HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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LS Engine Uprights 101

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LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:23 pm

Time to go to school, boys...

The SBC / LT1 engine uprights sold through 944hybrids and 944v8s, and of which dimensions are posted from here to New Zealand and back (including in the Manual), have been proven to fit the LS1 with 1/2" crossmember spacers, short style urethane motor mounts, and 1/4" steel set-back plates.
And the hood closes.

The one ugly word in all of the above has become "spacers"...
Don't want 'em, but gotta have 'em.

Until now.

The uprights can be shortened easily if done correctly. The angle @ the crossmember mounting location has been duplicated in the jig I built, the SBC / LT1 uprights have been bolted in, and now shortening the height properly is as simple as moving the motor mount bolt straight down at the proper angle in respect to the crossmember mounting angle. In other words, the angles of the uprights change, and the result is an upright 3/8 - 1/2" shorter at the motor mount, but on the same vertical plane.

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What does this mean?
1/4" or less spacers.
I guarantee it.
100%.

LS2 and LS3 engines may even lose the spacers completely...
LS1 engines may still require trimming the hood rib,
and the passenger side of the Moroso 20140 Oil Pan may need to be notched, but -

What's more important?
Proper suspension geometry, or that danged hood rib (that more than likely no one will ever look at anyway)? That answer is "'fool-proof".

One final note:
If you have a set of previously made uprights, and would care to drastically reduce the amount of crossmember spacer required by them, PM or email me, and I will shorten your existing uprights for a ridiculously small charge (materials and shipping 2 ways).

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  cfgioja on Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:31 am

Does this affect the Power steering clearance or the oil pan clearance at all?

I am running the custom pan from RH.
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  944-LT1 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:28 am

....tell em bout the tranny mount too! Laughing

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:01 am

OK.
But then I have to change the name of the thread to
"LS Engine Uprights and Trans Mount 101"...

No matter how short (or tall) the uprights are, if the transaxle mount is shot, the engine will not sit where it should, height-wise nor front-to-back. endrnet, 944-LT1, xschop have all seen this happen, and even the Manual advises to at least start with a good condition mount.

A new mount is the best bet, so spend that money now...or pay for it with a lot of frustration, confusion, mis-placed blame, and still have to replace the mount.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  xschop on Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:17 am

I am working on the Billet Poly mounts to solve the "SAG" that needs to be addressed before the uprights are installed. I was able to move my engine back and forth about 1.5" which is not good when positioning the engine for the swap especially when the drivetrain is on an incline (or at least mine was when I did the swap). If your mount is already sagging/worn , after a few weeks at this incline, you can bet you fragged it.
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  944-LT1 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:52 am

OK.
But then I have to change the name of the thread to
"LS Engine Uprights and Trans Mount 101"...
They kinda go hand-in-hand though.
A new mount is the best bet, so spend that money now...or pay for it with a lot of frustration, confusion, mis-placed blame, and still have to replace the mount.
Laughing For the others that dont know or for those about to install their engine:
I pulled my hair out, kicked the cat, threw a perfectly good maglight to the concrete all because I assumed that, since my car only had 80K miles, the tranny mount was fine. With the front of the car up about 10 inches, the entire drivetrain slouched back until the end of the transmission was resting on the spare wheel well! Thats about 1-2" of movement. This caused the engine to be way back in the bay, up against the firewall, and also caused the mounts not to work. Finally, after realizing my error, I got the tranny where it was supposed to be and found that the mounts were fine. Regardless, for my LS3, the fuel rail covers are a bit tall when installed and still hit the hood. So my engine needs to come down still..... I wanna use my FRC's! Rolling Eyes

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  Arthropraxis on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:09 pm

These cars are 20+ years old. The rubber parts are all degraded. I just checked mine over the weekend and I could swing it side to side a couple of inches. It sits fairly level on jackstands, I didn't think to check front to back.
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:10 pm

I'll have the drawing updated tonight.

MK, will (-)3/8" get the FR covers under the hood?
I'm mowin' down some uprights myself, and welding on new bottom plates.
It will be up to the individual to test-fit and specify spacer needs, if any.

Oil pan?
It would be easier (and FREE) to grind some on the crossmember first...

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  944-LT1 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:01 pm

3/8" probably not. As it is right now, cylinder 1's intake "runner" is touching the hood and keeping it up a bit over an inch.

This is with a gtracing fiberglass hood with no center support, Prothane Motion Control 7-504 motor mounts, carshopinc plates, RH uprights (as used with my LT) and 1/2" aluminum spacers. So pretty much what everyone else is using which leads me to believe the LS2/LS3/LS7 FRCs and intake are higher? Unless my prothane mounts are the wrong ones. Neutral

With the passengers side of the oil pan notched and the passengers side crossmember steering boss shaved a bit, Im hoping to gain atleast 0.5-1" more hood clearance. We'll see. If it doesnt....hood buldge. Crying or Very sad

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  Luke714 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:59 pm

how badly do the spacers affect the suspension geometry? I'm making all of my own parts, so I can do anything that I want when I fabricate.
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  Bluemach1 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:52 am

Wont the tubular xmember from TPC address all of these issues? It will certainly be more expensive but if you can use a stock pan and keep the correct geometry, maybe in the long run it is not too bad.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  944-LT1 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:06 am

Wont the tubular xmember from TPC address all of these issues?

I dont think he's gotten around to testing it with the LS. I believe it was made for LT's but I cant fathom why it wouldnt work with the LS1....big question is will it work with the LS2/3/7.

If he wants, Ill test it for him for use with the LS3! Very Happy

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:34 pm

It's not going to take as much as you think MK, considering the curve and angle of the hood.
1/4" clearance at the intake #1 runner could easily translate to 1" at the latch.

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In other words, 3/8" lower should do it...
1/2" lower will shave the spacers to 1/4" or less, which is acceptable.
Anything over 8mm spacers may cause geometry issues.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:43 pm

944-LT1 wrote:RH uprights (as used with my LT)
Those are even taller than what the 944v8s / 944hybrids versions are.
By ~3/4", maybe more.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  944-LT1 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:16 pm

Youre right. Id have to throw the hood on to see what the ratio is. At this point, im thinking lower it as physically possible... safely. I will not space more than the 1/2" thats there now.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:24 pm

gt1scca wrote:3/8" lower should do it...
I should have specified, 3/8" lower with the 944v8s uprights.
RH versions will take a lot more than that.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  Luke714 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:51 pm

I've got a question. I've obviously not done a conversion before, I'm sure the regulars recognize me and that fact by now. Because this is the first time I was planning on following the drawings and specs in the manual to the T, will I get in trouble using the 1/2 spacers and the uprights that are already drawn? I'm putting in an LS1, which doesn't appear to be the motor you guys are discussing in particular (more about the LS2/3). I'm putting in Caster/Camber plates up front, will those mitigate any problems with suspension geometry?
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:20 pm

Longer ball joint pins, or aftermarket control arms, will allow tracking a car with 1/2" spacers incident-free as far as the ball joints are concerned. If the failure-prone 944 ball joint angle is not addressed even on a lowered car without spacers, track use will eventually destroy the joint (and arm in a worst-case). My concerns may be overly cautious, but it's better to be safe than sued.

Here's the blunt of it...[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Decide for yourself. Early cars seem to be the highest risk.

Street cars have used 1/2" spacers safely as far as I know, but the condition of a 20+ year old ball joint prone to "early" failure should not be overlooked.

For a street-driven conversion, or otherwise lowered 944, replace the ball joints if in doubt.
Track applications should only use .31" of spacer or less.
Bind a ball joint on the track, destroy the arm, total your car, or worse.

Rennbay sells the longer ball joints...
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And the most reasonable tubular control arms...
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I have dedicated intervals for updates to the Manual, but as you can see, I am also trying to keep the posts here as up to date as possible in (live) support of it.

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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  Luke714 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:47 am

Good to know. We're actually dealing with binding issues on the ball joints for our FSAE car, so I can appreciate the problem. So:

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Should drastically reduce any risk? I don't really have the money for new control arms right now.
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Re: LS Engine Uprights 101

Post  gt1scca on Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:05 pm

Longer pins will correct geometry within a reasonable budget.
Note that the spindles need to be machined, through Rennbay or locally.

Travis is easy to deal with, and he can give more details on their machining.

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