Ford: Engineering nightmare or fun?

I’ll be honest, I’m posting because my post limit isn’t high enough to send MatthewB a PM. So, I’ll introduce myself.

I’ve been a heavy equipment mechanic/fabricator for 35 years and I’m a retired drag racer having done several power train conversions as well as a chassis car from sticks of tubing. I have friends that own salvage yards and tool and die shops and friends that are auto mechanics, most of whom owe me a favor. Looking for a hot rod to tinker with, I discovered the V8 conversions. What better way to address a mid-life crisis than with a red V8 Porsche. I bought an 1985.5 944 for $800 and now it’s parts gathering time. Did I mention I bleed Ford engine blue? The Ford engine isn’t written in stone but I’m looking hard at the 3.7 V6 and the 5.0 Coyote. The Coyote is the current front runner in my mind but I’m concerned about engine set back in the Porsche. I mentioned an LS engine swap and 2 of my friends un-friended me and even my ex-wife, a Chevy gear head and ASE certified cylinder head specialist, said:  “WHY THE H#@! WOULD YOU DO THAT!”

Considering the weight, transaxle and rear tire limitations of the 944, as well as not disturbing the nimbleness of the car, my question is: How much legitimate horse power can the 944 plant on the ground before traction becomes a major concern?

My first thought is that a 944 isn't a drag car... On a road race track with mods it's pretty limitless.

The Coyote is pretty wide.

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That's a 4.6 mod motor next to a 351W. I had to do a custom upper intake with my 302, which would be less of a concern with the Coyote, but I don't envy you in the header department if you go that route.

I have no intention of racing from stop light to stop light, I’m asking about traction because I’ve actually had street cars with leaf springs and traction mods that could boil the tires at 60mph. I hope you mean that hp is pretty limitless with mods, because that’s what I want, just not sure what to expect. Some builders are bumping hp to 500 while others are returning to stock. That’s confusing me a little. I’ve never driven a 944, stock or otherwise.

The 460 is actually narrower than the modular, too bad it weighs 700 plus lbs. I’m not sure headers are even an option on the Coyote, it looks like matthewb shortened and angled the primaries on iron manifolds. I’d have to moc them up entirely from underneath and put velcro on the crossmember, suspension etc.  

The Chevy LS is not off the table. My goal is to have a stupid fast, great handling sports car. The coyote would be my first choice in any car it would fit in, but I’m having doubts. I’m trying to engineer the car the best I can while being brand blind and leaving out the cool factor and engineering ease.

See bottom of the attached item for rough engine measurements...

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I would like to stuff a Mod motor into a 944 as well. Way cheaper to find them and they are more likely to be CA-safe for a swap.

Wow, I didn't know the Coyote is 2" smaller in each dimension than the old DOHC mod motor. I'm not sure how tall my upper intake is, but I would bet it still comes in shorter than the Coyote. My upper is a few inches shorter than the shortest OEM upper intake. It also doesn't get to full height until about halfway back and I don't have a distributor, so my engine is even shorter than the 20.25" height listed.

It seems like the Coyote would be a fair amount easier than the old DOHC, but it also seems like a crossmember drop and custom hood would be in the cards. I'd love to see you do it, though.

I’ve been trying to compare the Coyote to the LS1 since the LS’s feasibility is well known. The LS1 is actually a little longer than the 5.0, the crankshaft centerline to top of intake is 17.25" for the LS1 and 18.5" for the 5.0, so yeah, probably a hickey in the hood. I wonder if the LS gurus could confirm that dimension for me. Both are rear sump so I would expect similar pan and crossmember modifications.

What I am concerned about is whether or not the Torque Tube can be bolted to a suitable bell/clutch/adapter before the driver’s side cylinder head hits the firewall. I’m not afraid to move or recess the fire wall a little bit but I am fond of the HVAC and pedal locations.

haroldk, did you have any problems with engine set back?

racertomtom wrote:
haroldk, did you have any problems with engine set back?

No, I'm close to the firewall, but didn't have to move it. I used a shorter throwout bearing than the LS guys do, so we didn't have to recess it into the adapter plate like they do, but I think the bell housing is the same depth. Of course, my bell housing won't fit a mod/Coyote.

My oil pan is pretty much as tight as you can get to the rod ends without any contact. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to make this thing a stroker without adding crossmember spacers. That's with stock Mustang rod bolts, too. Looks like the stroke in the Coyote is 3.647", so you might not be able to get the ban as tight as I did.

Past the point of no return.
It's just a matter of time before someone dumb enough tries to stuff a Coyote in a 944. Well, just consider me dumb enough! The build is still a long way off as I am currently building a environment controlled work area inside my barn, I hate both 100 and 0 degree days. I am however in a parts gathering mode looking for those can't pass up deals. This is a 2013 F150 engine with 9607 miles, complete with all accessories, A/C comp, Alt, Starter, PCM, fuze/relay box and complete truck wiring harness for $2K. Another truck powered Porsche?
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Any progress on your project?

As far as the car, no. I like the progress on the man cave where the project will take place, gas heat last weekend.  I’m also slowly gathering a pretty good pile of used parts; an appropriate bellhousing has been a bit allusive, but the plan is coming together. I’ll start a build thread if the project proves to be not boring.

ive got a possible solution for your bellhousing. with my ecotec 944 build im using a bellhousing designed to bolt to a t56, and i made an adapter plate to go from the t56 pattern to the 944 torque tube. i have a cad drawing file, i do have to tweak it a little, however id be willing to share it with you if you want to go that route. shoot me a pm if your interested.

PM sent

Any new progress?  I did pick up my engine the other week after I talked with you. Have been out of town a couple weeks so I haven't been able to do any fitting yet but I'm excited.

I am trying to decide if I drive mine as it is for a while now that the weather is getting good or if I pull the engine this weekend and go at it. It's a tough call.

Matthew,

I enjoyed talking with you the other day. Feel free to call anytime. If I had a hybrid on the road, I know what I’d do.

Spring on the chicken ranch is getting in the way. I’ve been gathering parts for the entire build as I find them, not just the engine conversion. The last two weeks it was one 9“ and one 10” rim, a mustang engine cover and a pair of coil covers. It takes a while to buy a car off of Ebay one used part at a time, LOL. The shop is coming along nicely but I’ve yet to touch the car. I’m guessing you have plenty of time to be the first 944 Coyote.

That’s right Ford fans, matthewb (likely the only modular 944) is also going with a Coyote and we’re already comparing notes. Stay tuned!

My friend just scored a Cobra engine with T56 to go in a build and I looked at the detachable bell housing and its large hole would accommodate the 944 TT flange even if it needed inset....

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Oh, man, that would be nice.

Based ony experience with my current engine, he will need a hood scoop or bulge to fit that engine with that intake manifold on it. Maybe he will manage it somehow with more spacers. I hope it works out. I also originally used a bolt on bellhousing and it worked well with a 1" thick adapter spacer on the back end of it. If he has any questions about it feel free to ask.

ive toyed with the idea of a 4.6 2v with a turbo or 2 stuffed into a 944...no worries on fitment, only issue would be finding an aluminum block to start with (saves 80 lbs just like the LS/truck blocks)

there is no better-sounding V8 than a Modular.

The aluminum block engines are really easy to come by and for cheap. All of the Lincoln mark viii's came with them all of the years. There should be plenty in the junk yards. I am currently selling my stoked aluminum block engine because I am switching to the coyote 5.0. Should be pretty sweet when all finished.

xschop wrote:My friend just scored a Cobra engine with T56 to go in a build and I looked at the detachable bell housing and its large hole would accommodate the 944 TT flange even if it needed inset....

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can you make the adapter?
Mod motor BH to 944 tube?

The adapter I made years ago and used for a long time was extremely simple. It was simply s 1" thick plate of aluminum that was sandwiched between the bell housing and the torque tube with the bolt pattern for each machined on it. It was the spacing that was needed for the drivers head to clear the firewall. Reall not much to it. I will take a look and see if I have any pictures of it.

matthewb wrote:The adapter I made years ago and used for a long time was extremely simple. It was simply s 1" thick plate of aluminum that was sandwiched between the bell housing and the torque tube with the bolt pattern for each machined on it. It was the spacing that was needed for the drivers head to clear the firewall. Reall not much to it.  I will take a look and see if I have any pictures of it.

i remember seeing that beast in your pictures!
didn't you have to extend the driveshaft a little bit though?

my only concern is concentricity so the driveshaft is in the right spot!

maybe the SOHC heads arent so big like your DOHC and wouldn't need the forward spacing? I'd be ok moving the trans/tube forward an inch or so if needed.

Yes, had to move the driveshaft forward about 2.5" and make a longer coupler in the rear.

It would take some major firewall changes to move it back far enough to not need the moving of the driveshaft. Or maybe put a spacer on the flywheel to move it back some as well as modify the firewall to move the engine back. But if you do the flywheel then you have the starter problem. I suppose there a lot of combinations of possible solutions.

With coyote I am fitting in now, I am modifying the firewall to move the engine back 1.5 inches which still leaves me needing a 1" longer rear coupler. I think that even with the SOHC you would need to modify the firewall to get the engine back to where you don't need the adjusted driveshaft. My adapter setup now is all piloted to ensure everything is concentric (at least within clearances). I am making good progress on the job. Hopefully will have it running in a couple weeks.

In case anyone is interested, there is a 944 coyote on the road...

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Let me know if the pictures don't work, first time doing them.