944Hybrids: 924/944/968 and 928 V8 Conversions
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HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:59 am

Bob, that did cross my mind. I may be in trouble. I have no choice on the covers so I may have to explore MC options.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty AC Compressor Replacement

Post  Raymond-P Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:52 am

Greeting forum friends!

The engine oil galley is primed, and I’ve replaced my original TPC motor mount bushings with upgraded units provided by Kent at TPC.  (See my post “TPC Motor Mount Bushing Upgrade.”)

While I’m waiting for forum input on solutions for my header/starter contact issue, I figured I might as well share my AC compressor upgrade.  Recall that I wanted to retain my AC but I thought it would be complicated and likely delay my “Start-Up” date.

The bottom line is an advanced forum search produced a post that lead me to the website DirtyDingo Motorsports and a Sanden SD7B10 LS Low Mount AC Combo Kit for the LSX motors, Model #DD-LS-SD7B10-LM-KIT $420
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The post was titled AC Parts Reference from Porsche951 or LS3 but I can’t seem to find it again.  BTW, I did copy it to my PC if anyone is interested.

I had some trouble ordering this kit on the DD site because at checkout, I was getting a “SOLD OUT” notice, but they advertise on E-bay also and I was able to place my order.  Same price.  I probably could have called them directly and ordered the kit.

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<Factory Porsche AC Compressor>                                                   <Dirty Dingo Low Mount AC Kit>

The DD custom mounting brackets and AC line adapter are very well made, and everything fit together perfectly.  The supplied hardware works for multiple engines and the installation instructions are very clear on how to use the optional holes and spacers.

Here is the link to the installation instructions that are on the DD website:
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As per instruction, all engine block hole threads were chased with my Craftsman M10-1.50 tap, and the M10-1.50x25mm Button Head Allen bolts received a dab of anti-seize.  A little goes a long way!!

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<Chasing the M10-1.50 Threads>                                                               <Anti-Seize as directed>

For my 2002 Pontiac WS6 LS1, the middle mounting holes are the ticket, and I used a 6 mm Allen Head socket to torque them to 28 ft-lbs.

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<Middle Mounting Hole for WS6 LS1>                                                      <Bottom Bracket Installed>

Next, the lower compressor ears are slid over the lower bracket so the M8-1.25x100mm hinge bolt can be inserted. This bolt fits through both compressor ears and threads into the front compressor ear.  It should remain finger tight at this point.

The top mounting bracket is then installed in similar fashion but with custom aluminum spacers to clear a local block casting.  The top bracket bolts are M10-1.50x40mm Button Head Allen bolts.

The compressor is then rotated upward to line up the top bracket with the compressor holes. The front bolt is an M8-1.25x20mm Allen Head bolt and threads into the front compressor ear. The rear bolt is an M8-1.25x40mm Allen Head bolt and uses 2 stainless washers and a lock nut to clamp the steel bushing in the top rear compressor ear to the mounting bracket.  
Note: I had to reposition the steel bushing so the compressor ear would fit into the bracket.  I used a scrap bolt and nut with some washers as a makeshift press to do the job. The top and bottom compressor bolts were then torqued to 18 ft-lbs with a 6mm Allen Head socket.  

During final tightening of the compressor bolts, the bushings are seated in their proper place.

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<Bottom Hinge Bolt Installed>                                                                    <Top Bracket Installed>

The last step was to mount the AC Belt Tensioner to the lower mount.  The mounting hardware provided is two 10M-1.50x50mm Allen Head bolts, SS washers and 17mm lock nuts.  Importantly, custom aluminum spacers are provided for proper alignment with different harmonic balancers.  Bolts were torqued to 28 ft-lbs.

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<AC Tensioner Provided>                                                                          <AC Tensioner Installed>  

I used the spacers for a WS6 LS1 but my ATI Super Damper AC pulley threw a wrench in the gears.  When I checked the pulley alignment, the tensioner was set too deep.  Fortunately, the quick fix was to use the next larger aluminum spacers, and all was well.  Now the belt will ride on the front 4 ribs of the AC compressor pulley vs. the rear 4 ribs.

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<Misaligned Tensioner Pulley>                                                  <Properly Aligned Tensioner Pulley>

I measured the belt length to be 34.5 in. so I’m thinking a 34 in 4 rib belt will do the trick.  I’ll provide an update with the exact belt I end up using.

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<Completed AC Compressor Installation>

Below is a final engine pic with all the accessories in place.  If the starter wasn’t in contact with the header primary, this engine would be ready to install.

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Next up, I finished the engine bay heat shield installation … finally!

Plus, I should have some scoop on the starter issue.
Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Hey_Allen Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:43 pm

Since your engine was built from the scratch, do you know how the new AC compressor from DD compares to a stock F-body compressor setup?
I know that the one I have from a 98 Firebird has the AC plumbing coming off the rear of the compressor, instead of the side like your new compressor, but I'm curious just how much difference in physical size they may have.

That said, your build is looking good!
(Mine is still in the parts collection stage, for the most part. COVID shutdown didn't happen, so work/sleep etc...)

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Hotrodz of Dallas Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:00 pm

Hey_Allen wrote:Since your engine was built from the scratch, do you know how the new AC compressor from DD compares to a stock F-body compressor setup?
I know that the one I have from a 98 Firebird has the AC plumbing coming off the rear of the compressor, instead of the side like your new compressor, but I'm curious just how much difference in physical size they may have.

That said, your build is looking good!
(Mine is still in the parts collection stage, for the most part.  COVID shutdown didn't happen, so work/sleep etc...)

The aftermarket ac kit is more compact and the fittings are on the side, so much easier to make hoses for. Plus the factory compressors are meant to only work with the gm ac controls due to how it controls pressures. The aftermarket just relies on the clutch kicking on and off to control pressures, which is how the 944 controls are designed to work.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Hey_Allen Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:11 pm

I hijacked the AC code from a truck/van application, and fed the ECU a phony pressure sensor reading by way of a resistor grafted into the harness.
High and low pressure switches for safety, wired in where the stock single switch was, and just tying the Porsche AC command to the GM ECU AC request input...

I'm not sure how well it'll work, but from my understanding, it should function with an expansion valve based system.

That said, the side ports would make plumbing it much easier, as you said. I've been eyeing adapters to get the hoses off of the back of the compressor, and the few that I found are $50 just for a 90° adapter block to route them toward the top rear of the compressor.

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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:52 am

Hey_Allen wrote:Since your engine was built from the scratch, do you know how the new AC compressor from DD compares to a stock F-body compressor setup?
I know that the one I have from a 98 Firebird has the AC plumbing coming off the rear of the compressor, instead of the side like your new compressor, but I'm curious just how much difference in physical size they may have.

That said, your build is looking good!
(Mine is still in the parts collection stage, for the most part.  COVID shutdown didn't happen, so work/sleep etc...)

Hey_Allen... Thanks for the kind words!  I too started with a big box of parts and just kept adding, but unfortunately I never had a stock GM AC Compressor so I can't answer your question.

I do have a lead however on what seems like a decent site for AC Components that I found:
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For more direct results, it was suggested in my forum reference document to do a search on eBay with the phrase:
"BEADLOCK FITTING, 'SHORT DROP' CRIMP ON, FEMALE O RING, 90 DEGREE #8 SB1322SD"

I hope you find the hardware you need.
Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty New Heat Shield

Post  Raymond-P Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:15 am

It took a couple hours but I finally got the new heat shield on.   As a reminder, below is the product I used.  I needed two packs ($25 ea.) to do both sides of the engine bay, and each had a 12 in x 24 in piece of material.  The adhesive backing worked quite well.

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<Cool It ThermoTech>                          

Installation was simple but tedious…. establish the desired location, punch any necessary holes, make any necessary cuts, peel off the backing protection, and press into place working from one end to the other.

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<Passenger Side Before>                                                                    <Passenger Side After>                                        
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<Driver’s Side Before>                                                                         <Driver’s Side After>

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<Completed Heat Shield Installation>

Bring on the engine!!
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty LS Mini-Starter Installation

Post  Raymond-P Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:44 am

Getting closer....

In my post “TPC Motor Mount Bushing Upgrade” I discovered two problem areas after reinstalling the upgraded motor mounts.  They are repeated below:

1. There is a gap between the back flange of the passenger side mounting plate and the new bushing.
2. The header tube is now touching the starter.

Problem Area 1:  This is the only location where there is a misalignment.  Most likely, this gap was not visible with the old urethane bushings because they compressed enough to hide it. There is no front flange gap, and there are no gaps in the driver’s side connection.  I’m leaning toward letting this ride unless someone knows it will be an issue down the road.


Resolution: I removed the header to address the starter issue and then loosened the motor mount connections to the cross-member and the upright bushings (on both sides).  I also removed the engine load with the hoist.  I was hoping there would be a “normalization” of any play that might be causing the misalignment.  Unfortunately, there was none.  Once I torqued all the connections again, (starting with the bushing bolts) I still had the same gap.  Therefore, I’m chocking this condition up to a glitch in the weld-up of the flanges on the passenger side mounting plate.  Kent at TPC advised me that they have already redesigned their motor mount fab jig and welding process for improved fabrication on current offerings.  My plan moving forward is just to keep an eye on it.

Problem Area 2: I’m not exactly sure how the 1/16" clearance I used to have disappeared. but I don’t want to modify the header tube. I would much rather purchase a smaller starter.   Anyone have a suggestion??? The starter I have is the stock 2002 Firebird starter.

Resolution: Thinking back, the 1/16” clearance I thought I had, may have been bogus.  After that measurement, the first time I used my new dip stick to check the oil, I noticed the mounting bracket was loose….and it is held on by a header bolt.  Turns out, all the header bolts were loose, so I torqued them all down (again) to 18 ft-lbs.  Bye bye clearance.  Since the motor mount upgrade and reinstall clearly revealed a starter/header conflict, this confirmed for me that purchasing a smaller starter was the way forward.  Modifying the header primary was not an option at this point.  So…. after some research, I purchased a JEGS LS Mini-Starter for $175, including tax and shipping.  This starter is advertised to be smaller than stock.  To confirm this, I called JEGS for exact dimensions, but they are not really published, so the tech gave me approximate ones from a PowerMaster unit which is very similar.  

Bottom line was I needed to do a test fit.

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<JEGS LS Mini-Starter Package>

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<Comparison with Stock 2002 WS6 Starter>

For all those searching for starter dimensions like I did, below is my documentation of dimensions for both starters:  All dimensions are in inches.

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<Starter Dimensions Table>

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<Dimensions as Shown>

Bolting up the LS Mini was a piece of cake.  I torqued the mounting bolts to 37 ft-lbs as per GM spec and dry mounted the header with NO GASKET.  I now have nearly 1/4” clearance again… although not much at the housing seam overlap.

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<Test Fit Installation Clearance>

Next, I removed the header and pulled the LS Mini off so I could connect the crankshaft position sensor lead from my wiring harness.   This would be a bear with the starter and header installed. Unfortunately, the sensor lead interferes with the solenoid and the starter could not be installed.

The solution was to clock the starter to rotate the solenoid away from the engine.  This can be done on the LS Mini by removing 3 Allen Head bolts that connect the mounting flange plate to the starter motor and rotating the assembly.

BE CAREFUL HERE…The Allen Head bolts are small, require a 4 mm wrench/bit, and are seated very deep in the flange bores precluding use of my 4 mm Allen Head socket.  My first attempt was with a standard 90 deg. Allen wrench.  This was a failure as the short leg of the wrench was just a shade too short to fully engage the bolt.  Because it was tight, the wrench slipped and I managed to slightly round the Allen head.

Next, I tried a 4 mm screwdriver bit combined with a 1/4 inch driver bit that I could turn with a small crescent wrench.  Even with this setup, I had to insert a flat washer fragment in the driver bit so I could maintain enough pressure on the 4 mm screwdriver bit to keep it fully engaged.  This worked… but only on the two undamaged bolts.  For the damaged bolt, the 4 mm bit just would not grip sufficiently.  I desperately tried pounding a long T27 Torx bit into the Allen head using a small hammer.  Thankfully that did work and I got the 3rd bolt out.

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<Allen Bolt Removal Tools>

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<Clocked Starter Flange>

I rotated the starter one hole on the flange plate and reinstalled the Allan Head bolts with some blue Loctite.  I had no way to torque them so “good and tight” will have to do.

Next, I put some heat shield on the starter and remounted it torqueing the new bolts to 37 ft-lbs again as per GM specs.  I ended up removing the bell housing altogether for enough access to check the required gear clearances without standing on my head.  In hind side, I should have done all this when the engine was on the engine stand.

The JEGS installation instructions say the pinion gear clearance with the flywheel is supposed to be within 0.060” – 0.140”, but it was more like 0.190” (3/16”).  This was out of tolerance but I wasn’t overly concerned as most problems are with too little clearance…that’s why they provide a shim so you can move the motor housing back.  

However, pinion gear engagement in the flywheel was now questionable.

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<3/16 Inch Pinion Gear End Spacing>                                                     <Energizing the Solenoid>

To check the pinion gear engagement, I energized the solenoid with my Stanley FatMax portable 12V battery pack.  Positive on the solenoid ignition terminal and negative (ground) on the mounting bolt.  Be careful the positive clamp touches nothing else.

Industry videos target 2/3 ring gear engagement and by my estimate it is 70% so I’m good to go!!

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<~70 % Pinion Gear Engagement>                                            <Gear Tooth Clearance Schematic>

Next, I had to verify clearances between the pinion and flywheel gear teeth. The target side clearance is 0.020” – 0.025” as per JEGS instructions, but this is difficult to measure.   The industry videos, however, call for a 0.030” – 0.035” gear tooth end space (Blue Arrow in pic) which is apparently the size of a standard wire paper clip.  The paper clip I used was 0.032” and it just fit!  Again, good to go.
The JEGS kit includes shims that can be placed between the starter mounting flange and the block to increase the clearance if needed.

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<Gear Tooth Clearance>

Moving forward, I reinstalled the bellhousing and the header (with gasket) and I was expecting great results.   While I gained the starter motor clearance I wanted, clocking the starter has moved the solenoid power terminal such that it’s just touching the header.

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<Final Header Clearance>                                                              <Solenoid Power Lead Contact>

Once again, in hind sight a 360 degree clockable starter would have prevented this problem.

I’m going to apply some heat shield on the solenoid, then try and rotate the solenoid power connection wire, and move on….

I’m so glad I got into this before the engine was in the car… it all would have been 10 times harder.

Good luck with your starter adventures!!!!

Next up… hopefully the ENGINE test fit.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Hotrodz of Dallas Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:30 am

Those must be the old style TPC headers. The new ones have a ton of clearance now.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:16 am

Bob,

Yes I believe you are correct.  I'm not surprised that someone encountered this issue before and that the folks at TPC corrected the problem.  Hopefully for me, the bit of heat shield I added plus the advertised heat resistance of the LS Mini will be sufficient to afford a decent starter life. I have no other header clearance issues... that I know of.

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<Final Starter Clearance>                                                                      <Final Dip Stick Install>

I got the starter primary lead moved and now I have a minimum of 1/8" clearance between the applied heat shield and the tightest spots.  Plus...I finally got my custom dipstick locked down where I want it.


Last edited by Raymond-P on Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Text edit)
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Starter, Alternator, & Ground Wiring

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:13 am

Forging ahead, one of the last things I believe need done before engine installation is to route and connect the starter ignition and power cable.   Mounting these after engine installation looks extremely challenging due to limited access.  Now is a good time to source out what I need.

My concern is what size wire/cable should be used and can the factory Porsche cables be used?

Alternator Cable
The LS Alternator is located low on the driver’s side of the motor, like the Porsche.  The Porsche factory alternator charge cable appears to be AWG#6 and connects to the power terminal of the factory starter motor.  It is clearly not long enough for the LS application regardless of its size.

Using a string, I measured a path from the alternator to the positive battery terminal along the block, behind the intake, and up to the battery box.  The required length I came up with was 82 inches…Say 7 Feet.  This length should also work if I elect to run the cable along the driver’s side frame rail.  Either way, it will need heat insulation due to proximity to the header.

The next question is what size cable is needed.  In my research I came across a very informative website, Onallcylinders.com which has a great article on High Output Alternators with MSD and Powermaster as contributors:
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The required charge cable size is a function of amperage draw and cable length.  My new LS alternator has an advertised power output of 160 amps, but I understand the actual generated amperage is based on the system draw.  I estimated the total electrical draw of my car with every system on simultaneously and came up with about 150 amps.  Obviously, that never happens, but 100-120 amps is realistic.  My initial reasoning for opting for a high output alternator was anticipated reduced net output due to my 10% underdrive harmonic balancer.  I went back and checked and my HB/Alt pulley ratio and it is still a shade higher than 3:1 which is what I need for street use.

Using a table provided in the article, a 7 ft. long charge cable with a 100-125 amp load, the recommended cable size is AWG#4.

Conclusion:  Purchase a new 7 ft. long AWG#4 cable.

Starter Cable
Next, I measured the factory Porsche starter cable at ~9 mm (bare) at a location where the insulation was deteriorated and easily removed.  The equivalent solid core wire diameter is 9.0/1.13 = 7.96 mm and identifies this as AWG#2 cable.  The cable is longer than I need which and requires reconstructing the lug end at the proper length, however it has some serious insulation damage with 100% loss over a 12” length.

Using a string, I measured a path from the starter to the positive battery terminal.  The required length I came up with was 50 +/- inches.  

Conclusion:  Purchase a new 51” long, AWG#2 cable.

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<New Starter Cable and Shrink Wrap>

Ground Cable
Same as starter cable but a bit shorter.  This #2AWG cable is in pretty good shape and I plan to reuse it with a bit of new shrink wrap insulation repair at the block connection end.

After some digging around, I sourced my new cables and shrink wrap from BatteryCablesUSA in Jeffersontown, KY and was very pleased with their product.  You can customize your cable length, color, wire size, and lug ends and they are reasonably priced.
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51” AVG#2 Red Starter Cable w/M10 and M8 lugs:………..$16.75 (plus tax & shipping)
7 ft AVG#4 Alternator Cable w/M10 and M8 lugs:…………..$17.84 (plus tax & shipping)
Heavy Wall 3M ITCSN Heat Shrink Tubing
Adhesive Glue Lined Tubes 1 Foot Lengths:……………………..$14.00 (plus tax & shipping)
8Ft total, 0.40”, 0.80”, and 1.10” diameters

For any wiring that even comes close to the headers, I picked up 20 feet of heat insulation from my local Advance Auto parts store and a roll of silicone tape from McMaster Carr. The advertised protection of the DEI loom is 375 deg. F.

DEI 3/8” dia. Easy Loom Split Line Sleeve:……………………..$34.00 (plus tax)
Self-Fusing Electrical Tape, 1" Wide
30 Feet Long, 0.012" Thick, Black:……………………………………$10.52 (plus tax & shipping)

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<Completed Starter Wiring>

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there’s enough clearance between the firewall for the wires and wire clamps!!

Engine test fit….coming soon!!
Raymond-P
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Urethane Stiffening of Transaxle Mount

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:58 pm

In the process of preparing the drivetrain for installation, I have been advised to upgrade my rubber transaxle mount by stiffening the entire unit using an 80A-durometer urethane encasement.

In reading back through the various forum threads, the simplest approach seemed to be damming off the mount within the support bracket and pouring in the urethane.  

On the plus side, there is much discussion about reduced TA torsion and lateral movement under hard cornering which jams the axle CV cage and can lead to premature failure.  Some avid racers actually go for a fully rigid mechanical mount.

On the negative side, some folks have experienced increased shifter and chassis vibration with the stiff mount which leads to discussion of using softer/lower durometer urethane.

At the end of the day, it’s a personal choice based on how you plan to use your car.  In my case it will be an occasional track car, mostly for charity events, and a full time “cars and coffee” kind of ride.  Maybe a Power Tour or two down the road.   So… I’m going with the 80A-durometer application.  

Below is a Shore Hardness Durometer Chart compliments of the Smooth-On, Inc website for those that might be contemplating a different hardness:

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Step 1:  Clean up the TA Support Bracket
For this effort, I first removed 34 years of road dirt with my pressure washer.  Then I disassembled everything attached (TA mount, fuel filter bracket, and vinyl edge guard), and used a water-based degreaser to clean-up anything that remained.   It is important to thoroughly clean the mount itself and the surrounding bracket area to obtain good adhesion of the urethane.  I bead blasted and repainted the mount and fuel filter bracket.  There were a few places on the support bracket where some paint was missing so a bit of sanding, a wipe down with alcohol, and a repaint was in order.  My clean-up effort was weeks before this upgrade, so everything painted was thoroughly cured.

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<Support Bracket Before and After>

Step 2:  Damming the TA Mount
I cut cardboard dams to fit up against the steel mount anchor plates and used a small, rolled bead of windshield mounting adhesive to seal up the interface with the support bracket.  The forum advice forewarned me that this needs to be a really GOOD seal.

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<Cardboard Dams Installed>

Step 3:  Mix and Pour the Urethane
Once the dams are set, you will need to find a decent outdoor spot to mix and pour the urethane, and to set up the support bracket where it won’t be disturbed for 24 hour required cure time.  Be sure to level the support bracket both directions to get an even result.

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<Checking Set-up with a Torpedo Level>

I followed the forum advise and purchased an 80A durometer urethane 1 lb. “kit” from McMaster-Carr. It’s’ called a kit because the base material and activator are premeasured to ensure correct mixing. The kit comes with good instructions, safety precautions, and even a mixing stick.  The key of course is through mixing and you have plenty of time before any thickening begins…. like 15 minutes.  It takes 24 hours to fully cure.  Here is the link:[url= [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [/url]

Forsch Polymer Corporation
Urethane Casing Compound
80A Hardness, 1 lb. Kit
Part number# 8644k11:……………………..$31.91 (plus tax and shipping)

Once thoroughly mixed, I poured the mixed urethane in just up to the support bracket lip.  As the urethane finds all the nooks and crannies, some air will be released, and the level will go down.  This should happen in the 1st 15 minutes so you can just add urethane as needed… you will have some left over.

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<Urethane Casting Compound Kit>                                                         <Pouring the Urethane>

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<Completed Pour>                                                                        <Final Result after 24 hours >

The complete project turned out well and was relatively simple.  After the 24-hour full cure time, I trimmed the cardboard flush with the top of the support bracket.  Notice in the pic that capillary action of the urethane filled the cardboard corrugations!!  Shocked  No point in removing the dams…not sure I could anyway without serious butchering.

Be sure you have a good seal on those dams, or the urethane will escape, and you’ll have a huge mess on your hands.

Many thanks to all those who did this before me and took the time to provide guidance on this forum and others!! Very Happy
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Plucky948 Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:11 pm

Good job with the starter. Definitely use heavy duty heat protection on starter wires and run them block side. With the Jegs unit you should have more header clearance than I did with cvr 5414 its a cm away from the hot bolt on mine which I dislike if bolt ever backs out. Good block ground and tie head ground together on back.. And the header flange measure clearance on control arm. When you get to making the Y pipe put the O2 sensors inside facing to run the wires because outside has nothing to bolt to and you will have to drill the floor and run wires over exhaust to get wires to harness.
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Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:47 pm

Thanks!

I appreciate the O2 sensor advice too.  I checked my header collector/flange on the starter side and with my 2013 TPC headers and the JEGS LS Mini starter, I have plenty of clearance.

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Post  turbobob924 Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:41 pm

Great stuff
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Final Driveshaft Projection Check

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:31 pm

Okay folks….one more time around the block on this one.  

In my project thread, I went through some detailed measuring and calculations as to what the correct driveshaft projection should be for my setup, and I came to a mathematical conclusion of 5-7/8+”.  At this value, I was convinced that the driveshaft nub would be fully engaged in the flywheel pilot bearing.

So, as I’m preparing to install the motor, I did some perusing of my Greg Sloan conversion manual to double check for torque settings on the TT adapter bolts.  In the process, I reread the TT installation guidance and was reminded of the specified distance from the edge of the TT housing to the rear end of the drive shaft.  It lists this dimension to be 49 mm +/- 0.5 mm.  Mine measures 51.92 mm which is nearly 3 mm “OUT OF TOLERANCE!”  Is it possible the drive shaft is OVER inserted in the pilot bearing???

Once again, doubt crept in as to whether I have the proper drive shaft nub insertion in the pilot bearing…regardless of my calculations, so I reached out to Kent at TPC to get his thoughts.  

Being the voice of reason (like so many others on the forum) he convinced me that I should just bite the bullet and look at it.   I had been resisting this approach because I just didn’t want to disassemble the back of the motor.

Well…… Pulling the bellhousing and pressure plate off the motor was not that big a deal after all, and bolting on the bell housing and TT assembly was easy enough.  Plus, I finally got to use the C5 removeable cover to see what was going on.  
To my joy, the drive shaft nub was fully engaged!!!!  This also corresponds to the back of the drive shaft being flush with the back of the TT tunnel.

Once again, as us nerdy engineers often say, “Math doesn’t lie!”

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<Full 100% engagement of the Driveshaft Nub>                 <Drive Shaft Flush at Back (51.92 mm)

While I had it all apart, I took some measurements just for posterity!  They are shown below:

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<Depth of Drive Shaft Nub>                               <Craftsman 3/8” 3/8” Drive Socket in Pilot Bearing>

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<TPC Adapter Extension 0.419 in.>                           <Square Groove position for DS/TA Coupler>
<Pilot Bearing Contact Width: 0.43 in. +/->

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<Engine and Torque Tube Ready for Installation>          

I am very happy to move forward now with installation of the motor and torque tube.  That will be next!


Last edited by Raymond-P on Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Installing the Motor…AT LAST!!

Post  Raymond-P Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:51 pm

To get started, I removed the AC condenser coil and dryer unit just because I had the extra room afforded by an empty engine bay.  Since I replaced the AC compressor, I’m going all the way and replacing the rest of the system.  I also cleaned up the newly exposed front panel sheet metal.

Then I disconnected and removed the Porsche hydraulic clutch slave cylinder and line, and temporarily moved the wiring harness for the front lights to the top of the driver’s side inner fender.  I’m still a little undecided where the best permanent home is for this wiring.

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< Clutch Slave Cylinder and Line>                                                    <Front Light Wiring Harness>

My college buddy Bob arrived at 9:15 AM to help with this “historic moment.”  

The first order of business was to raise the MAXJAX just enough to roll the engine and torque tube assembly under the car.  This required disconnecting the engine hoist after we were done with most of the moving.

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                                                   <Engine and Torque Tube Ready to Roll>

Note:  We needed to relocate the transmission jack under the TT housing in order to raise it high enough.

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                          <Front and Side View of Engine and Torque Tube in Position>

Note the composite plank under the oil pan and the timber plank under the cross-member.  More on that later.

Now the fun begins...lowering the MAXJAX slowly to drop the chassis onto the cross-member while watching all the potential interference along the way…particularly the Ford Hydro-boost.  Definitely a two-person job!

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<First Chassis Drop>                                                                            <Second Chassis Drop>

So far, all clear….

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<Third Chassis Drop>                                                                            <Fourth Chassis Drop>

Still good…but at this point the DS header was beginning to contact the frame so we had to roll the assembly back slightly to fit within the factory contour of the frame rail.  Also, there are several small threaded posts for cable clamps on the DS inner fender that should be removed to avoid inference with the header.  

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<DS Holley Valve Cover Modification>                                                        <Fifth Chassis Drop>

As you all know already, coil packs #5 and #7 had to be removed at the onset to clear the Hydro-boost.  
Prior to making the fifth drop, it was clear that the #7 Coil pack lower mounting boss of the Holley valve cover was going to interfere with the Hydro-boost.  My Saws-All with a long fine-tooth bimetal blade was perfect for the “surgery.”  Plenty of clearance now!  A pin hole was observed in the casting after the cut, so I capped it off with a bit of windshield adhesive just in case the hole went through the cover.  

At this point we were close enough to position the 1/2” TPC aluminum spacers.  Then we tried starting the new M12-1.5 x 80mm Class 8.9 bolts using the factory heavy washers.  It is imperative that you start these bolts BY HAND to avoid cross threading the factory embedded nut in the chassis frame.  You just don’t want to go there!!!

Note that the cross-member has slotted holes on the driver’s side but not the passenger side.   This accounts for irregularities in chassis manufacturing and gives you a bit of position flexibility to get the bolts started by hand.  

We struggled starting these bolts by hand due to a bad angle between the engine/cross-member and the chassis.  Lowering the height of the transmission jack under the torque tube helped but not enough. Ultimately, we put a floor jack under the cross-member timber support plank so we could remove the composite oil pan support plank.  This resulted in enough rear tilt of the engine/cross-member that we could align the bolt holes.  Once correctly aligned, we slowly raised the engine and torque tube with the floor jack until the cross-member contacted the chassis.  We were then able to successfully hand start the connection bolts.  Once you get one started, a bit of shifting the assembly helps get the others started.  All were then secured just wrench tight (19 mm) so the floor jack could be removed.

We did not use the engine hoist to lift the engine at all…

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< Cross-member Connection w/TPC 1/2” Spacers>

Final bolt torqueing along with blue thread locker will occur after all connections are normalized.  

Next, we installed the rear seat well transverse strut and the torque tube support bracket.

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<Rear Seat Well Transverse Strut>                                             <Torque Tube Support Bracket>  

The four M10-1.25 x 95mm Class 8.8 transverse strut bolts were installed by hand and tightened with a 17 mm hex socket just wrench tight.  Once I figure out the installation of the emergency brake cable, I’ll torque them to 45 ft-lbs. (Ref. Fastenal Bolt Torque Chart)

The four M8-1.25 x ~50 mm Class 8.8 support bracket bolts were installed by hand, then torqued to 25 ft-lbs using a 13 mm hex socket.  

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                                                   <View of the Bell Housing>

Clearances around the engine were good except for one head pipe of the passenger side header.  It is currently in contact with the frame rail insulation.

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<PS Header Contact>                                                                   <DS Bell Housing Clearance>

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<DS Chassis Clearance>                                                                    <PS Chassis Clearance>

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                                   <The New and Improved Engine Bay!>

This has been a HUGE milestone event and I’m doing my happy dance, but there is much more to do.  I’ll keep plugging away.  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
 
Next up…among other things, restoration and installation of the power steering rack.


Last edited by Raymond-P on Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:32 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Photo Edit, torque value/ref.)
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Header Clearance Options?????

Post  Raymond-P Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:58 pm

Once again, I’m turning to the learned forum community to help me decide the best course of action to resolve my header clearance problem.  If you have any “this worked for me” experience, I would very much appreciate hearing from you!

In my last post, the four relevant pics are shown below.  Cylinder #6 head pipe of the PS header is in full contact with the frame/heat shield that I installed.  The heat shield is only about 1/32” thick and I tried to squeeze a thin sheet of aluminum in the potential gap, but there is NO SPACE.  It’s tight!  

On the DS, the bell housing is about 3/16” clear of the tunnel insulation so there is room for a shift in this direction but not much and I know the cross-member can’t move.  The DS header collector flange has plenty of clearance between the A-arm mount, so no problem reducing that a bit.

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<PS Header Contact>                                                                       <DS Bell Housing Clearance>
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<DS Chassis Clearance>                                                                           <PS Chassis Clearance>

One last thing I checked was the angle of the torque tube since the support bracket and transverse strut provide only vertical support and have no physical engagement.  There is not much lateral space for movement in the TT tunnel and the TA ultimately dictates the lateral position of the TT.  

Theoretically the TA end of the TT could have been shifted to the PS which would contribute to the problem.  But as it turns out, the DS forward dog ear of the TT is all the way against the side of the tunnel and the PS dog ear has about 1” of clearance. What a Face  Centering the TT will be necessary to connect the TA and will require about 1/2” of movement toward the PS.  I tried moving it by hand with no success.  Clearly the header is preventing the required movement.   Something must be done to create the necessary clearance so the TT can be aligned.

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                                              <Torque Tube position in the TT Tunnel>

I took some rough measurements to determine how much header clearance is needed to afford moving the TT 1/2".  The approximate distance from the front dog ears to the offending header pipe, is 5.5 ft.   The distance from the header pipe to the motor mount (pivot point) is approximately 6".   Therefore, to move the back of the TT 1/2" at the front dog ears requires a swing angle of tan-1(0.5 in / 65 in) or 0.44 degrees.  Using the same trigonometric relationship, the required dent in the frame to provide clearance for this alignment movement would be tan 0.44 x 6" or 0.046".  That’s a little less than 1/16", but I'm just going to say 1/16".  

Now, from what I understand, the LS motor will “rock” about 1/8” to 3/16” or so toward the DS between load and no-load conditions (someone please correct me if I’m misinformed).  I'm estimating it will rock the opposite direction about the same amount under deceleration.

So the way I see it, I need 1/16" for installation alignment + 3/16" for engine movement, or 1/4" total clearance modification…minimum.  Below are my options:

A. Do Nothing 
    The engine position may normalize post start-up creating the required clearance.  It’s unlikely I’ll be
    able to connect the TA with this option.
The next two require dropping the engine and TT… (12-bolts, MAXJAX, floor jack, trans jack)
B. Frame Modification  ~1/4” depression in the frame.
C. Header Modification.~1/4“ depression in the header.
D. TBD Forum Guidance??

I’m leaning toward Option B right now because I don’t see a significant impact on frame strength, and I don’t want the inside and outside powder coat damage of Option C.  

It just seems logical to drop the engine now and fix this issue before I connect everything else.
If there is a better solution I don’t know about, I would love to hear it.

I’m looking forward to your input.  TIA!! Smile

In the meantime, I’ll be in the garage replacing the boots on my steering rack!
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Hotrodz of Dallas Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am

Drop the engine and dimple the frame. I have had to do this on a couple of 944's before.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:23 am

Thank you! I really appreciate your input. The voice of experience is always comforting, even if it means a bit more work in the short term.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  948 Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:14 am

I think it is important for that TT to be centered down the tunnel; alignment of the shifter, exhaust, and transaxle are all dependent on it....albeit ever so slightly. 

I also clearanced those areas by adding a concave feature to the frame rails. It was quite easy to deform them, with no detrimental effects to the paint.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Re: Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:51 am

Gentlemen... THANK YOU!

I feel much more enthusiastic now about dropping the engine and modifying the frame. Getting my ducks lined up for making the modification tomorrow.
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Header Clearance – SUCCESS!!

Post  Raymond-P Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:58 pm

I followed the encouragement of HOTRODZ OF DALLAS and 948 and moved forward with OPTION B -Frame Modification.  Once again my buddy Bob came over to assist.

To get started, I lowered the car using the MAXJAX until the TT rear housing could be supported by the fully extended trans jack.

Next, I put my hydraulic floor jack under the front cross-member using a 2x4 for cushioning.

We removed the cross-member mounting bolts and TT supports and evenly lowered the engine/TT assembly as much as the floor jack would allow.  (More on the mounting bolts at the end of this post.)

Lastly, I raised the MAXJAX and lifted the chassis above the top of the engine, so we had easy access to the PS frame rail.

The first order of business was to check the profile of the original frame surface.  Note in the pic below that we marked the boundaries of the header tube with a Sharpie to accurately perform the modification.  The original frame surface was completely flat.

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<Straight Frame Surface>                                                            <Frame Modification “Tool”>

To get a smooth curvature on the modification, I used a 1-1/4” socket on the end of a 1/2” drive power bar as a make-shift dolly.  A little duct tape helped hold it on.  With the engine out of the way, I could easily use a hammer to get the job done quite nicely.

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                                                        <Frame Surface Modified (3/8”+ inch)>

I was shooting for 1/4" but opted to go a little deeper just because I didn’t want to do this twice.  I also worked a clearance path of this shape down the frame rail to prevent interference during engine installation.      

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<Header Clearance – Final (Front View)>                          <Header Clearance – Final (Top View)>

SUCCESS!!  I now have a good 1/4” clearance and the TT is centered in the tunnel.

Now… about the mounting bolts.  The factory connection uses M12-1.50 x 75 mm Class 8.8 bolts and 5 mm heavy steel washers.  My 2013 TPC kit came with similar new bolts that were 80 mm and 1/2" aluminum spacers.  From the photo below you can see about 10 mm of bolt engagement in the embedded frame nut that the cross-member bolt threads into.  With the 1/2" spacer in place and reusing the 5 mm heavy washer, the 80 mm TPC bolt only engages the embedded nut 2 or 3 threads.

This was not giving me a good feeling, so I purchased new 90 mm bolts ($4.20 ea.).  Now, with the 1/2" spacer and the 5 mm heavy washer in place, the bolt will fully engage the embedded nut.

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<Factory and TPC Mounting Bolts>                       <Factory and 90 MM Mounting Bolts>

For final assembly, each of the cross-member bolts were started by hand, then all snugged tight, and then each removed and reinstalled one at a time with blue Loctite and torqued to 63 ft-lbs as per my Haynes Manual.

To wrap things up, the TT support bracket and rear seat well support were reinstalled with the bolts treated with blue Loctite and then torqued to 25 and 45 ft-lbs respectively.

Clearances are good all around and alignment is good for the TA installation.  I’m a happy camper! Very Happy

Next up…. Installing the PS Rack.


Last edited by Raymond-P on Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:10 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Formatting)
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Post  Rich L. Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:24 pm

Late reply, but I had to create some clearance in this manner as well. Glad it worked! And I particularly like the price on those bolts... $4.20 !! LOL
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Ray's 1987 944 LS1 Build & Swap - Page 5 Empty Power Steering Rack (Part 1)

Post  Raymond-P Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:07 pm

With the cross-member/engine installed with ample clearances, I could now focus on reinstalling my Power Steering rack.  This particular rack is a rebuilt unit that I purchased and installed back in the late 90’s and documented the replacement process for Clark’s Garage.   It was my 1st documentary as a Porsche owner.  Below is the link if you ever need to swap out your PS rack and would like to read a blow-by-blow account:  
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BTW…that article got me an “honorable mention” on Page 68 of Greg Sloan’s 944 V8 Conversion Manual!!  Woo-hoo!!  …always happy to help!

Anyway, my PS rack has less than 10K miles on it but has not aged well.  The internal seals seam to be intact as it exhibits no leaks even after some full turn steering to get the car out of the yard and into the garage.  The tie rod end ball joint boots, however, were completely shot.

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                                                                  <Extracted Rack >                                      

One nice thing about the Hydro boost swap is the required replacement of both the factory high- and low-pressure lines.  My low-pressure line was deteriorated and leaking, plus I stripped out the Allen head banjo bolt connection (1 red dot) trying to get it off.  Note that I had to cut the hose to make the extraction. The high-pressure line is still in good shape and so is the factory banjo bolt (2 red dots).  

I no longer need any banjo bolts (YAY!) but if you do, here’s where you can get them with a Hex head:
944 Online
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They are not cheap but do come with new cooper crush washers.  I purchased two new bolts before I purchased my HB kit thinking I would need them, but I don’t.

For the boots, I picked up two new ones from 944 Online made by Beck/Arnley in Italy.  They came with four (4) SS pull clamps.

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<Old and New Rack Ball Joint Boots>

As with every part I’ve removed and reinstalled, the PS rack got a good clean-up and cosmetic overhaul.  In this case, 20+ years of crud was removed using various wire wheels and my cordless drill.   I sprayed the bare metal with zinc rich primer followed by 2 coats of black automotive acrylic lacquer.

Part of the process was to install the new TPC HB kit fittings in the high- and low-pressure ports.   These fittings adapt the M12 threads of the steering gear ports to AN6 and include a new O-ring seal washer.  

A BIT OF TRIVIA: AN is an acronym for Army-Navy and the size specifications were established by the military back in World War II.  Originally, they were used in the aerospace industry.

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<New M12/AN6 Adapter & Seal Washer>                   <Tie-Rod End Ball Joint and Exposed Rack>                            
After a thorough cleaning of the gear box contact surface, a drop of oil on the new O-ring seals, and a touch of blue Loctite on the first 2-3 threads, I torqued them each to 15 ft-lbs.  This is what my Haynes Manual prescribed for the steering gear feed and return lines and makes sense for an O-ring seal.  Note that too much thread locker will end up on the O-ring compromising the seal.

Before installing the new ball joint boots, I lubed the exposed rack and ball joint surfaces with white lithium grease.  Then I put some of my NAPA Sil-Glyde lubricant on the tie-rod ends to help slide the small end of the new boot around the “corner”… and a bit on the small end rubber grommet on the tie-rod.  Fitting the boot ends into the receiving grooves on the rack was easy enough.  

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<New Boot in Place>                                          <Tie-rod End with new M10 Nut and Lock Washer>

Note that repair manuals require replacement of the tie-rod end retaining nuts for safety purposes.   The factory units are deformed locking nuts and are not supposed to be reused.  As before, I was not able to locate replacements, so I used new M10 nuts with new lock washers and blue Loctite.

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                                              <Cleaned-up PS Rack Ready for a Trial Fit-up>

I roughly aligned the tie-rod ends and raised the rack for a test fit.  I did not install the SS pull clamps anticipating that I might have to rotate the boots slightly for proper alignment.

Alas…another set-back!!  What a Face

The high-pressure lines from the gear box to the rack piston interfere with the oil pan.  The lines both cross above the mounting brackets and as visible in the mock-up pics below, there is little available space between the oil pan and the PS rack mounting bracket.  In fact, there appears to be just one- or two-line diameters.  Note in the pics how I managed to ding the new paint off one of the lines.

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                                <Mounting Bracket on the PS Rack>                              

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                         <Mounting Bracket on the Cross-Member>

Moving forward, it seems that I need to remove these lines and reconfigure them with my tubing bender so they fit between the Mounting Bracket and the oil pan.

I’m open for suggestions if there’s a better way.

In the mean time, the steering knuckles, wheel hubs, brake calipers, and ABS/wear sensor wiring all need some serious attention.  Hopefully by the time I finish rebuilding and refurbishing these items, some forum experts will weigh in. Smile


Last edited by Raymond-P on Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:11 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Text edit)
Raymond-P
Raymond-P

Posts : 373
Join date : 2013-06-29
Age : 68
Location : Beaver, PA

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