HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Highest safe buying millage for LS1

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Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  Luke714 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:37 am

Hello,

I'm at the point that I'm starting to do the serious shopping for an LS1 motor. I don't really feel comfortable doing a full rebuild myself but don't really have the money for a crate motor. What is the highest millage people would suggest that I can buy without too much concern. I've found several that have 40-50k that are right in my price range. I realize that knowing how the motor was treated during those miles is the really important question.

Question

Thanks,
Luke
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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  Vorsche944 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:49 am

you are about right. I start with the 50 k mark and then go lower. What about all the accessories, AC, Alternator, PS pump, wire harness, you really want the stock F-Body config. I would like to know how the car was treated, but not every car is a grandma church goer, I assume they are driven hard at times, a sports car is supposed to be.

Here is a link to a good site to search for motors. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  944-LT1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:41 am

This is a bit long cause I included every thought I had on it at the moment. Laughing

I just went through all this last summer. The price depends on what the engine comes with. When you say LS1, are generalizing all LS based engines or do you just mean 1997-2004 LS1's?
A full/complete LS1 with all accessories and harness/ecu at 40-50K is gonna be a bit hard to find that hasnt seen a pole or another car. LS1's are at least ~6 years old already and could be at around 50-60K miles for a 2004 model (figuring ~8-10K miles driven per year). But, in reality [w/o transmission] @40-50K should cost about 1.5-2.0k. An LS6 would be a bit more as they were used until 2005 and have a bit more powah so you should see them, if @40-50K, at about 3K or 3.7K max if in decent to nice condition.

If I had to only choose GenIII LS engines, I wouldnt pay more than 2.5K and if I couldnt rebuild it or atleast freshen it up with new bearings, I wouldnt go over 60K miles. This is after I studied the spark plugs for clues such as NOS useage, oil consumption/problems, hard driving, etc. And the oil within the engine can tell alot as well. Factual compression test's cold and warm must be done!!! Anyone selling a used engine should have absolutely no problem supplying these numbers! These numbers hot and cold can/may tell you the state of the bearings, piston rings/cylinder walls, and head condition. If you already knew all this, disregard...but it may help another.

If the engine you have found comes with all accessories (F-body only), harness, computer, is complete from pan to intake, is at 40-50K miles and is within a 1.5-2.5K dollar mark, I think you'd have a decent deal on your hands.... assuming the internals are fine i.e. compression and such. 2.5K is for a real nice maintenanced example.

But I digress, to your exact question.... LS1's are very durable, well engineered engines. Whereas they dont share the LT and Gen1's longevity (well into the 200K mile range probably due to that whole strength-to-mass difference between iron and aluminum), GM claimed (cant find the damn tech sheet) that at/after 100 thousand miles the crankshaft main and rod bearings should be checked and/or serviced. So id think that at or anything after that, they should require a rebuild or atleast a freshening.
So, for your consideration, max mileage Im willing to deal with per year and assuming complete engine meaning all accessories, harness, computer, w/o transmission:
1998 LS1 = 80K miles ~ 1.3-1.4K
1999 LS1 = 75K miles ~ 1.4-1.5K
2000 LS1 = 70K miles ~ 1.5-1.6K
2001 LS1** = 65K miles ~ 1.6-1.7K
2002 LS1** = 60K miles ~ 1.7-1.8K
2003 LS1** = 55K miles ~ 1.8-1.9K
2004 LS1** = 50K miles ~ 1.9-2.0K

**LS6 = add ~1.6-1.8K to each.

Of course these prices dont include modifications such as cams, intakes, heads, etc...just stock form and they are all a bit low on mileage than what they are probably averaging per year.
Hope this helps a bit.
What was your price range?

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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  Luke714 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:40 pm

wow, awesome info. I'm planning something around 2k, I could 2.5k if push came to shove. I could replace the bearings and seals myself no problem. I would definitely ask for compression numbers. What do the hot and cold readings reveal in particular? What other basic things should I do to the engine before installation? What are the signs of NOS useage? Razz If I can get a motor with good compression numbers and I can redo the bearings and seals then it sounds like 60k might not be too bad.
Anything in the range of 97-04 would be fine with me, I do want the ECU and harness to come with the engine though. As far as accessories go I don't want AC and I haven't done research as to what alternator to use or what power steering pump to use. Since I haven't put any effort into finding out for myself I won't waste time asking for answers on the forum yet.
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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  944-LT1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:23 pm

Alot of people think cold compression is worthless.....its very useful (or so GM says)! During cold compression tests, the valve seals, head gaskets and other materials and metals are cold and as such contracted. If worn, you may be able to detect clearances out of tolerance. Main and rod bearings when cold (as well as oil) will show one certain pressure number but different when hot. You should compare all these data with GM published numbers. If able to run, any odd or excessive noises can be detected when an engine is cold as well such as piston slap, rocker to pushrod wear, etc.

When the engine is warm, alot of these things may disappear. If a compression test when warm is lower than when cold, this may indicate a weak starter condition among other things...it would take lots of pages to discuss all the things here.

Theres also (the standard) "wet" and "dry" compression test where the dry is just as normal with the engine warm and the wet is with a bit of oil squirted into the spark plug hole. 25% difference between wet and dry may show a problem.

NOS'd spark plugs, where the wrong heat plug is used or too much nos was used, will show heat coloration (blue) in the bridge of the ground strap for example which means the nos jet should have been smaller. Also, the easy way to tell if nos was used, pull the plugs and if they look near new with a light grey threaded body, its possible nos was used. Nos has a "cleaning" effect on spark plugs. If no nos was used, it will show the normal characteristic tanish color on the ceramic.....pics can be googled.

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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  Luke714 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:42 pm

great thanks for the info. The contraction and expansion makes sense. I've used the wet and dry compression tests before so I'll definitely check that out. I think I'll do the bearings and seals no matter what, especially since I'll be changing the oil pan.
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Re: Highest safe buying millage for LS1

Post  944-LT1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:17 pm

Thats a good plan. Ounce of prevention..... Very Happy

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