HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

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Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:01 am

Hello everyone my name is Steve. I’ve been lurking on here for about a year after I purchased an 86 944. I have an odd love for “creative” mashups. I have a 67 International Crewcab body (made from two donors) that I grafted onto the fully functional chassis of a 96 GM truck. This truck is my daily driver with about 40k miles on it. The total cost of that build was about $4,500. Here is a link to that project if you are interested. Project Halfbreed Link


After doing that project I learned a little more about myself and what my limitations are. I wanted to do another project but did not want to get into extensive exterior sheet metal mods. I like to cut and weld structural stuff but I don’t have the skills or patience for the cosmetic sheet metal finish work. I also like the “extra” challenge of trying to make a unique finished car for a budget. So I started looking for “special” cars that were affordable to acquire. This led me to the 944’s. After reading up about them on Pelican, Rennlist and here I decided that the 944 platform fit my need – a nice body with a whole lot of mechanical problems. And while I’m on the subject of the 944’s problems let me add that after a year of working on it (and continuing to read daily posts about them) I have to say that I don’t hold much respect for the team that was behind the 944 at Porsche. In my opinion (and it’s just my opinion) these cars have really nice bodies that are well constructed… period. Nearly all other aspects of the car – especially the electrical and mechanical stuff - are not in sync with the legendary aura that surrounds the Porsche brand.

My goal for this car is to end up with something that runs reliably, does not cost a fortune to maintain and looks normal from the outside – all on a budget of about $5,000. I’ll say that again because it’s such an oxymoron – I want a Porsche that runs reliably and does not require constant time and money to maintain. So I came up with a strategy that was loosely based on my experience with the truck – put modern American technology wherever the 944 needed it. End of rant… on with my build!

The first major change I made to the 944 (and you might want to sit down before reading this) was to remove the entire engine bay and front suspension and replace it with gear from a late 90’s Ford Mustang. The purpose of this was to: 1) create more room in the bay for whatever engine I put in it, 2) equip my 944 with wear items that were affordable and easy to obtain (brakes, bushings, shocks, etc) 3) have access to the extensive list of aftermarket performance options that are available for the fox body Mustangs. If you want to read about the details of what I did and how I did it here is a link: Link to my 944 build on Alternate Tinkerings


This brings us up to current time in the build. Yesterday I purchased an L67 motor for it. It’s a 2002 with unknown mileage but based on the general condition of the donor car I suspect it had about 150-175k.

So far I am at $2,116 in expenses for the purchase of the 944, the donor Mustang and the L67. I’ll keep you all posted on my progress from time to time and eventually I’m sure I will have some questions or need some help from you guys. Thanks for following along.

Sorry about the lack of pictures but this site isn't exactly the most user friendly experience I've had with pictures. I'll eventually get it figured out I suppose.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  haroldk on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:28 pm

I'm looking forward to pictures. This should be good!
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:26 pm

OK a test of my ability to comprehend anti-UI websites...

...and a fail... OMG this has got to be the most retarded process I have yet encountered for a forum.

I did the search and found the highly complex instructions. Read them. Reminded myself that I was able to get a drivers license, graduate from high school, from college, from grad school, buy a house, post pictures on 4 or 5 other forums. But for this site? Nope.

So sorry guys but if you want to see pictures and keep up with the build just follow me over here to this place.... (Plenty of Pics too.)

Sparky's 944 Build Happy Place
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  haroldk on Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:31 pm

I don't think I've posted any pictures here, I always just link to other places.

I love the project. I'm a big fan of unconventional stuff.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  944-LT1 on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:32 pm

sparkydog wrote:OK a test of my ability to comprehend anti-UI websites...

...and a fail... OMG this has got to be the most retarded process I have yet encountered for a forum.

Seems to work just fine.  Laughing

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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  racertomtom on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Nice skills! You've spent enough on tooling and jigs to buy a 948 conversion. Laughing What are your plans for pedals with the firewall set back? Will the originals fit?

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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:04 pm

Tonight's update:

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This is stab #2 of who knows how many. Stock L67 A/C compressor was the first thing to remove just to get it where it is in the photo. Many more tweaks to go before there is a final resting place for the awkward new couple.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:30 pm

racertomtom wrote: You've spent enough on tooling and jigs to buy a 948 conversion. Laughing

You mean a 948 conversion only costs $15?! Shocked
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  haroldk on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:24 am

Does it look like you'll be able to use a vacuum booster?
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  v2rocket on Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:58 pm

I have long wondered about the L67 for the 944 but as far as my understanding based on an in-person conversation with a CARB referee...if a motor came with an electronically-controlled automatic transmission it has to use that transmission.

That conversation is why I don't have a Northstar V8 in my car...or an L67.
But if you can get it certified with a 944 stickshift...I'll be right behind you.

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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:58 am

I've been on the phone with a surprisingly helpful BAR employee but there will probably be disagreement between that side of the bureaucracy and the referee side. Not to mention variation among the referees. The BAR guy is way more helpful and creative than I would have thought possible. Once I get my "preferred" physical mockup of the powertrain, exhaust and air intake ready I want to tow it into a referee station and get an early reaction then go from there.

I won't be using the 944's transaxle either - it will have a T5/T56 behind the L67 and an 8.8 Ford IRS diff out back but tied into the 944 swing arms and torsion bars.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  v2rocket on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:26 am

sparkydog wrote:I've been on the phone with a surprisingly helpful BAR employee but there will probably be disagreement between that side of the bureaucracy and the referee side. Not to mention variation among the referees. The BAR guy is way more helpful and creative than I would have thought possible. Once I get my "preferred" physical mockup of the powertrain, exhaust and air intake ready I want to tow it into a referee station and get an early reaction then go from there.

I won't be using the 944's transaxle either - it will have a T5/T56 behind the L67 and an 8.8 Ford IRS diff out back but tied into the 944 swing arms and torsion bars.
Sounds cool.
Maybe get it certified as an L36 and then L67 it when you get home :p

Why not transplant an entire Ford 8.8IRS? I've been doing some measuring of just that, the T-bird/Mk8 IRS and it looks like it'd fit pretty darn well back there. Then you'd have a more modern multi-link (from a car designed in 1989, not a 1950s Beetle!) which is comfier and more adjustable. Also has a decent amount of aftermarket thanks to the Cobra kit guys.

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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:37 am

I pulled the IRS diff out of a 90's Cougar and a full transplant was/is a possibility. The Ford/Coug wheelbase is significantly wider than the 944 so that would have meant either fender mods to the 944 or significant mods to the IRS. Also the Coug and 944 spindle bearing ID's are identical so the Ford spindle will fit into the 944 swing arms and... I guess I just want to try it this way to start out and have something "Abnormal". Cool
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  haroldk on Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:16 am

sparkydog wrote:I pulled the IRS diff out of a 90's Cougar and a full transplant was/is a possibility. The Ford/Coug wheelbase is significantly wider than the 944 so that would have meant either fender mods to the 944 or significant mods to the IRS. Also the Coug and 944 spindle bearing ID's are identical so the Ford spindle will fit into the 944 swing arms and... I guess I just want to try it this way to start out and have something "Abnormal". Cool

I guess the '99-01 and '03-'04 Cobra rear track are different. Rear track on the '99 is 59.9" and the '03 is 60.3". The 944 rear track is 57.13". If you use the suspension and wheels from the '99 Cobra, the wheels will be 1.375" farther out than stock with no modifications to the suspension members. If you're going to modify it by that much, I don't know that it would be much of an advantage using that over making one from scratch.

The '99 wheels have a 30mm offset, so you'd need a 65mm offset in the same width to get the stock 944 track width. I would assume wheels like that wouldn't clear the brakes.

I personally don't want flares because I like that my car looks like a stock 944 apart from the badge. People give me funny looks when I go past. I've often fantasized about having a better rear suspension, but I would also want to make it such that I could put a Corvette transaxle back there. That may be possible with the Cobra/Tbird IRS, but I couldn't say for sure.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:07 am

haroldk wrote: If you're going to modify it by that much, I don't know that it would be much of an advantage using that over making one from scratch.

The preliminary plan is to simply shorten the Ford IRS axles, run the Ford spindles in the 944 swing arms, fab adapter brackets to mount the Ford calipers onto the 944 swing arm and fab a bracket to hold the Ford diff. I'm a few months away from that phase of the build. As a backup plan, I saved the rear section of the Mustang frame (from the same car that donated the front frame) and I could graft that into the 944 in lieu of the 944 torsion bars and swing arms. Then I would have multiple options for either solid axle or the Cobra IRS module. But as you point out I would also then have track width issues to contend with.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:19 am

v2rocket wrote:
Maybe get it certified as an L36 and then L67 it when you get home :p

Yes this has crossed my mind. I need a tranny, bell housing, clutch, flywheel, pedals etc out of an L36 Camaro/Firebird anyway - and I hear that the engine accessories off these same cars work better for running on the L67 in a RWD configuration. The BAR guy already suggested that I run the Camaro/Firebird exhaust system on the L67. So I think I'll buy an entire donor car, harvest all these components along with the L36. If the refs totally reject my attempt at the L67 then I have the option to go "v2rocket" style.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  jimlam56 on Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:02 pm

Cool project, I admire your fearless attitude!

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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:51 pm

I'm finally back on my little hobby. Here's a couple of shots of the Ford Coug 8.8 diff, axle and hub mocked up inside my 944.
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As you all probably already knew - the Porsche diff has the Cl of the driveline above the axle outputs and the Ford diff is the opposite. So in order for the Ford diff pinion to clear the top of the 944's torsion bar housing it puts the axle CL's about 3.5" above the ride height of the wheels. This is about a 10* - 11* angle for the axle CV joints.


Last edited by sparkydog on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:57 pm

The stock Cougar axles are a little too long to fit inside the 944 swing arms so for mockup purposes I just slid the diff to the side, assembled the axles into the swing arm along with my dummy wheel bearings (same dims as the Porsche bearings just fabbed out of aluminum and slip fit instead of press fit). This allows me to figure out how much shorter of an axle I would need should I opt to really go this route.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:09 pm

Can anyone confirm that the center section of the Porsche torsion bar housing contains the female splines for the torsion bars to fit into? It looks like a casting that is part of the overall weldment of the housing. Myself and others are wondering because if this is so then cutting this out in order to allow the drive shaft/pinion to run through that area would be verboten. Has anyone ever cut up one of these housings?
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TT

Post  kevin924kevin on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:23 am

Yes i can confirm that the center section does have the splines. I have cut mine out to allow my Z06 six speed trans.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:21 pm

Thanks for the quick reply kevin^2924! I found your build thread and read the entire thing - but about 1/2 the pictures did not display so I could not see if there were any of what you did to the torsion housing. I am assuming you did a Tbar delete and are going to use coilovers? Next I googled 944 tbar delete and tried to read a few of the results - most of them off Rennlist. I'm not sure if I got all of it in the first read through but it sounds like a tbar delete involves some kind of mod to the spring plates? Also a stronger lower shock mount bolt and debate about reinforcement to the upper shock mount area?
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:56 pm

After doing the mockups with the Ford IRS diff and looking at the tradeoffs I would have to make I've decided this is not the way to go. As we've all noticed the CL of the driveline wants to run right where the 944 Tbar housing sits. It is possible to do a "Tbar delete" and run coil overs but there are other mods that accompany it. Even then I would be running custom shortened axles so when the CV joints wear out I'm faced with expensive replacements. Since my goal is to try and have a car that is affordable to maintain and repair I think my best option is to ditch the 944 rear suspension and graft in the Mustang setup.

So I pulled out the Mustang junk, disassembled the axle from the floor, cleaned up the floor and then studied where to do some trimming in order to get it down to the essential structure that needs to go into the Porsche.

I ended up with this plan and set about doing the trimming.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  sparkydog on Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:58 pm

P stuff is out. Different F stuff ready to try and go in.
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Re: Sparkydog's Abnormal Build - 944 With L67 + Ford Stuff & CARB Legal

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:40 pm

Not sure if this helps but here's a pic of Eric's 2002 viper rear differential conversion.

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