HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Hood clearance

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Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:53 am

Hi,

Looking for about 1/2" of additional hood clearance. From reading other posts here on the board, it seems as though spacers or modified crossmembers are helpful to gaining hood clearance. I would rather not resort to spacers if possible.

My setup - all from 944v8.com:

Moroso modified pan
Urethane mounts
Unmodified crossmember
GTO sourced LS1

Currently the oil pan (Moroso modified from 944v8.com) is about 1/4" from the crossmember on the passenger side. This seems about as close as it should be considering the motor will rock a bit when running.

Question: is this enough clearance between the pan and crossmember?

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Center hood support is trimmed, which should gain about 1/4" or a bit more:

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I have not test fitted the hood since trimming it. However, it may need a bit more clearance than I gained from trimming the hood support. The area that interferes between hood and motor is the high spot on the throttle body. Is it possible to trim the 'nose' off the top of the LS1 throttle body? It looks as though there's possibly an air passage in there - has anyone tried this? See Red area on photo below.

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Any other ideas for gaining a bit more clearance?

Thank you in advance.
Dan.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Admin on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:01 pm

1/2" spacers if you want a 1/2" of clearance. I know you guys have been told you can drop the motor and go with shorter up rights, As I have said before , it isn't going to happen! You have been misinformed. If you want more hood clearance, Change your oil pan and get new uprights. Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:16 pm

Understood - I'd rather not use spacers if possible. The uprights & Mounts I'm using have enough adjustment to drop the motor. Limiting factor is the passenger side of the pan and the crossmember.

The oil pan was only modified on the driver's side. It does look as though the same modification to the passenger side of the oil pan would allow positioning the motor 1/2" lower in order to gain the necessary clearance with the hood.

As it sits today, bottom of the pan to the steering rack is about 1/2" clearance currently and pan to crossmember is 1". Modification to the passenger side of the pan would be needed to lower the motor further.

Is there a reason the LS1 Moroso pans from 944v8.com (and most I've seen pics of) are only modified on the driver's side? I don't recall from looking at my motor if there's a clearance issue inside the motor with the crank, bearings or scraper that prohibits modifying the passenger side of the pan.

Thanks,
Dan.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  xschop on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Hey Dan, It is easier just to grind off some of the passenger's side rack mount from the X-member than to mod the passenger side Moroso. Worked like a charm for me anyways.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:24 pm

I believe it was thought that the passengers side did not require the mod. I had to though. The passengers side steering boss was in the way of dropping the engine any further.

Now why exactly DONT you want to use spacers?

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:39 pm

Spacers and reason for avoiding them - this is a track car set up with solid bushings, coil-overs and cup suspension. Before starting the conversion I had the chassis on a body shop frame machine to make sure it was completely straight and symmetrical.

Everything I've read indicates that 1/2" spacers will alter the roll center and suspension geometry.

My 1st preference is to modify whatever possible before considering spacers.

Valid? I'm not an engineer but it seems like a reasonable approach.

There's a 1/2" clearance issue right now. By trimming the hood I may have gained the room needed to resolve the issue. It looked to me like trimming the top off that throttle body + trimming the hood would do the trick for sure. If so, no spacers are needed. If not, I could modify the passenger side of the pan, or use spacers.

To summarize options in order:
1. trim hood (done)
2. trim TB (possible - not sure)
3. modify pan
4. spacers

Thanks guys!
Dan.

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:45 pm

I hadn't though of modifying the crossmember - that's a good idea. Do you think that structurally it is ok to grind and smooth out that steering boss?

Thanks,
Dan.

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:04 pm

I personally would mod the pan..... I know I know..... Mad

BIG NOTE: If you do this or have someone do this, make damn sure the pan is bolted down on all 4 corners. These pans will warp otherwise!




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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Admin on Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:07 pm

You can modify the pan all you want, If it has a 1 3/4" deep front are, which I believe the moroso does, You will not do any good for yourself except waste time and head ache. I know I do this for a living. The parts that you got from Greg were made to be used with the spacers. If you don't want the spacers, throw the pan in the trash and get one with a 1" depth or just give it up. If you want more hood clearance, grind the top of the Tb down. If you 1/2" right now , you probably have more than most people.

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:14 pm

Ok - thanks for all your well reasoned input. I'll sort through the options and let you guys know what works.

Again, thank you.
Dan.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  xschop on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:16 pm

There is another option that I have seen another member do and I will follow suit on the next swap....
Line bore the X-member to control arm holes upwards by 1 to 1.5". Doing this and trimming the passenger steering boss (Only near the bottom boss support and X-member will give pan clearance and still be just as strong) will get another 1" -1.5" drop. I have exactly 32mm drop but made a bump steer kit for mine at the steering knuckle. On my next swap I am going to line bore the X-member and fab up 1/4" steel tie-rod to rack drop brackets and not mess with the spindles.

Here's a pic of something similar except I'm going to tap the adapter M14 x 1.5 for the power steering tie-rods. If you wanted to do this to the manual rack, you could simply bolt the tie-rods on with M22 x 1.5 bolts as the manual tie-rods are female....

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Porch on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:38 pm

Just put the darn spacers in there... Razz

Here's what i did to make up for the spacers.

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  xschop on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:43 pm

There you go. But what did you do for the steering knuckle at the spindles?

Hey Dan, I saw your gallery and you can trim the TB to the top bolt of the IAC all the way up to the front near the "LS".
Also I will say it again, what is the distance between the rear driver's head and the firewall?
I got another 1/2" hood clearance after moving the engine back another 5/8" and still had firewall clearance.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Arthropraxis on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:26 pm

Here is an option
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  944convert on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:40 pm

yeah, but Alan said it won't fit if you're using a power steering pump. And he doesn't think it will fit with the oem power flip headlight mechanism. And he still had to cut a rib a little on the hood.

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Arthropraxis on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:43 pm

I didn't think he would need the flip up lights since he said it was a track car.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:26 pm

Cyl head right now is under 1/2". I'm using both Greg's firewall reinforcement plate and Eric's Wilwood MC mounting plate. The two combined us up a bit of room. Having said that, where's adjustment available in the fore/aft engine mounts? At the transaxle mounts?

I may try moving the motor back a bit if I can...so thanks for the suggestion. If only by a few mm that will help with clearance between the steering shaft and the #5 header.

BTW, it will be street legal so that I don't have to trailer to the track - and I want to keep the lights. That's a good option though.

List of options:

- Trim TB
- move engine back as far as possible
- Trim hood
- Modify pan (may not be feasible due to oil pickup line clearance)
- Trim crossmember
- Spacers
- Be done with it and thow on a blower and suitable hood scoop!

Thanks to everyone who's contributed ideas.

Dan.





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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Porch on Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:57 pm

Spacers and blower are the only options that will work!
You'll see when you get there.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Marky522 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:14 pm

I know another way that works and cost me less than spacers... Its just sitting there now, it will come down a little more when i do final placement... Currently working on wiring...

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Porch on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:33 pm

Are you saying you're going to cut the uprights down a bit?

I have a 1/2" spacer, my oil pan is 1/8" away from the crossmember (which i cut some material out of to gain more clearance), and i still had to clearance my throttle body to clear the hood.

Oh well, we can talk about it all day, or you can just see how it fits when you get there!

I forgot to mention the third alternative--Eric (Admin) sells a complete replacement crossmember that solves all the problems in one fell swoop.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Marky522 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:50 pm

Nope, I Shouldnt have to cut my uprights, I should be able to slot my motor mounts a little more to get it sitting even. If not, then I have been toying with the idea of making solid mounts anyway, so i could just do that. Im trying to avoid cutting XSChops hard work into pieces...

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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Dan J on Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:54 pm

So you modified the center of the cross member? That's pretty interesting. I'm not sure I have the skills or engineering degree for something that ambitious. A quick question - is the steering rack repositioned or in the same place relative to the original setup.

Regarding custom crossmembers - once they are totally sorted out and ready for sale, that will be a great alternative. Eric is working on a design. Seems like a crossmember with matching uprights and mounts will be a nice option for those who want a plug-n-play kit setup.

If curious, I snapped a photo last night with the hood closed all but that last 1/2". TB is removed in the photo.

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Thanks,
Dan.
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Re: Hood clearance

Post  Marky522 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:01 pm

Honestly modifying the corssmember wasn't bad, hardest part was finding an even spot to measure from for the initial cuts to the x-member. Then I had to take it to a shop to have plates welded onto the aluminum so I would have a flat flange to mate to. Then I bolted the two pieces into the car where I had previously marked there location with a paint pen, lined it up and bolted it in. I then cut up flat pieces of plate the same size as the ones I had welded onto the crossmember pieces, and cut my piece of 2x2 I believe to fit between the plates. Then I welded it in. For the rack mounts... That was more work in trial and error than anything... Was trying to over complicate it, ended up taking 3/4" steel making the same c-notch that's already in the crossmember and welding it to the crossmember. My only complaint is that when drilling and tapping for the rack, one of my holes was misdrilled and if you look at the pic the cap doesn't sit straight, it'll never be an issue, but I don't like how it looks...

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