HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Cooling System

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Porch on Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:43 am

"Is there a way to figure this out definitively?"

Absolutely! Get to work, and post up what you find Smile
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Bluemach1 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:16 pm

Gotcha.

Seems that with as many conversions that have been done that this would be resolved by now. Know what I mean?

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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:53 pm

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This is the HVAC assembly of a late 944. The lower vacuum line (number 5) would need to be connected to the H-valve as it is to the original stock heater valve. It is controlled by a solenoid switch (number 3) which has constant vacuum (number 4) from the engines intake.

What the diagram does not show is the vacuum reservoir near the battery.
The routing should be:
1. Vacuum line from the intake > to a vacuum check valve > to a rubber "T"
2. Vacuum line from one leg of "T" to vacuum reservoir near battery
3. Vacuum line from other leg of "T" to vacuum port number 4 on diagram
4. Vacuum line from number 5 on diagram to H-valve

You should have a vacuum check valve in the line from the intake to rubber "T".

How it works: When you switch your heater knob "on", the solenoid energizes and lets the vacuum supply line (number 4) pull a vacuum on line number 5. The stock heater valve in normally closed, but once it recieves vacuum through solenoid number 3, it open the valve and allows coolant to pass into the heater core.

SO if the car is rather stock, just buy a longer vacuum line and go from number 5 to the H-valve.



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Re: Cooling System

Post  Bluemach1 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:16 pm

Cool.

If this is correct, it is super simple and should be part of the manual or at least be included in the wiki.

So the H-Valve that has been recommended... Is it normally open or normally closed? Does its operation agree with the vacuum operation that the porsche provides and you have discribed here?

If this is a stupid question, please forgive me. I really dont know any details about the system.

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:36 pm

supper good stuff! So just run a line from connection #5 on the diagram? That's just one of the nipples on the engine bay side of the firewall, right?

It allows coolant to the heater core when there's no vacuum.

Is this the H-Valve? This is the only place I've found it but there is no picture so I'm a little skittish about buying.

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My Diagram

Post  Luke714 on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:47 pm

Hello,

I was hoping you guys could set me straight on a diagram I drew. I'm not totally sure how to hook the Porsche tank into the system.

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Thanks,
Luke
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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:02 am

You are a great drawer! Cool Artist?

Your upper and lower radiator bungs on that radiator are in the wrong place. The thermostat housing is considered the lower radiator hose and the other closest to the pulley is the upper radiator hose.

Number 5 vacuum port is the lower of the two on the firewall or closest to the heater core tubes.

When you physically have the h-valve in hand, it will have "IN" and "OUT" marked on the valve.

Goin' fishing, be back later to look at your picture better. Arrow

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:46 am

Have fun fishing!

Here is a better picture of the radiator:

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I thought that the upper radiator hose went to the thermostat the lower one went back to the water-pump.


Thanks,
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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:00 pm

Stoopid fish.... Not a one. Mad Laughing

I thought that the upper radiator hose went to the thermostat the lower one went back to the water-pump.

Thats only for pre 90's GM engines. GM doesnt do that anymore. LSx engines have the thermostat on the lower hose which also is the inlet....and are normally on the bottom passengers side. Im not sure if the radiator you have will be a problem or not. Thermostats on the LSx are on the water inlet side of the water pump from the lower radiator hose because water traveling from the radiators lower hose is continuously stable and cooler temperature and does not cause the thermostat's operation to oscillate as frequently.

Heres the (below) 944 LSx coolant flow diagram which shows where each hose goes. Since you have a radiator with a cap on it, you are probably not going to use the stock expansion tank. For everyone else though, if you have the turbo expansion tank (2 nipples), you have to either plug the rear-most off, “T” them together, or buy an NA expansion tank.

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Last edited by 944-LT1 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cooling System

Post  xschop on Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:13 am

The heater port arrows are backwards on the water pump pic.
Has anyone put a coolant bleeder near the steam pipe?
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Re: Cooling System

Post  cfgioja on Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:22 am

Can you not put a bleeder valve in the upper hose?
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Porch on Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:51 am

^Yes
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:16 am

Thanks for the replies, I was away from the internet for the weekend so I couldn't keep up. I don't have time to digest everything that was just said right now, but I'll be back this evening. Doesn't the fill cap have to be the highest point on the system? Isn't that not the case for me, if I use the cap on the radiator. Can I just put the front of the car on ramps when I fill the system? Why can't I plumb the stock expansion tank directly into the system and put a solid cap on the radiator? How does the thermostat get an accurate reading of the water temperature in the engine if it is on the inlet side of the block? Is there a serious risk I won't be able to get this radiator to work? Can I use straight hoses and use coils to make bends and keep things from collapsing?

I have some more thinking to do later, thanks again Very Happy
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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:53 pm

Doesn't the fill cap have to be the highest point on the system?
Theoretically....yes.
Isn't that not the case for me, if I use the cap on the radiator.

Make sure the car is off jacks, settled, and take a level to find out. Im thinking that your heads are going to be a bit higher is the system than the cap as you have it.
Can I just put the front of the car on ramps when I fill the system?
Sure. But youll have water in the steam lines and steam in the water jackets. Laughing
Why can't I plumb the stock expansion tank directly into the system and put a solid cap on the radiator?
Yes. You can do this.
How does the thermostat get an accurate reading of the water temperature in the engine if it is on the inlet side of the block?
The thermostat isnt the temperature sender. The computer knows how hot everything is. The thermostat is just a door from the radiator to the engine. It really just helps the engine get to temperature before allowing the radiator to get involved.
Is there a serious risk I won't be able to get this radiator to work?
Nah. If you plumb in the stock 944 expansion tank, you should be fine.
Can I use straight hoses and use coils to make bends and keep things from collapsing?
Eh.... well to a point yeah. If youre trying to get a 90 degree bend from a molded straight hose....probably not. Those coils are great for bends up to 45 degrees and such but much more than that and the hose will oval-out and eventually collapse.

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:45 pm

WHOA!! I was just sorta thinking out loud and rambling with that post, I was just preparing a more sane response. Thanks you answered a ton of questions though, I'm working on a better final plan.

Thanks a million, maybe you can answer my fitting question too, lol. Laughing I feel bad with all these questions, but being away from the car and only home on the weekend to take measurements makes it hard. Plus I don't have much experience.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:45 pm

Does this look better?

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I went to Autozone today and the guy could only find one of the hoses, I'll try and find alternatives but if anyone else has ideas that would be welcomed. Is the swivel thermostat housing necessary, I'll have to look but the stock one might work just as well.

Also, is a solid radiator cap (one without a pressure relief) possible to buy?

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Re: Cooling System

Post  87-944S on Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:12 pm

Hey Luke, what engine do you have? I have a 2004 GTO, and the stock T-Stat housing worked just fine, I found molded hoses that work great.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:37 pm

WHOA!! I was just sorta thinking out loud and rambling with that post, I was just preparing a more sane response.

Laughing Oh well. Its all good.

On your new picture, you cannot attach the steam vent to the rad neck. That is overflow for the radiator. When the coolant gets hot, it expands and expels coolant through that nipple to a catch can or overflow bottle.

You can either: 1.) have a nipple welded into the top of the radiator for the steam vent, 2.) drill and tap a hole into the top of the water pump, 3.) find a way to attach the steam vent to the stock 944 expansion tank...this would be cool to see...hint: I have a vague memory that theres something underneath the expansion tank that is recessed and looks like it serves some purpose. Question

Note: If you go with welding in a nipple to the top of the radiator, go ahead and have them weld in a port on the drivers side of the radiator for the stock 944 expansion tank to attach to which will rid the need of a "T". If you want to, you can also have them move the inlet and outlet of the radiator to their opposite locations. You dont have to, but would help with hose routing.

Also, is a solid radiator cap (one without a pressure relief) possible to buy?
Im not sure. But try and find a cap that has a higher relief rating than the expansion tanks cap. If not, have someone cut off and weld the filler on you rad.

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:54 am

Excellent, good to know. I think that's enough food for thought for a little while.

So the nipple by the fill neck should go to a hose that dips into some sort of catch bottle? If I recall the Porsche tank also has a tube that comes off the fill neck, but it just goes down to the ground and not to any sort of bottle. Which one should I use (Expansion tank or radiator) and should I plug one of the two up? The only reason for needing to leave the nipple by the fill available for the overflow is that it's the highest point and therefore will be the last to see a fluid level rise, right? If that is the case I should plug the one on the radiator and use the one on the expansion tank, so wouldn't it be ok to use the nipple by the radiator fill cap for the steam if it is lower than the one on the tank?

Hey Luke, what engine do you have? I have a 2004 GTO, and the stock T-Stat housing worked just fine, I found molded hoses that work great.

Thanks for the tip on the thermostat housing, I'll see if the stock one works ok. What radiator did you use?


Thanks a million, I'm getting there!

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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:28 am

Well the nipple on the radiator neck only sees coolant when the cap pressure is exceeded. Once the cap opens, fluid can then flow up and out the nipple--through a hose to the ground.

You dont need a catch can, just that many cars have them. The 944 stock tank just pissed it onto the ground. Laughing Really you want to have that radiator neck cut off and a piece of aluminum welded in. Should cost too much to have that done.

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:03 am

Ok, I'm having the radiator neck cut off and welded over. Shown below is my final routing plan, what do you guys think? The only change from last time is where the steam tube from the heads run to. Instead of the nipple by the fill cap on the radiator I thought I could run it to the second connection on the turbo fill tank. Will that work? I've found molded hoses that run from 1-2 and 3-4. I'll list all those once things are a little less crazy for me. Shocked

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Re: Cooling System

Post  944-LT1 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:59 am

Use this.... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Cooling System

Post  Luke714 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:18 am

where? in the upper hose from 3-4

Does it look ok to put the steam tube into the expansion tank the way I have it shown?
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Re: Cooling System

Post  Bridar on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:50 am

I ran my steam tube into the expansion tank just like in your revised drawing and it seems to work fine.
As a side note (and I hope that it is not related to the steam line routing) I had a terrible time trying to bleed the air and completely fill the coolant. Every time I thought it was full the engine would still run hot, eventually having the computer shut it down due to overtemperature. What I had to do was to add a radiator flush port (common flush kit available at any autoparts store). I located it on the highest heater line. I used Porch's instructions for the heater line and H-Valve locations (Thanks, Porch). The flush port allowed me to fill the coolant in gradually while I squeezed the upper radiator hose to push out the air.
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Re: Cooling System

Post  cfgioja on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:13 am

if you have a steam vent, or flush point at the top of the upper radiator hose, would it not bleed the air once the engine reaches temp and the thermo opens?

Before then all the coolant is doing is circling the engine and not even going to the radiator.
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Re: Cooling System

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