASE post pics of the aftermath!  PN - SUM-C2502 (161.97)


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

For exhaust, I'm going all stainless 2.5 dual pipe. Again Summit racing. Collector/reducers  PN-SUM-G4754SS (33.97set W/SS bolts and gasket), Flex pipes PN-SUM-642510-1 (32.19ea).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The next thing I kinda found by accident when looking through the LS-1 section. It is actually for the new Camaro SS's. It is PERFECT. It is a 2 1/2 dual X pipe. It fits great down the center channel. Thanks to this my exhaust will literally slide into place. I will use the clamps on this pipe to allow exhaust component removal in the future. I will weld all the other joints. Darn near plug and play. PN-SUM-642135-SS (139.97)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have plenty more to post and will do so later.

Please feel free to enquire/comment. I'm not an expert, but I will try to explain why I did or purchased something. Also, if you see something that could be done better/different/safer, ect PLEASE speak up.

Nice !

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

btw...how much was the radiator? I don't see it on eBay:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

fwiw, I had an underdrive pulley at first and my coolant temps got uncomfortably high. I put an OEM pulley on and my temps were much better. Coolant flow rates really affect your radiator's efficiency. Sounds like you have some bitch'n fans though, so probably you'll be fine!

944convert wrote:Nice !

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

btw...how much was the radiator? I don't see it on eBay:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here is the Ebay link:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It was $305 with shipping included.

acorad wrote:fwiw, I had an underdrive pulley at first and my coolant temps got uncomfortably high. I put an OEM pulley on and my temps were much better. Coolant flow rates really affect your radiator's efficiency. Sounds like you have some bitch'n fans though, so probably you'll be fine!

If it doesn't work out, I can always go back to stock.
Getting the donor engine from a Corvette resulted in going with new F-body pulleys, brackets, alternator and balancer. I have the Neuspeed underdrive on my Golf and haven't had any issues.
I'll make sure to post any issues.

Good day all!

A little update.
I have finished the slotting and trimming on the slave cyl.
Nothing a Dremel, cutting disc and a steady hand couldn't handle.
I have also mounted the one piece -AN 3 SS line & T56 adapter from Speedway Racing (48" SS -3: PN - 910-31847-3, $14.99 and Adapter PN - 551-1396, $13.99).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I had the flywheel/pressure plate assembly balanced, so I final mounted the entire assembly.
Mounted the crossmember to the engine and have finished replacing seals and gaskets. I have finished painting the accessory mounts (not installed yet) and should have the engine in the car very soon.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Please note that I did remove the exhaust wrap as per Admin. They now have a nice coat of black ceramic.

For comparison I have taken side by side pics of the harmonic balancers.
The stock is the rusty one    Despite knowing the Summit HB was a 25% I didn't expect the size difference to be so obvious. As quoted above by Acorad, I see where there could be an issue with the flow rate of the water pump. So 3 courses of action.

1) Get a nice stock replacement (remember, my LS1 came out of a Corvette, need a Firebird/Camaro for belt drive. Stock will not work.)
2) Install the underdrive and see what happens, hoping for the best...
3) If the underdrive under performs, install an electric water pump.

Any ideas or previous experiences? Input will be appreciated.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you look real close to the HB pics you can see the template I'm using to create a cover for the flywheel/bell housing. I'd hate to scoop a squirrel into the rotating assembly.

Slowly but correctly she's coming together.

Next up:
Engine bay
Torque tube
Clutch master
HB mount

Stay tuned to this channel for more action...

Just a quick update.
I solved the VDO oil pressure sender issue that is on another thread buy making a quick trip to NAPA. I found a 1/8 male/female 45deg adapter for $1.99.
I did get the sensor and autometer adapter from summit.
As you can see below, there was no need to grind anything and it fits in very nicely.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have also finished sanding down and polishing the bump on the TB that seems to enjoy contact with the hood. I'm not certain if I will need to use spacers, but this will not hurt either way.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The journey continues...

Great progress.
I would suggest you stick with the stock 951 fans and shroud, they will move a ton more air than those aftermarket units.

948 wrote:Great progress.
I would suggest you stick with the stock 951 fans and shroud, they will move a ton more air than those aftermarket units.

I do not have 951 fans. Those are the stock 1983 NA fans.
I will not be destroying the stock shroud.
That being said the new fans I'm using should flow over 2000cfm each.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If they don't, I can always switch back to stock.

I do appreciate the comment. Thanks.

I'm now going to address what seems to be and 800lbs gorilla in the forum.

I have purchased and will be using the FAST EZ-EFI LS1 kit.
After ALOT of research it was the best choice for me.
I live in North Dakota. The nearest dyno...isn't.
The kit came with new sensors, the ignition (XIM) control unit, the EFI ECU, all new wire harnesses (very well labelled) and the hand held tuner. It comes with a baseline setting for the LS engine and uses a wideband O2 sensor to fine tune itself.

Here are some pics-

New sensors
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ignition, ECU and Handheld
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ignition Harness
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

EFI Harness
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Wideband O2 and Bungholio
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This pic is the dual remote oil filter. You can see the oil temp sensor mounted. This will run to the oil thermostat and then to the cooler. The cooler return line will go directly back to the oil pan.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have also chose to delete the AC. I plan to mount it (oil filters) where the compressor was mounted. It should have about 1/2 clearance from the steering rack.

I have also upgraded my gauge package. I went with the Autometer Phantom series. Pictured you can see the 10,000rpm tach, the GPS 140mph speedo (the 83 944 used a cable to drive the speedo, now removed). I have custom ordered a "Quad" gauge to fill out the dash. It will have Fuel level, Voltage, H2O temp and US oil Psi. I'll move the turn and high beam indicators to the "nubs" on the Gauge cluster.

In the center council will be the oil pressure (BAR), oil temp and vacuum.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I plan on getting some quality time in the shop this weekend, more updates to come.

[quote="RS Technic"]

948 wrote:Great progress.
I would suggest you stick with the stock 951 fans and shroud, they will move a ton more air than those aftermarket units.

I do not have 951 fans. Those are the stock 1983 NA fans.
I will not be destroying the stock shroud.
That being said the new fans I'm using should flow over 2000cfm each.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If they don't, I can always switch back to stock.

So I came across the winner racing radiator and purchased it as well. It appears the mounting brackets for the turbo fan shroud will not fit. Did you find that to be the case?

I really cannot answer that.
I'm using my NA shroud and that appears to bolt right up.
I may have to move a couple of the mount holes, but it seems to fit fine.
I'll be working on it this weekend. I'll look into it and post some pictures of my set up. Hopefully that can help.

Didn't get everything I wanted done this weekend, But I do have a few updates and such.

I did complete my budget Air/Oil separator. I used a $30 catch can from Ebay, 2 pieces of galvanized steel mesh, a length of silicon vacuum tube, 6 washers, 4 o-rings and 2 rear caliper boots I had from my last rebuild. Hopefully the pics are self explanitory. This design is rather common in the aviation world, which is where I got the inspiration. The tube from the valve cover goes through and below the mesh. The 2 mesh screens are 45deg offset. This forces the air/oil/gases to go through both screens before exiting the can. The screens act as a physical and electro-static (from the constant air flow) barrier to the heavier, higher mass elements. This causes them to condense on the screens and fall to the bottom of the can allowing the air/gas to pass on through to the intake. The PVC valve is placed between the valve cover and the can.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

One important thing to point out is that all edges of the wire need to be contained to prevent possible engine damage from metal ingestion (fliermike knows this as FOD). The small, single strands on the outsides of the cuts must be contained. I simply RTV'ed them before mounting them in the boots and on the washers on the silicon hose.

I will let you all know how well it does or does not work.

I am almost ready to prime, paint and re-line the engine bay. You will notice I have or will be removing all unneccessary brackets and mounts spot welded to the frame and body.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I will be removing and rebuilding the steering column also.

Speaking of steering, mine came with manual steering, that being said I have everything I need to install power steering. Because I'm going with hydroboost brakes, I opted to get a turn one pump. I had them build it up for both HB and PS. The beauty is that if I don't like the PS I have everything I need to switch back to manual   
I got the PS rack and steering shaft off Ebay and saved enought to purchase the rebuild kit, new boots, both tie rods and rod ends for less then I could find a rebuilt rack.
So here are some pics of the rebuild.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

More on the way...
As always, questions, comment and concerns are welcome and encouraged.

jpkinerk - I haven't forgotten you :)I just haven't been able to get back to where the radiator and shroud are being stored. I will attempt to get to it tonight and post pics.

jpkinerk -
I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner.
Here is what I found.
My NA fan shroud does line up with the 6 mount holes of the radiator, however, I am going to have to trim the top sides to fit around the fan temp switch and the top passenger side coolant hose. If you are not using the stock fan/switch set up, the supplied plug on the radiator fits and does not require any trimming on the drivers side.
The passenger side trimming is minimal, just enough to clearance the hose and clamp when mounted.

I will post pics shortly.

Hope this helps.

RS,

No worries. I just appreciate you taking the time! That's good news. However, I have a turbo shroud and fan setup, is this the same? When I purchased the radiator I was skeptikal when it said for NA or Turbo 944's, but this weekend I'm finally going to have all the parts in one place so I guess I'll find out!

Thanks again,

JP

Ok...
So has this happened to anyone else?  

What started out as a (relatively speaking) simple LS1 conversion has become a restoration.
Has anyone else said "...I'll never have it torn down this far again, if I don't sand it down, fix the dings and dent and repaint I will be kicking myself forever!"?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I had installed the dynamat when I installed the stereo. I'm most likely going to pull it and the stock asphalt deadner and spray it all with lizard skin (not a product endorsement) both the sound damping and the ceramic insulating. Has anyone used lizard skin before? Good? Bad? Fantastic?

On another note, the torque tube has been stripped and is serviceable. It appears as though the bearings had been replaced as they are rock solid with no shaft spin in the two outer bearings. smooth with no play.
Once again "...I will never have it torn down this far...", so I'll probably be installing new Uber-bearings.

Thanks to Lart I should have an AOR within a few weeks.
BTW for those who know him, Lart and his family have had a loss recently, lets keep him in our thoughts.

I have finished modding Eric's oil pan line block. I went through a bit of brass to make it work. This will allow me to run the remote oil lines next to the engine, behind the exhaust, under the engine along the crossmember and forward to the dual oil filter assembly I have mounted using the mounting points the AC compressor used. The lines then go forward to a thermostat that connects to the oil cooler mounted in front off the radiator. I'll provide better pics once I have it all mounted and connected.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and yes. I have painted most of the accessories high temp black "crinkle".
The first muscle car I was exposed to was my cousins 1969 RS/SS Chevelle with the 396 big block.
It came from the factory with black crinkle valve covers, air cleaner ect.
Call me nostalgic.

Also, I want to thank this forum and everyone on it. The information and support are fantastic.

More later,

Reed

An update on the exhaust.

My muffler has arrived   

I went with Magnaflo as I have had excellent results with them in the past.

It is a dual 2 1/2" to single 3".

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I really like this series as they are reversable.
I'll run my 2 1/2 duals in and a single 3" stainless resonator tip out the back.
It may actually fool some that the car is stock...until I start it   

Does anyone have any experiance with flexable exhaust pipe?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I plan on welding everything but the x-pipe, for easy removal/maintenance.
It seems to me that connecting the headers and the mufflers to the system with flex pipe would be much easier then bending pipe (especially since there isn't a mandrel bender within 400 miles). I would have better control of the complex bends needed for a custom fit. I could also go back and make adjustments if needed.
Any thoughts?

Later Gators...

I used flexpipe for a down pipe on a turbo race car once. It was easy to do and worked but didn't last very long. Maybe it was the heat from the turbo, but the pipe split after 6 months.

As for your project scope creep, I admire your perfectionism but was careful to avoid it myself. Schedule was important for me to have a good summer driving season. I blew the 4 cylinder engine in September, pulled it out in November and was back out on the race track with the v8 in March.

Rich

Rich L. wrote:I used flexpipe for a down pipe on a turbo race car once. It was easy to do and worked but didn't last very long. Maybe it was the heat from the turbo, but the pipe split after 6 months.

As for your project scope creep, I admire your perfectionism but was careful to avoid it myself. Schedule was important for me to have a good summer driving season. I blew the 4 cylinder engine in September, pulled it out in November and was back out on the race track with the v8 in March.

Rich

Yup.
My buddy helping me keeps using logic against me. He is constantly reminding me that when I am done I will have a virtually new Porsche and I'd have to spend more than double to get a newer one with the same performance. Plus I get to customize this however I see fit.

Was the flex pipe stainless or galvnized?

No, it wasn't stainless.

Rich

Two thumbs up for Lizard skin, good stuff. Scope creep is always a problem, and if I didn't pursue XYZ I'd be on the road. But I have no regrets in my approach, I have chased the shiny object a few times, OK more than a few, but the final product will be worth the wait.