HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

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All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:37 pm

I've got the Mustang Hydroboost and 1" master cylinder. I used 12mm to 10mm adapters at the master and ran stock-sized lines from there. I used a T for the front lines and ran the rears through a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve. The issue is that it appears all 4 wheels are stuck on with nothing applied to the pedal. It seems to bleed down after a while of being parked (I'm not sure how long since I haven't had much time to test it). I jacked up both ends of the car and checked each wheel. They're all very hot. I can't move the fronts by hand with the car in the air. I can move the rears by hand, but only just.

I can't imagine this is because the car was sitting for 2 years because the rears still had fluid in them and I've never seen a frozen caliper return after sitting before. I believe the 12mm-10mm adapters I'm using have passages that are at least as big as the ID of the stock brake lines, but I'd have to pull them to find out for sure.

Anybody have any ideas?
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  Lemming on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:44 pm

Any chance that the master cylinder plunger is not retracting far enough and is keeping pressure on the system?
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:46 pm

Lemming wrote:Any chance that the master cylinder plunger is not retracting far enough and is keeping pressure on the system?
It's possible, but I'm not sure how I would go about checking or fixing that. Would I be able to see it if I removed the reservoir? The cylinder I had is new, but that's not to say it couldn't be defective. It's also possible it was over-extended before there was fluid in the system, so that may have damaged it. At least these ones are cheap.

It would actually make sense if this were the case because the rears wouldn't be getting as much pressure as the fronts. The valve is currently set with the knee point as low as it can go.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  Lemming on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:52 pm

First try pulling the brake pedal back. If you are against the stop, you should be able to adjust the pushrod to make is shorter and therefore less preload. I had this issue when I put my DMC system together.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:56 pm

Lemming wrote:First try pulling the brake pedal back.  If you are against the stop, you should be able to adjust the pushrod to make is shorter and therefore less preload.  I had this issue when I put my DMC system together.  
The pedal is naturally forward from the stop because my clevis isn't quite long enough to be able to adjust it all the way out. I'll pull the brake switch tomorrow, though, and see if I can get a little more upward travel out of it.

I actually have the same issue with my clutch. I need to extend the clevis on that so my clutch grabs a little farther off the floor.

It's not the end of the world if I have to pull the brake master anyway. The header bolts on that side loosened up a bit and I can't get at the rear ones with all that brake equipment in the way.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  suboptimalfit on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:13 pm

not familiar with hydroboost systems, however with standard (american) boosters there is an adjustable
pushrod inside. if too long, it drags the brakes (even locks them up).
i use a small ball of clay on the pushrod, install master by hand (to squish clay) and remove. .060" is enough of an air gap. too much and pedal is too low/too long a throw to "feel good".

on some aftermarket custom adapted boosters there is NO adjustment- i have cut off and dressed the tip in that case.
it's a pain, but most are out of adjustment and does make a difference.
good luck. keep that ford going!

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HB MC

Post  simon123 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:42 am

Are you using a Mustang Master Cylinder? Is it the correct one for the HB unit?

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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:41 am

simon123 wrote:Are you using a Mustang Master Cylinder? Is it the correct one for the HB unit?
Yep, both the booster and master are for a 1997 Mustang GT.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  Lemming on Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:18 am

Did you find the problem?
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:29 am

No, right after I posted about this, I started having back issues. I've got a bunch of parts to put on the car and I haven't been able to go out and work on it.

I did discover I've got a power steering leak from somewhere. I'm thinking it's the equalizer tube on the rack. I'm thinking I need to fix that and make sure all the air is out of the system before I can really troubleshoot it. I recall seeing something about how air in the power steering system can cause the brakes to stick, so I'm really hoping that's it.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  zeusrotty on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:29 pm

Its a 944 so leaks are the norm. If it isn't leaking then you know you have issues.

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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:31 pm

zeusrotty wrote:Its a 944 so leaks are the norm.  If it isn't leaking then you know you have issues.

Somehow, I don't think the tech guys will accept that as an excuse for dumping ATF on the course.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:39 am

Due to back issues, a seriously bad cold and some cold weather, I haven't been able to get out and work on the car since I posted this. One thing I have noticed, though, is that I've got a power steering leak somewhere. Could air in the system have something to do with this? I read somewhere about people having issues with the pedal not returning properly until the system was bled.

I'm hoping to get out there tonight and see where this leak is. I'm a little worried it's the rack since I can't see anything wet above the crossmember and the reservoir is completely dry. I'll know more when I can get it up on stands, of course.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  pormgb on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:23 pm

A few weeks back I experienced a similar problem, after driving the car quite hard my brakes seemed to be applying by them selves. I would pull over, pump the brake pedal a few times and the brakes would back off. My brakes would only bind when driving the car at high RPMs then driving at low RPMs around my neighborhood.

I done some research and found out that fluid returning from the Hydroboost (low pressure return) must not travel around any bends, the fluid should have a straight path back to the reservoir.  I think bends slow down fluid returning from the Hydroboost, the backup of fluid caused the binding.

If a TEE has been installed collecting fluid from the rack and Hydroboost, the TEE side should go the rack and the straight sides go the Hydroboost and reservoir.

I took a look at my setup and found my TEE installed incorrectly, I made the adjustment and so far I have experienced no binding.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:27 am

Well, I think that tells me what my problem is, then. My power steering cooler is only a 5/16" in and out. On top of that, the tee might be installed wrong. Since I've got a leak to track down anyway, I may as well take the cooler out of the loop and see if that fixes it.
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HB Plumbing

Post  simon123 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:44 am

My HB return line goes to the leg of the T, the arms of the T go to the rack and to the original PS cooler that I moved to left side of the car, the other end of the cooler connects to the PS reservoir.
Never experienced the reported problem.

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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  pormgb on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:21 am

Not every HB installation has the problem, if you google Hydroboost return problem, lots of references will show up regarding this issue. A restrictive oil cooler could also cause this problem, there are guidelines on hose size to get maximum flow.

The best configuration is to have a reservoir with two returns, I was thinking of modifying the FBody unit or pickup an aftermarket aluminum unit with two returns but the problem seems to have gone.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/brakes/617666-hydroboost-info-lessons-learned.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-non-hardcore/1099791-hydroboost-issues.html
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:06 am

I know there's a reservoir available for my pump with 2 return fittings, but I also know they won't work with my application. I'll have to pull the reservoir off my pump and put in another fitting. I'm a little worried about it leaking, though.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  pormgb on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:16 am

haroldk wrote:I know there's a reservoir available for my pump with 2 return fittings, but I also know they won't work with my application. I'll have to pull the reservoir off my pump and put in another fitting. I'm a little worried about it leaking, though.

Yea, another problem with the aftermarket unit is to get it low enough to function properly.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

Post  haroldk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:25 am

pormgb wrote:
Yea, another problem with the aftermarket unit is to get it low enough to function properly.

I meant there's an OEM Ford application that has 2 returns on it for my pump. The issue with mine is that we shaved the accessory brackets 0.200" to get more clearance on the headlight mechanism and line up with the crank pulley we were using, and I'm pretty sure the returns on that cover would hit the head.
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Re: All 4 corners sticking on with Mustang master cylinder

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