Newb 944S LS1 Conversion

Look at a wiring diagram for your ecu. Locate the fuel pump trigger wire. Let me know which ls ecu you have and I will look up the pin number and wire color on your ecu. Pin that wire to 86 on a 4 pin relay. Pin 85 will go to ground. Pin 30 will tie into your battery + terminal. Pin 87 will go to the positive terminal on your fuel pump. Fuel pump ground can be attached to the body. When you turn on your key, the ecu will then turn the pump on for 3 seconds only. Once you crank the engine, the pump will run full time.

I understand the labor involved in retrofitting a factory harness. Did it once and will never do it again

Actually, here you go.

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Look at the ecu connectors. If you have one red and one blue, then this is your pinout.

If you have one green, then you have an 2004 GTO ecu. Would need to look it uP for the GTO.

Yup that was exactly my plan for my new relay with the connections.

When I first started tearing it apart and digging into it I cross referenced the ecu part number and found this on lt1swap.

Matches the same as what you dug up for me with pin 9 on c2 (red)

Thanks for the double check but finally aligned on the same plan will be happy to do the final add, just have to pick up 14 awg wire for the power circuit tie in on output contact since that's a 15A cct. 16 awg too small for that fused cct as per schematic so best to be safe and go with larger gauge even though it's highly likely that factory pump doesn't pull 15A continuous. Best to be safe.

Thanks again on sanity check!

Ls1 ecu pin out for 97 5.7L

So my new relay works perfect can hear it pull in for 3 seconds and drop out. Put a clamp on over the output wire and it drew 8 amps but no sound. Decided to pull it out and try a direct test with a motorcycle battery and again nothing and it had that old fuel smell from when old has has gummed up the jets on a carb so quite sure it's shot.

So what is the best replacement? Rennlist 944 search talks about a Mercedes sel 450 fuel pump that is a good replacement?

But also found this on Amazon for BMW that has identical dimensions and still have to check fitting sizes but looks very similar. Does 140lph and from what I read Clark's garage said factory unit was 102lph.

BMW fuel pump knock off

Thoughts/advice on go to unit for replacement? Seeing some people with stock engine swearing by Bosch.... But to me a pump is a pump if it fits dimensionally and has the right ends/fittings. Yes/No?

Also after seeing Raymond's thread I checked my strainer, no impact required, gasket was great and evidence of silver anti sieze on thread. I think it must have been changed once already. So that was one good thing.

Hvac lines done thanks to Raymond's thread again. I used 5/32 silicone vacuum line and did the heat shrink to the spark plug boot and only used 4mm hard line from all the porsche vacuum boots on firewall and on the tee. Heater valve had to use 1/8 silicone line to 4mm stub on tee.

Bosch 044 will fit in there with a little timing and it flows alot more than the stock pump. It also draws alot more current and you would need to run new wire to the pump

Gutterboy,

Below is text from one of my previous posts when I was wrestling with fuel delivery issues.  I went with the Bosch replacement pump listed... fits perfectly, has the correct input nipple, and the correct banjo bolt check valve.  It cost about $125 at the time.  I'll be posting my fuel pump install saga later today... I hope!

For the fuel line from pump to engine, according to the JEGS Help Center:
Ref:  https://helpcenter.jegs.com/hc/en-us/articles/115012012527-Line-Size-vs-Pressure-Drop
EFI system flow rate and fuel pressure are not particularly sensitive to fuel line size.  Rather, key factors are pump volume and pressure.  The OEM replacement Bosch pump for my ‘87 944S (PN05800464069) produces 39 GPH at 58 psi through a 5/16” line.  The Corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator also operates at 58 psi though a 5/16” line.

Using a B.S.F.C. (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) of 0.50 lbs fuel per hour per HP, and a target 450 HP, my projected required fuel rate is 225 lbs/hr.  
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Since a gallon of gasoline weights ~6.1 lbs, the calculated fuel flow rate for optimum performance is 225/6.1 or 36.9 GPH.  This compares favorably with the Bosch pump output of 39 GPH.

spence wrote:Bosch 044 will fit in there with a little timing and it flows alot more than the stock pump. It also draws alot more current and you would need to run new wire to the pump

not sure what you mean on timing... are you meaning to say that with the different flow rate of the fuel pump that ignition timing needs to tuned to account for this better pump?

either way i think with raymond's 2 cents added and for the least amount of hassle of not having to run a larger wire, i'm probably just gonna do a OEM replacement. Based on your feedback and his it seems like the cheapy one i found amazon could be more problems and time lost on adapting fittings cause of the different metric outlet size than whats on the bosch.

I had already bought TPC's fuel kit so i have all necessary fittings for it to all work if i just shell out some more bucks to get that bosch brand.

i hear ya on the bigger wire required as factory wire at the firewall is truly only 16 gauge which is only good for 10A and with my pump siezed up I saw 8A so anything bigger and you got a problem if not replacing the run with 14 AWG at the least for 15A and potentially 12 AWG if 20A needed.

Thanks raymond for the backstory on calcs on OEM Bosch unit fitting the bill on flow. I'm only gonna hit 385hp maybe 400 if i'm lucky if i eventually find the golden unicorn of an LS6 intake manifold but for the price they go for i doubt it; so i'm probably done with the exhaust I built and the intake build as big as I could get while getting hood to shut and not going through the nose panel.

Raymond-P wrote:Gutterboy,

 The OEM replacement Bosch pump for my ‘87 944S (PN05800464069) produces 39 GPH at 58 psi through a 5/16” line.  

944online shows parts breakdown with the following part number the begins with 944

9446081020104

rockauto shows an OEM replacement with the part number of 69467, furthermore there is also a bosch universal for a bit cheaper with part number 69458.

i can get both the rock auto bosch units through amazon which is most preferable as i pay out the ying yang with rock auto or summit with the canadian peso for american goods but i just can't find where you got your source for that part number raymond when really my 88 944S would be in the same boat and from what i'm seeing it looks like the stock fuel pump is standards across all years of 944 with maybe exception of the turbos and even including the 924S for obvious reasons.

just not able to resolve these bosch part numbers with the 944 part number or the number you (raymond) cites. anyone have what i'm missing here. really looking to just stick new OEM bosch unit and the "universal" one on rockauto with 69458 really looks exactly the same.

TIA

Soooo... hopefully this helps someone else as well in advanced search on this topic as i think i answered my own question with this....

reference on rockauto bosch fuel pump part numbers

so the universal is the same pump even though pelican parts seems to reference the 69467. gonna amazon the 69458 and get another thing checked off the list.

Sorry triming not timing

My bad....what I listed was not the correct PN.   (it had a couple extra zeros!!)

I went back and checked the box and confirmed that I have the Bosch Universal replacement pump for the 944S, PN N69458.  On Pelican Parts it's listed as Porsche Fuel Pump - 94460810206 - Bosch 0-580-464-069.

Associated Part Numbers include: 0 580 464 069, 0-580-464-069, 0.580.464.069, 0580464069, 3165143069998, 944 608 102 06, 944-608-102-06, 944-608-102-06-M14, 944.608.102.06, 94460810206

0-580-464-069 is apparently a Global Product Classification(GPC) number.  Below is the "Rosetta Stone"  from the end of the box.

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Gutterboy wrote:

spence wrote:Bosch 044 will fit in there with a little timing and it flows alot more than the stock pump. It also draws alot more current and you would need to run new wire to the pump

not sure what you mean on timing... are you meaning to say that with the different flow rate of the fuel pump that ignition timing needs to tuned to account for this better pump?

either way i think with raymond's 2 cents added and for the least amount of hassle of not having to run a larger wire, i'm probably just gonna do a OEM replacement. Based on your feedback and his it seems like the cheapy one i found amazon could be more problems and time lost on adapting fittings cause of the different metric outlet size than whats on the bosch.

I had already bought TPC's fuel kit so i have all necessary fittings for it to all work if i just shell out some more bucks to get that bosch brand.

i hear ya on the bigger wire required as factory wire at the firewall is truly only 16 gauge which is only good for 10A and with my pump siezed up I saw 8A so anything bigger and you got a problem if not replacing the run with 14 AWG at the least for 15A and potentially 12 AWG if 20A needed.  

Thanks raymond for the backstory on calcs on OEM Bosch unit fitting the bill on flow. I'm only gonna hit 385hp maybe 400 if i'm lucky if i eventually find the golden unicorn of an LS6 intake manifold but for the price they go for i doubt it; so i'm probably done with the exhaust I built and the intake build as big as I could get while getting hood to shut and not going through the nose panel.

I've installed the 044 Bosch a few times on 944's. Never saw over a 10 amp draw. Never had any issues with wiring. But, we usually bypass the factory wires for the pump now anyway. Always run 14awg on new stuff.

i have what i have been told is the turbo style of 944 reservoir for both the brakes and clutch.

just curious if anyone has any knowledge of how much Ford ATF fluid i should be getting to not only fill the power steering reservoir and 944 brake/clutch reservoir but also what it would take to fill the lines and then furthermore a bit of excess for bleeding the clutch as well as flushing out whatever remaining fluid in the brake lines with the new ATF fluid and then bleed all the brakes.

curious if this would be 3 quarts? more?

Gutterboy wrote:i have what i have been told is the turbo style of 944 reservoir for both the brakes and clutch.

just curious if anyone has any knowledge of how much Ford ATF fluid i should be getting to not only fill the power steering reservoir and 944 brake/clutch reservoir but also what it would take to fill the lines and then furthermore a bit of excess for bleeding the clutch as well as flushing out whatever remaining fluid in the brake lines with the new ATF fluid and then bleed all the brakes.

curious if this would be 3 quarts? more?

The brake/clutch reservoir is Dot 3 brake fluid only. The brake hydroboost/power steering system is ATF.
If brakes system is totally empty, then 1 quart should be more than enough. Hydroboost will hold about a quart, maybe a little over. So 2 quarts ATF is enough.

Do NOT use ATF in the brake/clutch reservoir.

Just realized after re-looking at the hydroboost documentation from Kent that althought the hydroboost is mount in line with the master cylinder it didn't click in till your post that obviously these are complete separate systems on fluids and clutch/brake reservoir is only meant for just that.

i'll probably still flush the old brake fluid through for good measure so might get another quart of dot 3 to be sure.

Thanks for the note on how much ford ATF i need for hydroboost and power steering.

Glad i asked instead of proceeding with that terrible mistake about these systems being separate even though they are in one assembly.

I think i should probably find some deeper reading on how the hydroboost assembly works as i really have no clue what the n2 canister and the rest works. i just know in theory that the power steering pump to this pump is giving better assisted power on the master cylinder's throw when brake pedal is pushed for better braking in principle.

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this one had me scratching my head a fair bit as some other LS buddies of mine had told me i need to make sure my TPS is calibrated and showing .55V for idle.

well, scanned the vehicle with my MPVI3 tool from hptuners and it connected to the vehicle so that was step 1 and a great sign that i didn't have go back into the harness and potentially add pins and wires to ecu. makes sense cause how would last owner have gotten access to ecu to tune if it didn't work.

did a scan for codes and got incomplete on oxygen sensor and oxygen heater but since there are truly 4 banks but you only need 2 i didn't think much of it cause i am getting voltage feedback from my b1s1 and b2s1 o2 sensors. Also verified MAP, ECT, IAT, MAF, and TPS all responding. Great stuff, but now came the part that was puzzling.

even after adjusting the lokar cable i just could not get enough throw of the accelerator movement to be able to get the throttle body to completely shut, and even after calibrating it would still only go as low as 1.12V or basically 7%. I also was having issues being able to get the blade of the throttle body to be completely open. I could only get it to go close to WOT but not all the way in fact only like 87% after adjusting the bottom to this heightened throttle off at 7%. Didn't seem right and haven't read any issues with this.

So looking into how i could get more pedal throw i found a 19mm yellow'ish stopper bolt that seemed to be a WOT pedal adjustment. wrenched that out to get it out of the way and bammo now i can get it to hit the top stopper on the throttle body to fully get 100% and completely open blade on throttle body.

Well if that worked why not hunt for i can't get the throttle to rest higher for more throw to get it to hit the bottom stopper on the throttle body. Sure enough there is a rubber grommet stopper that by pushing the throttle bit and a good shove with a big screwdriver i was able to pop this throttle spacer out and bammo again i now have a proper idle with it sitting on the bottom stopper of the throttle body with blade completely shut minus a tiny bit of pitch from the idle screw.

undid the IAC and TPS sensor and key on engine off for 30 seconds then key off plug sensors back in and new scaling is good to go with .63V in idle position which is slightly more than the .55V because of my slightly raised idle that is no doubt adjusted slightly for my 222/224 cam that engine came with.

haven't seen anything about popping these stoppers out to get proper accelerator calibration with cable and the stoppers and getting TPS happy and if it was covered i'd say there weren't enough pictures to understand what the 'here's a gotcha hint that could hook ya' meant.

hopefully these help others. picture names should guide the story explained above but will title for convenience.  

throttle issue 2 with yellow bolt stopper
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throttle issue 2 showing yellow bolt behind accelerator
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throttle issue 2 fixed with WOT and hitting top stopper on throttle body
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idle pictures (part 1 of 2)

rubber grommet stopper on upper pedal rest
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rubber grommet stopper removed
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idle fixed on lower stopper
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idle pictures (part 2 of 2)

resting on bottom stopper of throttle body and blade shut
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confirmation of .63V with blade shut and throttle at rest with larger throw by removing grommet. .55V expected by idle screw adjusted by previous owner of engine no doubt for larger cam. HPtuners shows 4.69V for 100% WOT
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even though with the nost panel removed i could verify that with hood fully closed that i had a full index finger width between power steering belt and the bottom of my intake i just don't like it floating and merely held by hose clamp tension on the throttle body and the onslaught of additional hose clamps on the silicon couplers to the air filter that some what props up in the corner of the fender to support it.

Made yet another aluminum bracket for support but this one definitely ain't pretty after all the beating i gave it to take shape over the popup headlight bar. Nothing a wirewheel can't fix for the brushed aluminum look.

hood still closes, albeit a bit forcibly. definitely stiffened it up.

although this works quite well and is highly serviceable, if I knew what i know now of this tight fit and fight with the popup headlight bar, I would have gone through the nose panel with the 120 degree vibrant pipe Hotrodz of Dallas (Bob) recommends.

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while cleaning up some of my mounts and brackets to my better liking as well as buying many of the fluids i needed for getting this thing ready for first fire; started thinking about what is needed to get this thing truly roadworthy and being able to pass an inspection.

I've noticed several times while leaning on the front of the car now that there's a full engine bay of weight that the front sinks quite easily.... Shouldn't be a surprise that front shocks from 1988 are no good so that leads me to the next question in regards to what's the easiest replacement. I did an advanced search as well as googling and youtubing and I have to say compressing a coilover spring is the absolute last thing I want my face in front of. But it seems like this is unavoidable to replace since it's not like a truck where you simply unbolt from the top with wheel off and there's no tension at all and the whole assembly drops out?

So even if that's what i have to do my next question is the one I am really curious about. Would much prefer to replace the entire assembly than muck with have to play with existing assembly to install new strut.

from what i have read on paragon (from advanced search link by others), as well as a crazy good German (i think) mechanic on youtube with a concrete pit for working under the car. you have to make an open split socket (not hard) but then make another tool for tightening the assembly collar (which he doesn't give details on). Now granted his video was for doing the bilstein strut insert and the paragon instructions seem much simpler with less custom made tools being required for the koni's.

Is mod'ing your existing strut assembly the only way to go or is there simply a complete buy new part available on the market? Or is the answer that "yes there is but be prepared to pay a boatload of cash for it, especially at your cheap canadian peso after exchange". Best case would be a slight premium as a safe bet rather than buying new struts and then find I messed something up and now i need to buy whole assembly anyways. Not that I count on screwing up but i've had many things along the way on this build that i've either had to redo or undo and then do properly cause I learn by doing and have never done a swap prior to this, let alone a 944 swap.

Would be wonderful to get direction on this so it doesn't delay my goal of getting this thing in a state of being able to be insured as I doubt it would pass with how soft it is on the front end (not that i know exactly the criteria for it to be recertified).

What year is your car? Does it have the Sachs strut bodies?

It's an 88 944s

That's quite the link there. Definitely matches my description of a boatload of cash but with that being all four corners and the details on ride height and dampening/recoil options that's quite a to notch solution.

Love it. Crazy good recommendation Bob. Your on point as always.

But some of my car buddies made a good point. I'm judging my low mile car potential strut failure without having front sway bar back on as well as tie rod torqued back to spec. Should probably put all that back together and then test the bounce/compression of the front corners and such?

944S should have the Sachs struts. So the Koni inserts are a nice way to go. You can rent or buy a spring compressor fairly cheaply. Please note, if you buy the Koni insets, then buy the matching rear shocks. They are valved to work together, front and rear. But, the cost of the Koni's is not much less than the full coilovers. If mine, I'd do coilovers, and get rid of the rear torsion bars.

So tightened up tie rods to spec and the put front sway bar back on while making sure the rubber cups seated nice and true, jacked up the car and torqued to spec then dropped and voila.

Saw the sway bar spring into effect as slowly dropped the car from my center jack on the lift and when I brought the car down to test the dampening and recoil of strut it seemed as good as my turbo'ed scion frs.

Guess it helps if you bother to finish putting it all back together before you start declaring there's another problem. Lol

That said those ceikas as a set are a sure thing for the want list when it comes time. For now I'll focus on first fire and getting this thing back on the road!

Just gotta put the axles Rob (xschop) sold me ions ago together with my new gkn cv boots and grease. I went ahead and bought brand new hardware with nord lock washers as opposed to re-using the cheesheads. Will be following Raymond's write up on that install and got my cold rolled steel already for making the guide pins as he suggests to help make sure I keep those mating surfaces spotless and clean. New fuel pump comes tomorrow and after I mount my ecu in passenger well it's gonna be time for fluids! Already ran my wires and have pigtail for VSS so that should be quick when I do drivers side shaft with cv's.

Finish line in sight.... But slow and steady no rushing. Came this far...

Was watching a rear 944 suspension video on YouTube by van svenson I think from 9 years ago. He mentioned that coilovers use a spherical bushing vs a rubber bushing and that if you remove the torsion bar with those now all the load is through the coilover with no wear point. He did say some people have no problems but use caution.

Is there something super unique about the lower mount on the rear coilovers to the control arm with the ceikas?

My concern is wearing out that lower mount and destroying the lower control arms as they potentially ream out from all the stress being centered there with all the load weight taken up there in an abandoned torsion bar.

Irrelevant? If so how?
Ceika no doesn't elaborate on the how

Would love to know