HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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LSX with Dry Sump ?

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LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:40 am

Hi all,

has anyone ran an LSX with a dry sump system, and if so, does it help one avoid the cross member drop mentioned on other threads ? Also does it allow you to drop the engine down some extra at all or ?

Cheers,
KW

Since I'm a newbie, I'd better do a quick intro, I've a mostly stock 87/88 944 T, fitted with KV3 suspension, Weltmeister roll/sway bars, boost enhancer and a few minor bits of plumbing changed. My only potential major problem for a V8 conversion is that it's a RHD car, that and trying to find a garage big enough on this side of the pond...!

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:08 am

Welcome!

Unfortunately, either a pan modification or a custom pan would still be required and either x-member spacers or hood buldge would need to be installed. Even though the dry sump pans are quite shallow, they still wouldnt clear the x-member. As it is, the off-the-shelf pans, that the LS conversions are using, such as milodon and moroso are already very, if not more, shallow than the dry sump pans however still require modification.

Another point to think about is that to convert an LS to drysump (just to dodge a couple 1/2" spacers) is not even close to being justifiable. Youre talking about hundreds if not thousands to do it; especially in a 944 bay. To illustrate, the current going rate just for the conversion pan alone is 700-800 bucks (a special pan that fits the LS1/LS6/LS2 series). Thats not including the front timing cover, scavenge pump, hoses, external tank, etc.... list is long.

But no need to worry. The spacers are easily made or purchased right here and thus far have shown no ill effects....well........what are your plans for the car?

Good question though!
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PIC

Post  xschop on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:58 am

Take a picture underneath and show us your steering rack and cross member. The X-member I see on Ebay for the English folk are different from ours and the tabs look like they are angled down.....Let's take a look....
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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:27 am

Hmmm, a hood bulge is not my style at all, so I guess it'll have to be the lowered x-member, is that what the spacers are used for, i.e to lower the cross member ?

Has anyone come up with a custom x-member ? Which may solve the pan clearance problem another way, as the cross member (and sump) is already quite low on my car, and the roads over here often aren't that great, if I could I'd like to avoid lowering things further it at all possible.

That said, I assume the lowest part on most conversions is the bottom of the new sump pan, and not the cross member, even when it is lowered by 1/2 an inch as you mention ?

How much does lowering the steering rack, I assume it's also lowered when you lower the x-member, affect the bump steer ? Do people use some sort of extended tie rod ball joint, sans elephant racing or similar, to make up for this ?

As for the cost of a dry sump, well that's something I don't mind swallowing if I do this conversion. Prior to this, I had a SBC powered mid engine kit car, and one 'track day' as they call them over here, I was on a very tight and twisty circuit, much more suited to lotus seven replicas and the like, with another chap, also with the same kit car as myself. However, mine had a dry sump and his an accusump, and so eventually, after much twisting and turning, the long sustained left hander in the course (nearly 10 or so seconds) ran his accusump dry, and so did one of his big end bearings dry out shortly after that, with the usual inevitable results of a dry bearing trying to turn at 6000rpm. So at the end of the day, one of us got to drive his car home and the other trailered his. No prizes for guessing who was who...

The car is just a fun weekend driver, with some occasional 'track' use. I always prefer to have the maximum system reliability possible, since often the tracks I visit are a long way from home, and can even be in another country, and a serious breakdown like a spun bearing would be a complete PITA...

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:30 am

'...tabs look like they are angled down.....Let's take a look....'
Do you mean the tabs that hold the steering rack on or... ?

I'll get it up on a hoist either this weekend or next (have to do the infamous power steering hose replacement) and snap some pics...

Cheers
KW

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  xschop on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:55 am

Yes take a picc where the steering rack mounts to the X-member. Ours require the oil pan modification on the driver's side because the mounting tabs for the rack stick up.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has the oil pans modified already and I dropped my X-member 32mm (1.25") and that Moroso pan bottom only dropped about 3/8" of what the stock 944 oil pan fins were resting at. Oklahoma has crappy roads too and I don't expect trouble.

EDIT...Bloody Welcome....
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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  968ls1 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:21 am

I did a dry sump 951 track car for my brother 4 years ago; no frame spacers or bulge in the hood. Started with an ARE dry sump system and heavily modified the pan to fit the 944. Because the dry sump does not have a pick up tube running down the passenger side of the pan you can set the engine lower than a wet sump pan. The car had a manual rack which also allows lower engine height The dry sump with all the lines/fittings and 2 oil coolers was around 5k. I might have some pics of the build on my old computer if you are interested.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:38 am

Always interested. Dont have 5K but nevertheless....interested in pics!! No spacers or hood buldge eh? Crafty.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  cfgioja on Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:37 pm

so how exactly does that dry sump system work with out a pick up tube? is it made to keep the oil level at the height of the pump itself or does the pump sit below the oil level line?

I have heard people talk about it before but never asked.
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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  968ls1 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:21 pm

There are different configurations but the one I did used actually used 2 pumps; an external pump that sucked oil out of the pan then to the oil tank. From the tank it ran to a fitting in the pan that was directly connected to the LS1 oil pump. Pump is fed from tank so it has a constant oil supply. Go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to see the system and flow path.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:06 am

Was there an advantage to using that setup, instead of removing/bypassing the internal pump ? I assume you had a twin scavenge stake pump ?


The SBC that my kit car had, after I upgraded it the following arrangement.

Firstly the internal pump removed/blanked off, and the pump was a 3 stage, 2 scavenge lines feeding the external 2 & 1/2 US gallon tank, and 1 pressure line drawing off from the tank sending oil to a filter like this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Then out of the filter and off to this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - which allowed me to vary the amount of going through the cooler circuit depending on the ambient temperature.

Cooler circuit oil went to this, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which then was rejoined with the oil that had bypassed it via a Y junction, then it all finally flowed back into the engine, cooled and filtered.

I did get a couple of in-line mesh filters to attach to the scavenge lines coming off the dry sump pan itself, but never got to install them before I sold the car. While it sounded like a somewhat complicated oil path, I never had any problems pressure wise or other, but there was a fair number of -12AN hoses and fittings to make, install and remember to tighten!

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  968ls1 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:54 pm

We looked at the system that removed the factory pump but Gary at ARE recommended the setup we used based on his success with World Challenge Corvettes and Camaros using the two pump system. It was also a little less $$. The car we put it in was 2500lbs and had 335/315 Hoosiers so it generated A LOT of grip and we never had any oiling issues. We did put a pressure sensor on the scaving pump line that would indicate pressure loss if the belt came off or broke; it would then automatically shut the engine off.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:32 am

Sounds like a sensible setup, good idea about the pressure gauge. Was your brothers 951 also a V8 conversion or was it done on the Porsche motor ? (I see they have pans for that as well)

Luckily I have the parts for the manual rack conversion at the ready in case I have fitting issues with the power rack.

What did you have to do to get those size tyres fitted ?!

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  968ls1 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:34 am

It was a 383 LS1 conversion. The car had Gt Racing wide body fenders and quarter panels to fit the tires.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  gt1scca on Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:33 am

Here's the car...
Very nice.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  968ls1 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:35 am

Greg-Thanks for posting; I forgot my brother posted that website when he was selling the car. That was a huge project I hated to see the car get sold but times are hard.

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  944-LT1 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:26 am

968LS1, I didnt want to thread jack but maybe you'd be so good as to post a new thread for you (that) conversion in the "944hybrids Member Conversions" forum of this board? I would love to ask you things about that car as Im sure others would! BTW, love the upper coolant pipe!

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

Post  Korenwolf on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:56 pm

That looks pretty well sorted, definately a real shame having to sell it. You really excelled in the engine bay, it looks like the engine was born in the car, no point trying a conversion in my mind if you can't get it to look like you did, this is definately what I'd like to aim for under the hood...

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Hmmm... the only problem for me would be where to put the drysump oil tank, since I don't think the wife would be keen on a foot warmer like that... is there much space left elsewhere in the engine bay for a narrower tank ?

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Re: LSX with Dry Sump ?

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