HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Cooling System

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Bridar on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:34 am

"if you have a steam vent, or flush point at the top of the upper radiator hose"

I think that you are correct, but I could not fit a flush point into the upper radiator hose because of how I positioned the air intake (I actually had to run a piece of stainless tubing under the air intake to use as part of the hose, to make for more space). My steam vent line was not the high point and was burried as well. So the Flush fill seemed like the easy solution. It worked for me.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:19 am

Well, it appears that I'm having similar problems getting the air out of the system. Everything filled fine, I think I put in 3.5 gallons of coolant Shocked However the temp gauge steadfastly creeps up until I shut it down, I don't know if the computer would do it automatically but I don't want to wait and see. It acts like there must be some vapor lock somewhere keeping the coolant from circulating through the radiator. I'm running what is shown above in the diagram. The temp needle doesn't jump around or anything as if it's encountering air pockets, it's very composed but it keeps on rising Crying or Very sad

-I plan on buying this: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (Thanks again for the link 944-LT1)
How do you go about using the petcock to get the air out? Do you just let it sit and the air will collect at that point and you bleed it off? Any advice on the procedure would be good.

-Also, I don't fully understand what the "Steam Tube" does that comes off the head. If you have the system bled and aren't overheating why do you need a vent off the top of the head? I currently have it running to the expansion tank, which is under pressure. Does it need to be at atmospheric pressure? If it is would the system bleed itself, is there a check valve in there or something. I just can't find a lot of information on it.

-I don't have the heater hooked up right now either, just a little U-bend Very Happy
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Bridar on Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:52 am

I think that the sight glass from Jags that run would only work for bleeding the air if the petcock were at the absolute top of the system. The sight glass still may be usefull to see if there is any air, though.
I would think that the procedure would be to open the petcock while the engine is running until you see no bubbles in the sightglass. You would probably want to open the petcock before the system gets hot and builds pressure so that you are not scalded.

My understanding is that the LS1's have to have the vent lines because there are some points within the coolinlg chambers of the heads where the air can become trapped and never leaves. I think once the air bleeds out, they really serve no function because the chambers are then completely filled with coolant; unless your coolant level gets low again. I don't know how important this really is, though, because I think I had read somewhere that on later engines they were reduced in complexity, or perhaps completely eliminated, but the later heads may have been different as well. The early LS1 tied the front and rear bleed lines together. The later LS1's kept them separated. That is why if you ever want to put an LS6 intake on an older LS1, you have to grind out some of the plastic ribs on the underside of the intake in order to make it fit.

I could not bleed my cooling system from the steam lines because it was just too difficult to try to find a good place to open the lines without either spilling coolant everywhere or having to remove many other components.

Here is a pic of where installed the Radiator flush port on the heater line. The pic was taken before the port was installed, but the arrow shows the location on the passenger side.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:03 am

maybe just running the engine with the cap off the expansion tank would do the trick. It sounds like I shouldn't have the steam line plumbed into an area that is at pressure or air will not bleed. I'll try disconnecting the steam tube from the expansion tank and running the engine with the cap off the tank as well.

Since I really want to have this figured out next weekend I think I'll get the petcock anyway, the top radiator hose for me is pretty close to the top of the system.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  948 on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:22 am

You need to run the engine steam vent to the very top nipple on the upper rear of the coolant tank. Also, you should have a steam vent from the upper radiator area to the same upper nipple on the coolant tank, just like the fatory did.....air likes to go upwards.
Plug the rear most nipple on the coolant tank, or get an NA tank.
When you bleed the system:
- Put the front DS side of the car as high up as you can.
- Open heater valve.
- If you have a mechanical WP; bring the engine RPMs up a little, 1500-2000, and hold it there for a minute or so.
- Open any bleeder screws as needed.
- Leave the cap on the coolant tank and allow the system to cycle to full temp/pressure and then cool.
This will help draw some of the air pockets out too.

Try this 2-3 times, you should be set. Even the stock 944 is a pain to bleed....
Did you replace your T-stat?
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:31 pm

The thermostat is the other question. The CSR housing doesn't accommodate the stock thermostat, is there a low profile unit that I can use. What do you guys do about that.

I just reattached the steam hose between the expansion tank and the radiator steam vent. I think that setup is almost exactly the same as what was on the car originally. It sounds like I need to run the steam vent from the heads to the same spot right? Right now the vent from the heads goes to the rear most nipple of the tank that you said I should plug.

The heater core is not hooked up right now, it's just a u-bend hose.

I'll order that Petcock/sight glass and put that in the upper radiator hose too. My only other question is whether having the forward nipple of the expansion tank teed into the bottom radiator hose is OK.

You guys gave me enough things to try, I'll let you know how it goes

Thanks!
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Re: Cooling System

Post  948 on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:04 am

Yes tee the both steam vents into the upper rear most nipple on the tank.
Regarding the lower most forward tank nipple: I have it tee'd into the upper radiator hose....
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:00 am

Do think it's a problem on the lower hose? I can't think of why it would matter....
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Cooling system

Post  Max Energy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:14 am

Guys,
I would suggest not teeing off the radiator. This can cause a steam lock condition.
The Steam vent should go directly from the LS engine to the top of your existing tank.
You can plug the fitting on the radiator. I actually drilled and tapped my Radiator and installed a plug.
Max
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:28 pm

Well, I'm still having problems Crying or Very sad

I think it might have something to do with where I have the steam vent line coming from the radiator. There is the existing hose that comes from the top rear of the expansion tank and did go to the nipple on the top of the stock 944 rad. All I did was re-attach this hose to the nipple on the fill neck of the Griffen radiator. There must be air trapped in the top of the radiator because the nipple on the fill neck won't actually lead anywhere until the pressure on the cap has been exceeded, right? I think my next move will be to get the fill neck cut off and have a little nipple welded on. I may end up plugging it up or venting it to the rear of the expansion tank, apparently Max had luck just plugging it.

I've plugged the larger rear port of the expansion tank and re-routed the steam vent from the heads to the upper rear nipple of the expansion tank instead. In fact it's just teed into the vent line coming from the radiator.

I've also installed the sight glass and petcock in the upper radiator hose. I got a good amount of air to come out of there, but now if I open it while the engine is running I just get a nice fountain of liquid. My only thought now is that there is air in the radiator. Once the engine cools down a little I'll open the cap on the rad and see if any air comes out before liquid, since the expansion tank is full of liquid and is higher than the top of the radiator hypothetically I should be able to get a constant overflow from the top of the radiator if I take both caps off to prevent creating a vacuum in the tank.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be nice. I've decided that I don't have the MAF even close to hooked up right, but I don't have the money to buy the HP tuner software to see what's going on. That'll have to wait until the spring Sad I'll have to post some pictures of the car in it's current state, I haven't done a very good job of keeping my build post up to date.

Luke
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Re: Cooling System

Post  xschop on Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:16 am

I see you fixed your first problem...main ports were swapped, now the WP is working with gravity and head pressure not against it. The drawing now looks correct, but is your fill feed from the expansion tank lower than port #3....If so the filling pressure looks like it's working against the head pressure of #1 and #2 now.........you may need to tee your fill hose from the tank to #3 and #4
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:40 am

Ok, thanks! I don't have any more room in the upper radiator hose, but I was going to get a nipple welded on the upper right side of the radiator instead of using a Tee. Would that work better?

A question though: Right now I've got the fill line Teed into the lower radiator hose, since that is the inlet of the pump it will be at a lower pressure than the upper radiator hose. Wouldn't that encourage fluid to be drawn from the tank?

Luke
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Re: Cooling System

Post  xschop on Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:56 am

No, as the system fills with water the fill feed at the lower radiator hose tee will increase back pressure on your fill line. Your fill line should always go into the uppermost part of the system so all the air has a chance to be displaced during the fill operation. Yes, to remedy, weld a fill bung on the highest point possible that matches the factory 944 fill hose I.D.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:57 am

I think the top of my radiator is still lower than the top of the heads. I'm pretty sure that the expansion tank is above the heads though, not 100% sure but I can't check right now. If it isn't I'll have to jack the expansion tank side of the car up as high as possible when I fill, like you guys have been saying right?

Yeah, that's true, when the engine is running there isn't any dp across the WP it's all head in the radiator and block.

Luke
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Re: Cooling System

Post  xschop on Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:04 am

Sorry, but I thought we were going on the assumption that there is no bleed petcock on the upper radiator hose. Regaurdless, I wouldn't put the fill line on the bottom radiator hose. Where would the displaced air go as you are filling the sysytem, even if you jacked up the front driver's side?

I have the NA radiator still plumbed with no petcock release on the upper radiator, so I did jack mine up to bleed and I got a constant flow of air bubbles back out the fill line into the expansion tank and even then I thought it would be better to tee off the top radiator hose so I wouldn't have to jack the driver's side to clear the air.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:10 am

I guess I thought that the air would bleed out of the steam lines on the head that run back to the expansion tank. Again, there might be air trapped in the radiator because I don't have a steam vent on the top of that.

So you have a similar system to mine except that you tee into the upper radiator hose and you have a vent on the top of the rad that runs to the expansion tank? I have a line that runs to the nipple on the radiator fill neck, but I realized that won't do anything until the pressure in the system exceeds the cap rating. Maybe I should just buy a super low pressure cap and put that on to bleed the system Rolling Eyes

I plan on welding in a fill nipple as well as cutting off the fill neck and adding a proper steam vent to the top of the rad.

Thanks for all the help, let me know if you see any other problems with my plan. I don't have much experience setting up my own cooling systems from scratch.

Luke
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Re: Cooling System

Post  xschop on Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:14 am

Unless you can open the Griffin cap and fill from there? or if the cap is welded shut, tap in an 1/8-27 NPT bleed petcock. As you have it now some air is being trapped in the upper radiator.

One last diagnosis...is #3 higher or lower than #4?
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:43 pm

I thought I'd dig up this thread for a few reasons:

1. The problem I was having was a rag still in the water pump inlet when everything was plumbed and filled Rolling Eyes It works great when hooked up as shown in my drawing.

2.  Here is a picture of the modified radiator after I did a little bit of welding.  This picture might already be on this forum somewhere, but I thought I would put it with this thread to have a complete story.  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Lemming on Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:30 pm

Luke714 wrote:
1. The problem I was having was a rag still in the water pump inlet when everything was plumbed and filled Rolling Eyes It works great when hooked up as shown in my drawing.
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Sorry, I just had to. Of course, I've had more than my share of DOH! moments Embarassed 
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Admin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:11 pm

Here's another solution

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Cool 

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Re: Cooling System

Post  acorad on Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:02 pm

Admin, I seem to remember you hinting about a new rad a year or so ago, is this it?

Specs? Cost? etc!

Admin wrote:Here's another solution

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Cool 
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Admin on Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:06 pm

Just came in on Wednesday so I haven't had time to do any test fitting or anything else for that matter.
But to answer your question, yes this will be it. It is a dual pass 23 1/3" x 16" x 2 1/2" thick wit two rows of core. It will also come with the to 11" fans and a form fitting shroud. We will nee to make the mounting brackets for it to include as well as the hoses and fittings. As you can see it has the tank fitting and steam vent fitting on the correct side and locations.
Have not figured a price just yet.

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Re: Cooling System

Post  87-944S on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:57 pm

That is a nice piece of work and much needed! If my Griffin doesn't cut the mustard, I will be calling you. Very Happy 
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Re: Cooling System

Post  944convert on Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Is there an advantage to cover/block/shroud the area around the fans?

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Admin on Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:53 pm

with a shroud , you are not blocking the radiator. If the shroud is designed correctly, like the one on my new radiator, it forces the air to pull through the complete radiator surface and not just in the area where the fan is mounted. If you have an unshrouded radiator you can loose all the cooling area that the fan does not cover.

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