HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Clutch Master Upgrade

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944 MC upgrade

Post  xschop on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:26 pm

The stock 944 MC is the same Dia. as the stock F-body/Vette MC and it is o.k. for a stock pressure plate/clutch and alot of the Camaro/Vette guys have trouble with quick shifts even with stock clutches. They say it gets worse when upgrading the clutch components, that's why Tick came up with a "kit" for the MC. I talked to McCleod and he told me Tick gets their quick disconnects directly from them and that a 7/8" Tilton MC is used.
I just got my (23") quick disconnect -4AN fitting from them and can confirm it is a perfect length from the C5 TO factory female disconnect to the MC (944 or Wilwood)

I machined the C5 adapter plates to set the bottom of the C5 TO bearing exactly level with the BH. This is the exact distance the C5 torque tube sets it at also. If you have an upgraded clutch and are unsure of what the pressure plate spline to C5 TO bearing distance is, just follow the exact procedure that Arthropraxis found on LS1tech (good find BTW)

I didn't care for re-pulling the engine again to install SS Braid lines to the C5 TO, so I found these to bolt onto the Wilwood....
Quik Disconnect (MCL-139212)
ADAPTER -4AN MALE X 1/8 NPT MALE 90° BLUE (RUS-660800)
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:50 pm

Wow, after reading some other threads on other forums, this really explains the issues I was having with high rpm shifting and getting it into first. I was afraid it might be the synchros even though the transaxle was recently rebuilt. Looks like I have another winter project after my PS pump.

I'd like to order a pushrod clevis as soon as it's available.

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Just a click away...

Post  gt1scca on Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:10 pm

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gt1scca

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:05 pm

Ask and ye shall receive. Smile Ordered one.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:32 pm

Thanks Modian!
(Manual too, I see...)

Cool

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:51 pm

Yeah, I wanted to compare what was done to my car to your solutions. Plus I figured it'd make nice bedtime reading. Wink

So I see the Wilwood connection for the line is 1/8" NPT, and someone mentioned getting an adapter for running -4 AN line. A couple of questions:

1) Does anyone know what size the connection is on the Porsche MC? Since the adapter is recommended, I assume it is a different size?

2) How are you guys running the line? Currently, I have a hard line going up and over the intermediate shaft that then connects to a braided line. Are you guys going underneath or along the firewall? I don't have hard line tools so I wanted to see if I could reuse my current connections. (Or find a clean way to run a braided line the whole way.)

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:47 pm

Modian wrote:
1) Does anyone know what size the connection is on the Porsche MC?
12MM X 1.0 to -3an (or -4an)

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Searching for a 12mm banjo fitting takes more patience...alot more.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:40 am

Any idea what size line the RH kit comes with? Will i need a -3 or a -4AN adapter?
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  968ls1 on Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:05 pm

-4 with a 90 on one end and one straight. They weld a -4 female on the slave and use a earls adapter on the master.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:45 pm

^Thanks!

Also, i noticed there is a 13/16 master cylinder available in the same specs...any thoughts on that versus the 7/8? 968ls1, you haven't had any troubles with the 7/8?

I'm only slightly worried about over-extending the slave cylinder, but it really seems like my 3/4 (stock) m/c really only needs that last little bit.....

Just curious Smile
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:08 pm

Porch wrote:I'm only slightly worried about over-extending the slave cylinder...
Chris,

I disassembled 2 C5 slaves Sunday for milling (to clear the C5 BH adapter studs), and overtravel shouldn't be a problem. There is a tab machined into the slave housing that retains the piston, therefor it can only travel to the stop position.

Lookie...

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gt1scca

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:15 pm

Porch wrote:Any idea what size line the RH kit comes with? Will i need a -3 or a -4AN adapter?
The Wilwood MC has a 1/8" NPT thread, and Summit has adapters for -3AN / -4AN hose...

Earl's Performance 982204ERL
Earl's Performance 982203ERL

gt1scca

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:30 am

Okay, i'm sold on the 7/8". Smile Thanks!
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:09 pm

Alright, so i've started installing my Wilwood m/c and i've got some feedback.

To start off, before moving the holes on the m/c inboard to fit the stock studs, i wanted to take a look at the whole mounting system (since the clutch m/c has a known problem of pulling through the firewall, and the increased pedal effort of the larger m/c will likely exasperate the problem).

After removing all the stock stuff and pulling out the fuse box (which makes this a much easier project), i took a look at the studs that the stock m/c mounts on. It's no surprise that these pull right through--it's nothing more than a stud through two pieces of sheet metal! To be honest i was expecting a one-piece thick flange with the studs pressed in, or...something! But no.

My solution was to grind the studs off (no small feat, unfortunately--they're welded to the inside sheet metal) and widen the holes on the firewall to match the Wilwood m/c. This had the added benefit of giving me room to put a thick washer on the bolts. Eventually i will probably go to the firewall plate, but for now i'd like to avoid that.

So...that's what i did! I used some 1/8" thick, 2" diameter, concave washers from my miscellaneous bucket. I believe they were originally for shock absorber bushings on something, probably my Jeep. I had to cut them up quite a bit to fit in the space available, but they still distribute the load MUCH better than the stock setup. I will post pictures tonight.

I spent a decent amount of time trying to figure out the reservoir. The wilwood comes with two different sized reservoirs, but unfortunately they're both overly tall for our application in combination with the mount. It would take a bit of work to get them to fit nicely under the hood on our cars and frankly i think they're a little oversized for a clutch. So, i'm just going to stick to my late-80's Chevy truck clutch m/c reservoir. It's not as pretty, but it fits great.

And finally, on to xschops adapter--works like a champ! The factory piece has a larger diameter hole and a plastic bushing. I'm sure xschops adapter will hold up better, but i do slightly worry about getting some squeaking in there once the grease runs out. I wonder if it wouldn't just be wise to re-use the plastic? I'm not too concerned about it.

I haven't actually gotten to drive it, but hopefully will this weekend. My car is currently down while i swap rear hubs (going to an '86 rear hub in order to fit my hollow TT II's). I'll post up tonight with some pictures and let everyone know this weekend how she drives Very Happy
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  gt1scca on Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Porch wrote:It's no surprise that these pull right through--it's nothing more than a stud through two pieces of sheet metal!
See how thin the metal is in that area also?
I am having the FW plates water-jetted Monday (Laser hardens the edges...), and the price should come down a good bit, FYI.

Cool

Nice post, Chris.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:10 pm

Yeah, no kidding!
I'll pick up a firewall plate one of these days but for now i was figuring on "if it ain't broke...". Smile I still have lots of things left to do to my car so i'd rather focus on things that make it better/faster/etc! Next purchase is going to be some tuning software, then the LS430 brakes. THEN i'll worry about the firewall, especially if my mod doesn't hold up.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  ghostcloak on Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:33 pm

See how thin the metal is in that area also?
I am having the FW plates water-jetted Monday (Laser hardens the edges...), and the price should come down a good bit, FYI.

YAY PROGRESS! Laughing
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CrMo

Post  xschop on Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Use Chro-Moly grease, it will last ages with the 4130 steel. The pivot point really doesn't articulate that much, but keep us updated.....I doubt I will hear a squeek over my V8...lol
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:20 pm

I'm not terribly concerned about the squeakign. My last car had a clevis i had designed (put a hydraulic setup in a mechanical linkage car) and it squeaked a bit, so it was just something i had considered.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:28 pm

I installed mine as well and took it out today. I didn't do everything Porch did, I just took the old one out and slapped the new one in. The Mcleod hose that xschop mentioned made it a snap.

I believe it fixed my issue with not being able to get it in 1st while moving. I also believe it fixed my issue of hitting a "wall" when trying to shift 1-2 while anywhere above 50% throttle in upper RPMs. It still doesn't shift as fast as I'd like between 1st and 2nd but maybe that's just a fact of the car.

The pedal effort increased significantly. It'll be fun in rush hour traffic... Due to that, I'm kinda having mixed feelings.

It would be nice to find a 3/4" that works like the Tick adjustable, but I'll accept this for now.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:38 pm

When you say more effort, could you describe it. I never driven the Porsche so I have nothing to gauge it by. My last car was a Honda civic Si that clutch was very low effort. I have also had a 78 camaro Z28 that had a clutch so stiff that 25 years later my left leg is still bigger than my right. Thanks
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:07 pm

Modian, do you have the assist spring still installed?
Pedal effort was one of the other reasons i was leaning toward the 13/16...
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Modian on Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:59 pm

Previously, the pedal effort was pretty light - felt like my wife's Acura.

With the Wilwood, my first thought was "Jesus, I'm glad I do squats." Shocked I could definitely see larger left legs as a result of this. After driving it around a bit I got used to it, but I found myself sticking the car in neutral and letting off the pedal at lights instead of holding it in 1st like I usually do.

No assist spring installed. Sure as hell doesn't need one now, the pedal now returns with an authority.

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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:39 pm

Thanks for the good description. That new MC sounds like my old Z28. It would keep my wife from driving it.
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Re: Clutch Master Upgrade

Post  Porch on Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:44 pm

The spring assist i was asking about would actually help you push the pedal in. It's that blue spring that sits above the clutch pedal. Unless you removed it you probably still have it.

That's kinda bad news about the pedal pressure though! I definitely wish i had gone with the 13/16 or 3/4 now....
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