HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

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How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  ausgeflippt951 on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:59 pm

Hey guys --

This is an LS2 out of a TBSS. 100k miles on the clock, going into my track car.

It's my understanding that a common point of failure on LS motors is spun bearings, so as a preventive measure I had planned on replacing the rod/main bearings while it was on the stand.

I am not planning on doing a full rebuild, nor am I planning on spending time with power adders etc.



In doing some research, however, I noticed a surprising number of folks recommending against doing just bottom end bearings if I do not plan on rebuilding the whole motor.

Seems odd, which is why I thought I'd ask.
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  Techno Duck on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:48 pm

I decided not to do mine, mostly because i found the internals to be very clean indicating frequent oil changes and relatively low miles at 58k. The reasoning most suggest not replacing the rod bearings is you should really consider having the rod ends resized which means pulling pistons.. significantly adding to the scope of work. And with the rods out why not put in some nice h-beams Wink. Also the LSx uses cracked cap rods and many machinist will not do these (more difficult).

The general consensus was if you opt not to resize the rod, you either use stock rod bolts or Katech rod bolts which are marketed as stronger than stock, but do not require resizing; even then this is a gamble. If you go ARP hardware its a must to resize the rod end.

It makes me wonder if this can be attributed to the rod bearing life on the original 944 engine... many guys replace rod bearing but i don't really recall anyone ever re-sizing the rod ends.

To address the rod bearing 'weakness' i decided to go with a blue printed LS6 oil pump, good oil, a good cooler and a reasonable redline.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  ausgeflippt951 on Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:23 pm

Thanks Jon, that's just the type of feedback I was looking for.  

I haven't yet pulled the pan but will check it out.  I plan on running an external oil cooler, but am not sure which pump to go with (or whether it's necessary over stock?).

Where did you wind up getting your pump from? I had read some things about early LS1 pumps having pressure issues -- sounds like this was fixed by the time the LS2 came out?
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  Rich L. on Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:10 am

I went the other direction from techno duck and got my engine fully rebuilt before the swap with nice h-beam rods and a mild cam. They did a tune on the engine stand as well. Mine was an early engine with lots of miles, so it made sense.

Rich
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  ausgeflippt951 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:23 am

Rich, define "lots of miles"?
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  Rich L. on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:58 pm

Yeah, I don't even know. It came out of a wrecked Camaro. I asked and the wrecker he said, "Dunno. Lots."
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  Techno Duck on Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:58 pm

I went with a blueprinted pump from Katech. I read some good discussion on why not to go with the so called high volume pumps. One of the weaknesses of the LS oiling system is poor oil drainage from the heads and some believe the high volume pumps make this worse.

The rod bolts on the early LS (98-99 I think) are considered weaker so I would have done the same as Rich if I had an earlier engine.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  gdopnt on Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:00 pm

My motor is a 2000 ls1 from a Trans Am. It had 70k no ridges at top of cylinders so it was honed and new rings. The re-builder only had to polish the main and rod journals with new bearings. I reused the cracked connecting rods and used new ARP bolts. New cam and bearings, lifters, push roods, springs valve job. I used a new SLP oil pump because I went with a double roller timing chain and that pump was made for that set up because of clearance. I will say the original timing chain was sloppy and in the worst condition.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  zeusrotty on Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:57 pm

I'd leave it alone until you have an issue and then rebuild it then. Once you start taking them apart they lose that factory clearance they are designed to have. These motors with good oil will last for a very long time.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  docwyte on Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:47 am

I didn't rebuild my first LS1, which was out of a '02 Camaro. Dropped the pan and it looked really clean, had ~70k miles on it.

Ran it for three hard race seasons and it was still running fine, but leakdowns were 10-15%. So I had Thompson Motorsports build me a 383, they do use the Melling high volume oil pump, I haven't had any issues with it...

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  ausgeflippt951 on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:06 am

Thanks guys, great dialog here.

Thanks in large part to the feedback here, I have decided against refreshing the bottom end only, and instead wait until I rebuild the rest of the motor (at which point I'll also deal with valvetrain, new pushrods, cam, etc).

I am planning on installing a new Cloyes drive assembly, however. In chatting with the Cloyes folks, it looks like their Race Billet True Roller is a good fit for me, and for a reasonable price to boot.

While I've got the timing chain off, I may replace the oil pump. I've seen that the LS1s (particularly the early ones) had oil supply problems but have not seen any mention of these issues carrying over to the LS2.

Should I replace the stock LS2 pump?



Bit of a different world than our 944s, as far as the bottom end and oil pump are concerned.


Also, happy Thanksgiving guys.
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  docwyte on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:12 am

I never had any oiling issues. From what I understand, most of those issues are due to the stock oil pan, which we can't use anyways, so no worries.

Is the Cloyes drive based on the F body accesory location? You want the F body stuff....

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  Techno Duck on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:20 am

I think the LS6 and LS2 oil pumps are the same part number, the LS6 pump is considered very good, i think pretty much every modded oil pump (blue printed, high volume, high pressure) is based off a new LS6 pump core. I would go with a blue printed pump, they are pretty inexpensive and no better time to do it than with the pan off.

Is the Cloyes stuff a timing gear set? It couldnt hurt, but the LS2 chain is what many with an LS1 or LS6 upgrade to. Depends how much $$ you want to spend Smile. If you just replace with a new OE LS2 chain i would replace both sprockets at the same time.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  zeusrotty on Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:09 pm

For the price of the melting oil pump with the stronger spring, I'd just do that. I have one in mine and it gives excellent pressure. Not sure you need it, but if you plan on doing it anyway just do that. It just flows that much better.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  ausgeflippt951 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:17 am

So, I actually wound up going with an OE replacement pump by Melling (their M235 model). After doing copious research, the consensus was that there should literally be zero need for anything fancy given that my plans do not include a rebuild or upping the power/redline.

Plus, at $65 it's cheap insurance over the old, 100k mi OE pump. If I don't like it when it comes time to cam the sucker, I'll swap it with a high volume unit.


Also decided on the Cloyes Race Billet True Roller drive chain + damper. After chatting with the guys at Cloyes, a double-roller is massive overkill for anything I'll be doing. Also went with the 3 keyway rather than the 9 keyway unit...we'll see if I'm happy with that decision. Despite Cloyes' high quality, there still seems to be concern about the accuracy of the 9-keyway units, just in general.
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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

Post  FrostedFlakeJake on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:05 am

Rod bearing failure, specifically rod bearing #6, was a pretty big issue for the AWD TBSS. The oil pan has a large hole through it where the front axle passes through which caused the oiling problems.

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My ls2 came from a AWD TBSS and i'm rolling the dice on it. Oil had no signs of shiny metal and neither did the oil filter when I tore it open. Oil did have a couple thousand on it too from the looks.

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Re: How many of you replaced rod/main bearings before swap?

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