HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Another broken axle-help

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  xschop on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:13 pm

I know I clearly remember sending him one. I was able to move my tranny side to side +/- 1" before I did the Polyurethane trans mount on mine, so I'm a little worried about the condition of the driver's CV's as well. But it was only under the power of the 4 banger. If you install the V8 and hammer down, the factory rubber mount will allow the tranny to torque to the drivr's side. I designed my mount to fix the side torque at the same time eliminating the noise from a full solid type mount....
This type would fix the problem but has major gear noise to go with it...

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  Luke714 on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:56 pm

how about bracing the transaxle?
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  948 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:58 am

Al, the stock OE type 2 joint is most likely weaker than a stock GKN 944 CV, material and heat treat differences; do you know the origin of the type 2 joints used on your driveshafts?
"Performance" CV's, like the EMPI's, have a CrMo cage and a more durable outer housing material than the OE type....

Do you have detailled pictures of the failure for us?
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:05 am

The transaxle is nicely fixed in place with Robs mount. I started to pull the axle last night and will finish shortly.I'll lay it out and do some measurements and see exactly what I'm dealing with. I have a local guy that does a lot of sandrail stuff. If need be I'll make adapters and shorten up a 930 set up. This seems to be the remaining weak link. Hopefully fixing this won't result in the transaxle being the next weak link.I had thought that staying on street tires would have been enough to prevent these issues. I guess a 265 Goodyear F1 on a hot Florida day produces pretty good stick.

I'm at about 390 lb/ft at the tires. Certainly not extreme by any standards.I will have some measurements later on and will have thoughts from the axle guy as well.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  xschop on Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:21 am

948 is right about materials used and what's funny is the Blindchicken Racing write-up shows the 944 joint (doesn't look heat treated) next to a Type-2 joint that has been clearly heat treated...

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What I'm stressing is if you stick in brand new CV's, even a brand new factory rubber trans mount has too much side to side slop due to it's suspended hanger design. It was okay for the 4 banger, but not the V8 torque slap that will kill even new CV's muck quicker.
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:13 am

Ok everything is apart and ready to go to the shop. According to the link (thanks) I have a Type 4 axle and cv joint. The only measuring anamoly I found was the ball diameter. The web site shows it at 17.9mm and mine spec'd out at 19mm. I tend to believe my measurements. Otherwise everything else specs out to type 4. Thoughts or comments? I'm thinking the type 2 with the bigger cages and balls might be better for strength.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  xschop on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:21 am

I just posted a DIMENSION question in a recent thread about the 87-up 944T CV's that are 25 spline. Are your CV's 25 spline? I know that BMW has 25 spline 86mm PCD CV's and I'm thinking that the German Pirate pirat just got some BMW CV's off the shelf when the 944 Turbo came out.....I want to know for sure. Even So, a good quality material Type2 CV with proper heat treating would be stronger than what you just posted.
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:39 am

My cv's are 33 spline.I'm going to discuss my options with the axle shop. On my way now.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:51 am

Ok, he's going to think it over and see what he can come up with. It splits the cage for the balls at the thinnest part of the cut out for the ball to fit in when it fails. The type two is about 1.5 mm beefier per side in that area but he's not a fan of using the bigger ball. It reduces the cage cross section area. No sign of the axle "over plunging".

In the meantime I'm going to do some more research on alternatives. Thanks everybody for the help and I'll update when I hear something from the axle shop.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  944-LT1 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:24 am

I fear that after installing stronger CV's that the torque tube driveshaft is next if the transmission shafts dont go first. bom Something has to go!!!!

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  xschop on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:30 am

That is also strange as the Type 2 has a ball track O.D. of 67.52mm and the Type 4 has exact same at 67.53. So the cross section strength is not compromised although larger 20mm balls are installed, the inner ball race is probably a little thinner between the ball interface and axle splining on the Type 2 by 1.25mm (20mm-17.5mm/2). Also does your CV cage look like the machining of the type 4 cage in the pics? The Type 2 cage is definitely stronger where it counts in the pics there.
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  948 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:47 am

Al, the fact that the cage failed is a strong indication that something went out of limits...more than likely excessive axial movement.
If you are going the 930 route, I suggest the following.....If you have an early offset car you can purchase a forged CrMo stub axle from EMPI CLICK ME!!; you may have to mill out the A-arm for radial clearance but it is otherwise a bolt in item. Then you will have to modify the trans output axles to accept the 108mm CV.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  turbobob924 on Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:37 pm

SB what ARP bolts you using?

I keep bending/breaking bolts myself.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  962porsche on Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:17 pm

i blow my right side apart coming out of the pits . i run full slick tires so i feel the it broke becouse it was an axle with 129k miles on it . i replaced it with a new one from porsche and it has held up fine for the last 5 races the car has done . one thing about rebuild axles is they recut the CVs were the bearings races are . when this is done it cuts out the hardening (temper ) layer of the metal . the reman axles do not get retempered they just install new bearings and reinstall the CVs on the axles and sell them to you . so even if you go get remaned 930 axles you still have weak CVs on them . you need new CVs not rebuilt ones .
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  xschop on Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:10 am

Amen to that too. Rebuilt CV's should be re-carbeurized, then tempered at the races. This would be evn stronger than factory CV's. But the reman shop doesn't go that extra step because they want you back soon for another set. I can confirm first hand that the Type 2 CV's from a VW bus are 20mm balls, heat treated and slip right on the NA axles splines....FYI
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:00 am

I just use a standard ARP bolt the right length, diameter and pitch. I called ARP ansd told them what I was doing. I also found some 12.1 hardness socket head bolts at the local bolt shop. The ARP's were hard to get a socket on once they were in place. New cv's are in and holding up good, so far. I had to do a clean and rebuild on my electric brake system.Sitting in the garage in Florida cause all kinds of mositure problems. I also rearranged things for a remote brake resevoir. Much happier. Brakes are back to being awesome!

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  948 on Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:18 am

Al,
I use a 12.9 grade socket head bolt on my VW's and Porsche's; they only cost ~$10 for 25!!
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IIRC correctly I had to shorten the bolts for use on the outer drive hubs as they protruded and rubbed slightly on the A-arm casting......measure the stock bolts to be sure.

Also, I torqued the 12.9 fastener ~ 40 Ft-Lb.
BTW the factory bolts are grade 8.8
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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  sbwrench on Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:05 pm

12.9 is what I meant! the ARP's are 45mm long for the outter because of the reason you state. Actually 48 would be perfect but they are hard to find. Mostly Jap oem stuff. You can get away with a 50mm long bolt if you use the oem spacer plate. 50mm works fine on the inboard side.

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Re: Another broken axle-help

Post  948 on Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:24 pm

Al, I know that you meant 12.9.
I wasn't pointing it out, just also sharing my source for the high tensile bolts Cool
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