HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Clutch Master Upgrade

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:37 am

Right, I was thinking of the clutch power spring. Double-checked and no assist spring either. I wonder if it would make a noticeable difference...

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  968ls1 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:53 am

The spring will make a difference. I have a new generation SPEC 2+ clutch with a Tilton 7/8 master and it works great. It does not feel like a Honda clutch but it's not too stiff. You can adjust the amount of assist the spring will give you. Non-factory GM Pressure plates typically have more clamping force and as a result require more leg to open them.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm

Yeah, that assist spring will definitely help you. With the stock m/c i had to loosen the assist up a little bit because my pedal was getting stuck on the floor, and even a few turns on the assist spring made the stock pedal a little heavy.

I haven't gotten around to bleeding my setup yet, and i can't find my @#$^@! camera anywhere! So hopefully it will turn up sooner rather than later and i can get some pictures up along with some feedback. Unfortunately the homework load was a little heavier than i anticipated this weekend, and we got 2' of snow in the mountains here, so they were calling Smile Priorities...
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  944-LT1 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:38 pm

I never took my clutch spring out. Never really understood why others have. Its a pain while bleeding but after its bled, the clutch always felt great. While bleeding, I just tie a rope to the pedal and pull on it to bring it back up until it does it on its own. Easy.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:57 pm

Looks like I was getting the springs mixed up. The clutch power spring is the one that adjusts pedal effort. For some reason I thought it did the opposite. Maybe cause of the way it is facing in PET.

Now if I can just find one for cheaper than $95...

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:43 pm

I'll make you a deal on one...
I have 2 complete assemblies: spring, rod, etc.

PM sent.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:02 pm

Ahhh HA!
I found my camera. It's always the last place you look.
Unfortunately by the time i found it (while i was looking for something else), i had already started buttoning up the project. But i did snap two pictures and here they are...

Here you can see the installed m/c and my GM reservoir. The hose routing for the hard line i would have preferred was blocked by my brake proportioning valve so it looks a little funky, but it works. Pedal effort is....eh. More than i would like, but not horrible. I tightened the assist spring back up to be a little tighter than it was when stock. I do feel like the 7/8 is overkill--i really think someone ought to try the 13/16 before we call this project a done deal. And absolutely keep the assist spring for this project!!!
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Here you can see my home-made washers. Nothin' fancy. There is a lot of room for reinforcement here, but it's still on top of thin sheet metal! We'll see how it holds up. I definitely feel that something is better than nothing.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  ghostcloak on Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:34 am

Just ordered Wilwood's 260-10373 13/16" M/C and a firewall plate. I'll let you guys know how this goes. Maybe about 2-3 weeks before the parts get in and I finish getting everything put in.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Wild Bill on Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:18 am

If a 3/4" bore is adequate, a 20 year old hydraulic cylinder (that has been "non-functional" for X years) may not be up to moving the same as-new volume.

OK, I guess I don't understand how bore and stroke is going to change over time and change volume? I can understand a leak... However.

I installed a RAM-78125 Hydraulic throwout bearing and set it up with the recommended .200" -.240" bearing to finger clearance. With the stock Porsche clutch master cylinder pushing the pedal in with the assist spring is like pushing a Honda pedal..

With .240" clearance I can turn the driveshaft and feel a slight dragging. Adjusting the actuator rod reduces my bearing/finger clearance and gives me full disengagement telling me that the stock Porsche master cylinder has stroke that isn't being used. Has anybody tried relocating the clutch pedal/MC actuator rod attach point down a fraction of an inch? I understand full retraction of master is necessary to open fluid resivoir port and finger/bearing clearance is necessary for release bearing life.

I removed my pedal assist spring just to better feel what was happening with adjustment however even without the spring pedal effort is minimal on my set-up. Cool
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:05 am

Putting in a new master cylinder is WAY easier than changing the linkage like you're talking about!
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Wild Bill on Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:42 pm

I see what you mean! Took me 5 whole minutes to pull the pedal. The battery was disconnected so I saved some time there. Grind off weld to pull pin took 4 minutes. Just want to measure and do the math to figure out how much to drop the pin, I figure 1/4" to 3/8" should do the trick. Welding back up should take about 15 seconds and reassembly about another 10 minutes including adjustment. Not trying to stop anybody from buying new master cylinders, clevises and fluid reservoir's.. Just offering another option,,,,

Once the fuse box is lifted if you have a 90 degree air drill, pilot drill the MC attach bolt heads in the center from the back and then drill to size and the bolts will fall out. No grinding required and the flush head of the bolt remains offering a stronger surface and nicer finish. I just built a flange instead of 2 washers. Once again... Just another alternative.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:08 pm

Wild Bill wrote:Not trying to stop anybody from buying new master cylinders, clevises and fluid reservoir's.. Just offering another option...
No prob, Bill.
Nice info.

I'm not trying to push the MC / Clevis, either. It is merely available as an upgrade, mainly for the C5 slave...Any improvement is definitely welcome - this ain't no Renegade Forum, Bill! Razz

If the stock cylinder will do the job, I agree - why mess with it? On the SBC / LT1 setup with the RAM 78125, removing the assist spring and proper shimming of the bearing have been adequate. It seems to be more of a volume issue with the C5 slave, and the RAM 78125 hasn't experienced lack of volume issues.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  subterfuge on Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:34 pm

Bill, when you get a chance, could you post a pic of what you did?
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  ghostcloak on Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 am

#*&$!!!!! You guys tell me this AFTER I purchase the m/c????


lol...
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:52 am

That 25 year old POS needed to be replaced anyway, Stephen!
It's like Kindergarten here...

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Somebody learns something new every day.
(Well, except maybe this guy.. ^)

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Wild Bill on Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:31 pm

OK I dropped the pin 0.270", a rough guess of pedal swing I figured about 0.150" more travel for just under 1 cc more volume. I don't know it it's worth the effort however I felt I wanted more finger/release bearing clearance with full release.

The pushrod angle even with the stock pin location comes very close to the master cylinder bore, I would check the Wilwood cylinders for clearance as well. For mine I chucked the rod in the drill press and sanded the flats off with a die grinder/sanding disk to end up with a round rod and adequate clearance with the dropped pin height.

Full release and clearance, I'm happy!

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  turbobob924 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:48 am

What a PIA!

How the hell to you get in either under the dash or at the firewall to drill new holes for a Wilwood MC?

Maybe just drill new top one and use washers on the sides or the stock bolts?

The Willwood MC has mounting holes top and bottom. The stock Clutch MS has them left and right.

Man this is harder than doing the engine swap.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  turbobob924 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:15 pm

OK, calming down....


Can the Wilwood MC be mounted sideways if it is a remote fill model and if so are the holes the same as the stock FAQ MC?
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  turbobob924 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:27 pm

looks like the Wilwood mounting dims are a fraction smaller than the stock MC anyway.


As it related to the pedal spring, I could have sworn that it only helps with the return and therefore adding some in pedal effort? That's why I originally removed mine a long time ago but now, I don't seem to know anything anymore!
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  xschop on Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:54 am

Revisiting my old thread because I discovered something very interesting while milling the Center to Center holes (7/16" mill) on a spare 13/16" Wilwood that I had. The Body casting on the 13/16" Wilwood compact is a smaller O.D. than the 7/8" (I have on my car). What this means is that the 7/16" mount holes when milled to 50mm Center to Center (944 firewall MC stud spreadwidth) allows plenty of room near the O.D. of it's body where the M8 x 1.25 nuts will clear as they rotate/screwed down the threading. I had to grind the 6-points down on each nut and took forever getting a wrench down there at a snail's pace. A deep socket on swivel will work on these 13/16" Wilwood MC's (part# 260-10373)

Comparo...Larger O.D. body of 7/8" Wilwood in 1st pic.....
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Milled using a V-block..... Don't forget to tape all the ports.....
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Narrower body of 13/16" Wilwood Compact.....
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Dawgz83948 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:18 am

turbobob924 wrote:looks like the Wilwood mounting dims are a fraction smaller than the stock MC anyway.


As it related to the pedal spring, I could have sworn that it only helps with the return and therefore adding some in pedal effort? That's why I originally removed mine a long time ago but now, I don't seem to know anything anymore!

The pedal spring is a preload on the clutch pedal lightening up the effort required. That's why when your master or slave goes bad it sticks to the floor.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:30 am

Does the new master cylinder need a paper gasket between it and the firewall?
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  xschop on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:15 am

I ran a bead of RTV around the MC base.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:17 pm

Thanks, I am going to try and get it in today.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  cfgioja on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:31 am

I just wanted to confirm that I need to upgrade the mc once I install the stage two clutch and aluminum spec pressure plate.

If that is the case I am thinking I can just run the stage 1 disk and stock pressure plate on the aluminum flywheel until I get the dough for the wilwood master.

Does that sound reasonable?
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