944Hybrids: 924/944/968 and 928 V8 Conversions
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HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Staggered Set-up wheels + tires

+3
Rich L.
Techno Duck
FrostedFlakeJake
7 posters

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Staggered Set-up wheels + tires - Page 2 Empty Re: Staggered Set-up wheels + tires

Post  racertomtom Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:49 am

Increasing front tire width will increase front axle traction regardless of stagger. The effect will be decreasing understeer or increasing oversteer depending on the cars original behavior.

racertomtom

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Post  FrostedFlakeJake Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:18 pm

So how much of an effect does a torsion bar (anti-sway bar) have in comparison to the tire?

Could I use a really fat rear and relatively narrow front sway bay to overcome the inherent understeer I would see with a 245/275 stagger? Or would the balance likely be too far off to begin with?

FrostedFlakeJake

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Post  racertomtom Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:01 pm

This goes along with what docwyte said.

A car/driver combination is a team. You tune a car to compliment a particular driver, when that one driver is comfortable in the car, you should have a good team. Cars are all different, drivers are all different. The next driver might think that car is a POS. You can even tune two cars to yourself with identical setups, one works, one doesn’t. Go Figure.

The amount of variables involved in tuning a suspension/chassis would make a “how to” book a series of books the size of an old set of encyclopedias. I’m surprised there isn’t a site or forum dedicated to that. It’s not all that cut and dried, even for professionals.

This means that no one has right or wrong answers, only opinions. This is also why everyone is hesitant to answer questions or comment. With that said………..

racertomtom

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Post  racertomtom Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:10 pm

FrostedFlakeJake wrote:So how much of an effect does a torsion bar (anti-sway bar) have in comparison to the tire?

Could I use a really fat rear and relatively narrow front sway bay to overcome the inherent understeer I would see with a 245/275 stagger? Or would the balance likely be too far off to begin with?
I don’t like the 245/275 combo on your rims because star spec tires call for a 235-245/255 on 8/9” rims. Too narrow a rim will bulge the tire and you’ll have to lower air pressure to get a good contact patch. If anything other than a recommended rim, I’d go with a wider rim and run more pressure for a firmer ride and perhaps more response.

The torsion bar is a pretty significant adjustment as it’s more or less the rear spring. Sway bars will also adjust over/understeer but are better suited to control camber adjustments during very hard turns.

I’d use tire pressure, camber and sway bars to adjust tire temps across the tread (contact patch), and tire size, springs, weight and ride height to adjust over/understeer. Replacing torsion bars with coilovers will make rear spring adjustments much cheaper and easier in the long run.

racertomtom

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Post  FrostedFlakeJake Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:16 am

I don’t like the 245/275 combo on your rims because star spec tires call for a 235-245/255 on 8/9” rims. Too narrow a rim will bulge the tire and you’ll have to lower air pressure to get a good contact patch. If anything other than a recommended rim, I’d go with a wider rim and run more pressure for a firmer ride and perhaps more response.

The torsion bar is a pretty significant adjustment as it’s more or less the rear spring. Sway bars will also adjust over/understeer but are better suited to control camber adjustments during very hard turns.

I’d use tire pressure, camber and sway bars to adjust tire temps across the tread (contact patch), and tire size, springs, weight and ride height to adjust over/understeer. Replacing torsion bars with coilovers will make rear spring adjustments much cheaper and easier in the long run.

Well i wouldn't be able to run star specs because they don't make a 275 in 17"s. Most of the crowd favorite 200 UTQG autocross tires only go to 255 in 17"s. Star specs, RS-3 v2's, Rival S, etc.

Toyo R1R is another 200 tire i can run in 275/245. All the tires i'm considering for 275/245 have their minimum rim width at 9 and 8" respective.

Are you saying that running the minimum recommended rim width would also cause me to have bad contact area?

Just trying to understand Smile

I'm also concerned with how much effort it would to take to fit 275's in the front. From my stock 15" fuchs, the 8" wheels i bought have the same inner clearance in the front but get pushed out 26 mm which is practically 1". Putting the 9" wheels in the front will give me 17mm less inner clearance and push the lip out towards the fender 33mm more then stock. I guess i better get under the car to try to get an idea of kind of clearance I have.

FrostedFlakeJake

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Post  racertomtom Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:33 pm

FrostedFlakeJake wrote:
Toyo R1R is another 200 tire i can run in 275/245. All the tires i'm considering for 275/245 have their minimum rim width at 9 and 8" respective.

Are you saying that running the minimum recommended rim width would also cause me to have bad contact area?
Probably. The recommended rim for a Toyo R1R in a 275/40ZR/17 is 9.5” so a 9” will very likely bulge even though the recommended range is 9-11”.

https://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t2666-tire-size-width

racertomtom

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Post  Rich L. Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:22 pm

Pretty good article:
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3974/How-to-PROPERLY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

Bottom line, there's a lot more too it than "wider is better".
Rich L.
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Post  docwyte Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:24 pm

I doubt it'll bulge. I run 275-40-17 Nitto NT01/Toyo RA1's on 9" wheels. They don't bulge. Don't put too much credence in those numbers.

docwyte

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Post  racertomtom Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:27 pm

Rich L. wrote:Pretty good article:
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3974/How-to-PROPERLY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

Bottom line, there's a lot more too it than "wider is better".
+1

racertomtom

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Post  FrostedFlakeJake Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:43 am

Pretty good article:
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3974/How-to-PROPERLY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

Bottom line, there's a lot more too it than "wider is better".

+1, very good article!

This makes me much more comfortable running 255's in the rear... I know what the article said about tread width relative to rim width, but I still think i'll run Star Specs in 255's with a 10" tread width on my 9's in the rear and 245's with a 9" tread width on my 8" wheels in the front.

Thanks for the great discussion fellas!

FrostedFlakeJake

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Post  eohrnberger Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:06 pm

Squaring off the tire / wheel sizes was the best decision I ever made for my track toy Porsche.

It sees nearly only track duty, so moving tires around is almost a must, depending on the track.  The local track I run most often is mostly tight right handers so the fronts are getting the wear and mostly the left.

Being able to move the wheels front to rear has been the blessing to balance out tire wear.

Of course, you mileage may vary depending on your driving style and your most frequent track.
eohrnberger
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