HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

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LS3

Post by kevin924kevin on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:30 pm

Very nice. so they added atleast 50 to 60 HP at the engine. Plus they do look really nice.
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:36 pm

Yes, they are very pretty...

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Slpr948 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:34 pm

OP Welcome to the forum, lot of great information and good people here to help.

Doc those ebay headers are so nice, truly a work of art!

I have been watching them for months now salivating. I just cant justify dropping that much on headers initially in my build. Mainly because I want to focus that money on areas of the build that are mandatory to get it on the road. After its on the road I plan on trying to pick up a set of those headers, do custom 3" dual exhaust, custom VVT cam and dyno tune.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:48 am

I wouldn't dawdle too long. Only one run of the headers was made and once they're gone, that's it, unless someone wants to pay for another run of 30 sets up front....

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Slpr948 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:32 am

Thanks for the heads up... I contacted him to check on the status of future orders/runs to see how worried I really need to be.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Rich L. on Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:56 pm

I have the TPC long tubes. Nearly as good, cheaper and will remain available.

Just sayin'...

Rich
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:07 am

Dan (and others), this is great feedback.  See my comments below inline in bold.

Dan J wrote:Since your car is already set up for the track, you've presumably got brakes, tires and suspension set up the way you like.  Yes, for now.  Still trying to figure out the right boost/MC combo.  Additionally, I'm planning on installing the Broadfoot fender flares which will require the use of new wheels/rubber.  Currently running the Toyo slicks (not quite where the Hoosiers are but do net about twice the life).

What kind of power was your turbo motor making? Where do you want to be and how much do you want to spend?   This is a reason I'm toying with building a 5.3L -- start small(ish) but with room to grow as a Phase 2.  My butt dyno says I'm currently around 275 rwhp at 1.05bar boost -- about as fast as a well-pedaled Cayman S.  

Consequently, I'm not looking for mega HP -- honestly would like to keep it under 400hp at the crank.  From my research, an aluminum 5.3L with LS1 heads + intake (FAST 102mm TB), and LS2 cam (or the Crane 224/232 cam), and the Kooks/TPC headers should be more than enough for me.



There are lots of ways around the barn and this forum is an outstanding place to get information from hands-on guys who have tried tons of combinations and setups. Aftermarket support is outstanding for the combinations we're using.

A relatively simple approach to 400 rear wheel hp/tq that I used is an '04 GTO LS1 motor with LS6 intake and heads, a medium cam, dual springs, lifters and ti retainers. That plus a baffled moroso oil pan and shorty headers, all running on an F-body ecu. I used shorty headers (back in 2009) but would go with the long headers if doing the project again. Cable throttle is simple using the stock pedal setup.

This combo passes emissions here in Oregon (it has dual exhaust including cats) and runs acceptably cool on the street and track using a stock 951 radiator/fans and remote oil cooler.  Fortunately no emissions here!  My car is currently street legal, fortunately, and it would be nice to keep it that way.


You will need to think about brakes and power steering. It's a matter of personal preference. To keep things simple and analog, I went with a Tilton MC + bias adjuster and manual (non-power) brakes using Big Reds, 2 piece floating 965 rotors and Kokeln adapters. The rear brakes are 951 with 030 rotors. Pedal is firm, but once the pads (EBC) are warm, pedal pressure is acceptable and linear for a race car. Steering is a 944 manual rack. Not fingertip light with 275's at parking lot speeds, but outstanding feel on the track. The only accessory on the motor is an alternator, mounted low on the driver's side.
How do you like the Tilton setup?  It might be easiest/cheapest for a Phase 1 for me to just go with the Ford booster and keep everything else as-is.

As for steering, I already have a manual sport rack.  No plans to change that.


One thing to think about before getting too far along is reinforcing the firewall. That's a weak spot and several people have taken different approaches. Around the brakes, I'm assuming?  Will look into it.  This is a common issue with Subarus.

Over the past couple years the new C7 Z06, GT350r, GT3 RS and guys with over 500hp C5 and C6 Vettes have raised the bar a bit, that's if DE is your thing. To do again, I'd probably go with a slightly bigger cam, better breathing aftermarket heads and long-tube headers. That's maybe another $2k net difference over what I have, but another 100hp. These motors are super modern and straightforward to upgrade, so you can always build up as you go.

As you know, the character of these motors is not high-strung, lightweight, screaming rev-monster though. You might be able to find a light flywheel/clutch combo to help, but it might cost you some low speed drive-ability. I'd always had small displacement, higher revving European stuff prior to this car, but have learned to embrace the simple, robust and relatively inexpensive power and torque. Think NASCAR more than Formula Atlantic.
Good point, thanks.  Agreed, it's not a refined, revvy racing motor.  Then again, neither is the stock 951 motor!

I will probably want to go with a lightweight flywheel.  What's a good company for the LS stuff?  Fidanza?


Dan.
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:08 am

Rich L. wrote:I have the TPC long tubes. Nearly as good, cheaper and will remain available.

Just sayin'...

Rich

Yeah, I am leaning this way myself. Good to have options!
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:26 am

Spec makes a nice clutch/flywheel package.

Not to disparage the TPC long tubes but they're not really in the same league as the Kooks. Mandrel bent one piece 1 7/8" equal length primarys into a 3" collector with a bullet nose to straighten the air, all stainless steel, big thick flanges etc.

No denying that you can make the majority of the power with the TPC headers for less but when I looked into the TPC headers the cost differential wasn't that much once you've gotten the TPC headers coated etc, etc...

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by FrostedFlakeJake on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:57 am

Additionally, I'm planning on installing the Broadfoot fender flares which will require the use of new wheels/rubber.

Anyone know if they got their act together? Last time i checked them out there was nothing but bad news about them...

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:04 am

They're the moderator of a 944 Facebook group that I'm on. They're pretty responsive on that group, still not sure I'd order from them tho...

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:13 am

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I just like the bolt-on look, and they're the only guys I'm aware of who are making flares like these.


Doc, how's that Spec package work on the street & low speeds? I have a pretty high pain tolerance but there is a limit.
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:18 am

The Spec clutch is pretty bomb proof. I haven't had a single issue with it.

I have been stuck in traffic with it and while it's not the greatest street clutch in the world, it doesn't judder or shake and you can modulate it.

Pedal effort is definitely higher than stock, but not herculean.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:21 am

Sounds fine then. Hell, may be better than my current setup.

Won't I need the 944 spline on it? Or are you saying that Spec makes a 944-V8 specific package?
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by FrostedFlakeJake on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:00 am

Won't I need the 944 spline on it? Or are you saying that Spec makes a 944-V8 specific package?

Sure do: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by FrostedFlakeJake on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:01 am

You can also buy them from TPC if you so choose...

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:11 am

I'll be damned! It really is a brave new world out there....
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Dan J on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:27 am

Clutch - I have the Spec stage 1 and agree it's been just fine for street and track. A lighter weight flywheel might make the motor feel a bit more crisp and responsive. It would be good to know the cost/benefit to a lighter flywheel.

Broadfoot - I bought their wide body kit (fenders, rockers & nose) in early '13 and I don't recall any huge delays. With the wide fenders, my car is running 10" & 12" wheels with 275/315 Nittos and there's room. Could probably do 315 fronts with the right offset, but it would be hard to go wider in the rear without major surgery to the inner wheel wells. BTW, if anyone out there wants the Broadfoot nose, I have one new, never fitted. I ran out of time and decided to use the 951 OEM front bodywork.

Headers - How well do the Kooks tuck up under the car - near the oil pan & collector? I'm using what would probably be called shorty headers that were a group buy via Sloan back in 2010 or so. On those, the collectors point down to the ground, which wasn't optimal for routing the exhaust back towards the rear of the car, but not impacting ground clearance. And, where are the Kooks available?

Firewall - search here and you'll see a few threads. Many install a plate in the area between both the clutch and brake MCs. It's worth doing independent of what you decide about your brake and clutch master cyl setup. Another approach is floor mounted pedals, but that requires some fabrication or adjusting your driving position.

Motor - to do again, I'd probably go with a 6.2l aluminum block and build up from there. When I built my car, the 5.7 was more common and affordable than the 6.2 on the 2nd hand market. Unless there's a huge difference in the cost of a 5.3 vs 5.7 or 6.2, it's the bolt on stuff you'll add to the motor, and that's all comparable in cost whether you start with a 5.3 or larger capacity block - heads, intake, cam, lightweight valvetrain will although this chevy stuff is simple and mega affordable compared to building a high HP Porsche motor.

Dan.
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by docwyte on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:00 am

The Kooks are pretty tight up against the body. You can get them on eBay, search for 944 V8 headers and you'll find them.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Sterling Doc on Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:18 pm

I have the Spec aluminum flywheel & clutch. With a Tilton Triple pedal, and a 3/4 MC, the clutch is easy, and super tractable. a few Revs are needed due to the low inertia, but I'd say it's very streetable.

Manual brakes are fine with a very aggressive pad (this is key).

My junkyard '04 GTO (5.7) LS1 with cleaned up 241 heads, and TPC short tube headers made 350HP/360TQ at the wheels. Stock cam (smallest LS1 cam outside of a truck application).  No power accessories, though. Just a water pump and alternator.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:00 am

Well, update time. I will be picking up a Trailblazer SS LS2 tomorrow from Philly. Thanks to a couple very helpful members on the board (thanks Jack!), I'll be snagging a harness, ECM, pedal, and TB. Also just purchased a set of the Kooks headers -- color me convinced.

Currently working with TPC to get most of the rest of the hardware.


Sterling Doc wrote:I have the Spec aluminum flywheel & clutch. With a Tilton Triple pedal, and a 3/4 MC, the clutch is easy, and super tractable. a few Revs are needed due to the low inertia, but I'd say it's very streetable.

Manual brakes are fine with a very aggressive pad (this is key).

My junkyard '04 GTO (5.7) LS1 with cleaned up 241 heads, and TPC short tube headers made 350HP/360TQ at the wheels. Stock cam (smallest LS1 cam outside of a truck application).  No power accessories, though. Just a water pump and alternator.

Impressive! I'm hoping/expecting to be around there for my Phase 1. Phase 2 will include a cam, bigger axles, etc.

Great feedback on the aluminum/lightweight clutch assembly, as this is exactly what I am going to do as well. Chatting with Kent at TPC, the Spec 2 sounds like mega overkill so I'll be sticking with the Spec 1.

I'll ask you what I've been asking everyone lately: do you recall your MC sizes for your DMC setup? What brakes are you using?




Stupid question: in addition to allowing me to tune the car, HPTuners also provides me the ability to remove ancillaries from the ECM "requirements" (like VATS, emissions, etc.) -- correct? I'm thinking, given that I will have a WB02 already in place and it's mainly a track weapon, it would behoove me to go with a full tuning system rather than a simple off-the-shelf reflash.
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:01 am

Does anyone have a spare GTO/Corvette intake manifold?


Can I reuse the Trailblazer fuel rails and injectors?
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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by Techno Duck on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:54 am

Not sure about the injectors but the fuel rail will have to be replaced. At that point i would probably just get a set of billet rails and convert everything to AN fittings.

I am using the same engine as Sterling Doc, LS1 from an '04 GTO. Rebuilt 241 heads, ported throttle body, TPC long tubes into single 4" exhaust, medium cam, stock LS6 intake manifold. Made 380whp. Probably another 30-40whp on the table with a set of good ported heads and a FAST intake.

HPTuners lets you control everything including disabling VAT and any emissions related CEL's.

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by FrostedFlakeJake on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:59 am

Can I reuse the Trailblazer fuel rails and injectors?

Fuel rails will be too tall. You can modify them which i'll be trying to do or buy new ones. Plenty of aftermarket or alot of times people sell the car manifolds complete (injectors and rail included).

I could not get the TBSS injectors to work. I heard that they can be modified to work and I tried that with no luck. There are adapters out there that work for alot of people, but I avoided them because it isn't that hard to find LS2 injectors for $100.

Expect to pay $200 or more for a bare manifold. If you could get a complete one for $300 that would be great!

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Re: New guy here: potential conversion for 1986 951 track car

Post by ausgeflippt951 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:54 am

Yeah, I'm seeing $500 for complete manifold + fuel rail and injectors. I had a funny chat with a large-ish Chevy salvage yard/recycler near me: he mentioned that the reason individual parts are so hard to come by is because no one bothers to part out the engines. They just sell the whole engine as-is....but surely there must be leftover componentry that people don't find themselves needing. Apparently it's not too plentiful.
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