HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.
Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin
For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.
When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).
After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …
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Hydroboost without power steering rack!
+6
phlip
xschop
Dawgz83948
docwyte
948inVA
Lemming
10 posters
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Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Ok, I was trying to set this up and just got off the phone with Tallon Hydraulics. He said that without the power steering rack, you will not build any pressure in the hydroboost system and it is useless He stated that some drag racers using a relief valve but that is not advisable for road racing and or a daily driver.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Ok, so according to this thread https://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t696-hydroboost-without-power-steering?highlight=hydroboost
I have to put a restrictor on the outflow from the hydroboost. Does anyone know the orifice size?
Who is currently running this setup??????
I have to put a restrictor on the outflow from the hydroboost. Does anyone know the orifice size?
Who is currently running this setup??????
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
I have mine set up without the rack or restrictor and it builds pressure just fine.. where is that guy getting his information?
948inVA- Posts : 224
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : n. virginia
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
supes6 wrote:I have mine set up without the rack or restrictor and it builds pressure just fine.. where is that guy getting his information?
Not sure. Can you describe your setup?
Which power steering pump are you running, GM or Turn one? If turn one are you restricting flow?
He also said that with a flow rate of 3 gpm of the GM pump that the setup would foam like crazy.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
I'm using the GTO pump, mustang hydroboost, mustang master cylinder, mustang prop. valve. High pressure line goes from pump to hydroboost. For that I modified the line that came with my HB - cut the metal section at the pump end, added a flared union, and mated it to a section of 3/8" metal fuel line with the GM o-ring end already formed. Then there are 2 outlets from the hydroboost, which go into a tee fitting and then back to the reservoir.
So far it's been pretty reliable for street duty, I've been running it for close to 2 years with no issues. I can tell the brake bias is a little off but it's not really an issue on the street. The power assist is definitely more powerful than it was with the stock vacuum booster.
So far it's been pretty reliable for street duty, I've been running it for close to 2 years with no issues. I can tell the brake bias is a little off but it's not really an issue on the street. The power assist is definitely more powerful than it was with the stock vacuum booster.
948inVA- Posts : 224
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : n. virginia
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Ok, the guy had me in a panic.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Excellent hydroboost tutorial at http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Article/38431/operation_diagnosis_and_repair_of_hydroboost_power_assist_systems.aspx
Based on this information, I can see why having some back pressure on the power steering line (gear port) would give greater braking assist.
Based on this information, I can see why having some back pressure on the power steering line (gear port) would give greater braking assist.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
You need the Turn 1 pump for track use. You also need a PS cooler for track use, along with an adjustable proportioning valve...
I can't comment on the manual rack, I've always had a powered rack...
I can't comment on the manual rack, I've always had a powered rack...
docwyte- Posts : 1393
Join date : 2010-07-18
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
docwyte wrote:You need the Turn 1 pump for track use. You also need a PS cooler for track use, along with an adjustable proportioning valve...
I can't comment on the manual rack, I've always had a powered rack...
I thought people were using the turn one pump because of the PS rack, not the hydroboost. If it's an issue of flow, I can buy a flow reducer (3 - 2 gpm) on summit?
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Hey guys. Sorry I'm late to the party, I'm out of country for another week. I ran BMW hydro boost with the manual rack. Initially we tried no oriface, which equalled no boost. Then I closed off the rack tube, which resulted in the destruction of the accumulator. I drilled out a 1/8" hole and increased the size 3 times in very small stages based on pedal effort and power steering pump complaints at higher rpms.
Dawgz83948- Posts : 603
Join date : 2009-06-08
Location : Ca.
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
My HB worked great this past Saturday without having to add any restriction after the HB unit. In fact, I would say that the unit is over boosted, all I need is my big toe to stop the car!
Setup: Stock LS1 PS pump, 8-an line from pump to HB, two 6-an lines from HB to cooler, then 8-an back to the pump. PS fluid temps reached 207 after a full session (Redline fluid). The cooler does not currently have a direct flow of air from the front dam, that may change.
Setup: Stock LS1 PS pump, 8-an line from pump to HB, two 6-an lines from HB to cooler, then 8-an back to the pump. PS fluid temps reached 207 after a full session (Redline fluid). The cooler does not currently have a direct flow of air from the front dam, that may change.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
What is the final word on factory F-body PS pump, Mustang hydroboost and manual rack?
We are going to a de-powered rack on a local LS swap.
We are going to a de-powered rack on a local LS swap.
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Yes, it did work. You need to put a cooler on the system to keep temps down. In the end, I did not like the feel of the system, very hard to modulate near threshold braking. I don't think the 1" master for both front and back worked well on my system (Integra 6R front / 951 rear calipers). Even with a proportioning valve on the rears, I could never dial enough rear brake out of the system. Even tried running non-agressive pads on the rear to no avail.
By the way, my HB system (with cooler and mount) are up for sale.
By the way, my HB system (with cooler and mount) are up for sale.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Good news actually Tim. To be specific, do you have a set of front 951 calipers on your rears?
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
No, using rear 951 calipers in the rear.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Just confirming, because your situation sounds just like how the Wildwood 1" tandem MC behaves. Has anyone tried adapting the 951 MC to the Mustang hydroboost?
I'm modding his power rack and he's got the Mustang unit installed already......
I'm modding his power rack and he's got the Mustang unit installed already......
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
I seem to remember someone on this cite making an adapter, but can't remember who that was.
For the 6R/951 caliper setup, the following MC sizes seem to work the best: 5/8 front, 3/4 rear. I tried 3/4 on both ends, but was not getting enough pressure to the front end, thus I went down 1/8.
For the 6R/951 caliper setup, the following MC sizes seem to work the best: 5/8 front, 3/4 rear. I tried 3/4 on both ends, but was not getting enough pressure to the front end, thus I went down 1/8.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
I copied 948's adapter to mount 951 master to ford hydroboost.
Look in this thread https://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t1689p90-hydroboost-mounting-plate
Ive only driven a little cause I have a clutch vibration thats pissin me off, But the brakes work well.
Bias is very neutral.
My fab guy may consider making more, but its probably not hard to figure out.
Only draw back I can see is i cant fit my tower brace
Look in this thread https://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t1689p90-hydroboost-mounting-plate
Ive only driven a little cause I have a clutch vibration thats pissin me off, But the brakes work well.
Bias is very neutral.
My fab guy may consider making more, but its probably not hard to figure out.
Only draw back I can see is i cant fit my tower brace
phlip- Posts : 67
Join date : 2012-08-11
Location : Dallas
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
The adapter 948 made to retain the stock master is a great idea. Like Lemming said the Ford Mustang master cylinder changes the pedal feel quite a bit. I am using S4 front and stock turbo rear calipers and the pedal travel is quite short now due to the larger 1" bore. The bias feels fine though between the front and rear; i have it dialed in using a Tilton bias valve. If i remember right i have it set at one click forward from the middle position.
It took some getting used to the pedal, but overall i have been happy with how they feel on the track.
It took some getting used to the pedal, but overall i have been happy with how they feel on the track.
Techno Duck- Posts : 447
Join date : 2010-12-01
Location : San Diego, CA
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
What are the piston sizes on the front S4's?
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
xschop wrote:What are the piston sizes on the front S4's?
IIRC they are 36/34 mm. Not 100% sure.
Lemming- Posts : 855
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : B'ham
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
Yeah they are somewhere in that vicinity. I rode in an LS swapped car with mustang hydroboost and the LS 430 calipers (43/43) upfront and factory NA single piston calipers (36mm iirc) and it was awesome braking and no rear lock-up.
When I did my 928 LS1 swap, I copied this exact setup because vacuum booster stayed (23mm master) and the braking was phenomenal as well. The rears could have used a little more bite, but wasn't worth messing with.
When I did my 928 LS1 swap, I copied this exact setup because vacuum booster stayed (23mm master) and the braking was phenomenal as well. The rears could have used a little more bite, but wasn't worth messing with.
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
brakes
Hello, my Big Blacks are 44mm/36mm. They are the same as the Big Reds, just a different mount set up. My rears are S2 4piston at 30mm/ 27mm. This should work with the hydroboost.
kevin924kevin- Posts : 927
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 60
Location : Canada
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
There are "Big Reds" (993tt), "Big Blacks" (928 GTS) and "S4 brakes" (928 S4, 944 Turbo S, 944 Turbo/968 w/ m030). They all have the same piston sizes, 44/36mm.
Rich
Rich
Rich L.- Posts : 928
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : Seattle
Re: Hydroboost without power steering rack!
The Audi S8 front calipers are 44 x 40 with larger pads than the Big Reds or Blacks.
I will be working on a set soon for a 928S and Late 944 that adapts a full set of Lexus monoblocks calipers on factory rotors. The rears are dual piston 38mm.
I will be working on a set soon for a 928S and Late 944 that adapts a full set of Lexus monoblocks calipers on factory rotors. The rears are dual piston 38mm.
xschop- Posts : 2711
Join date : 2009-06-09
Location : OKC
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