HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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A-Arm Brace

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A-Arm Brace

Post  Luke714 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:06 am

Hello all!

Does anyone have a brace that runs between the pivots of the front A-Arms?  I've heard that with a strut tower brace this combination makes a big difference.  Which braces fit with our conversions?  This is the only brace I seem to find:

http://www.bkauto.com/R_1524_Front_Cross_Brace_for_944_and_968_p/r-1524.htm

and it's wicked expensive. I could probably make my own without too much trouble, but I'm not around my shop often enough to make that convenient anymore Sad 

Cheers,

Luke
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  cjbcpa on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:01 pm

That's the one I have and the only one of its type I have ever seen.

While its expensive, their service is great. I am using Racers Edge spherical A-arm bushings, which are not the same dimension as stock. Consequently the mountings pieces would not fit. Quick call to B-K and the larger mounts were sent free of charge.

Does it help, I don't know. I made so many improvements in the suspension over last winter the improvements can't be isolated to any single component.
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  Luke714 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:44 am

Good to know! Thank you, it probably won't be on the top of my list, but it's good knowing the company is reputable!
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  87-944S on Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:47 pm

That is a beautiful piece, with the V8 and and dual exhaust how does it fit? I am intending on building my own, it won't be that pretty though. Very Happy 
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:58 am

that cross brace does nothing at all for the 944 chassis .
they were and are a great idea for the 1st gen golfs that the design of the control arms came from as the frame rail's on the vw are very weak and flexible . the 944 has non of the flex the VW chassis has . also there the brace bolts to is totally wrong the cornering force loads are not put on the control arms were this brace bolts up .
I know 1st hand they don't work as I installed one on my 944 the steering feel was no different and the lap times did not change at all . even the upper strut tie bar does nothing for the 944's chassis . that too will not change the feel or handling or give you a faster lap time .
if your looking to do some thing on the 944's suspension there is so much to do on the rear suspension that will really do some thing to make the car handle and feel better that will give you faster lap times .
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  xschop on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:48 am

The top brace I made did help handling on my swap, But I did have a heavier iron-block LS engine.

For the bottom brace, not sure they help either. I made a couple years ago using heim joints and extension blocks on the rear CA bushings for a few track cars.
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:25 pm

any upper strut tower brace or any chassis brace for all that matters that has any type of bearing spherical , roller , ball no matter what makes a chassis brace worthless .
any and all bracing should be solid mounted with out the use of bearing .
think about what the purpose of a brace does ?
now add a pivot point with the use of a bearing on it .
and the point of the bearing is for what on a strut tower brace ?
the upper and lower areas of the 944 chassis were the suspension bolts up are boxed right from the VW /audi plant . then Porsche designed a aluminum cross member for the suspension to bolt up to instead of the weak and flexible chassis only mounting on the gen 1 golfs and jettas .
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  xschop on Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:31 pm

If you've ever owned one with factory firewall flex/breakage that needs welding, you'll want anything that keeps the towers from moving laterally.
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  962porsche on Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:45 pm

you could be right ?
I know from what I have seen and so on that the front ends of the 944 chassis do not benefit at all from any front bracing .
even though i'm kind of retired now I have 30 years of designing and building race chassis for sports car . I have a degree in chassis engineering work at Porsche AG for years one of my jobs was the engineer on the 968 race cars .
owned my own chassis race shop for years have owned god knows how many 944 chassised car I have 9 right now .
I have two 944's in my shop now for suspension work .
the only time I see a fire wall cracked was for around the peddle box area or from a hit that was pulled and the sheet metal cracked from the pull .
but I have never crack any 944 fire walls nor has any of the guys that have work for me when we have had a 944 on my celette frame benches in the body shop .
when you look at the stock 944 chassis going thru pitch , roll and yaw in the chassis design program we have the amount of force it takes to flex the front part of the chassis is quite high .
if you were running a full slick tire of a much wider than stock with a full race suspension (not just adding shocks and springs ) then you will see some flex to the chassis of any significance .
but if you are seeing any then and running a full slick tire and suspension you dam well should also have a full roll cage .

if your into adding things like that it's fine with me !

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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  xschop on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:16 pm

There are a ton of threads on this forum alone with cracked firewalls near the fenderwell especially

I've welded a few myself over the years and always attributed it to frame flex. Stick in a huge-torque V8 an see if the Porsche body workers were on the sauce that day.
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  skywalker01 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:07 am

I happen to be one of those with a cracked firewall and 2 cracked bellhousings.
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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  xschop on Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:04 pm

Not taking any chances with my latest 928-LS hybrid.... getting a mega strong tower brace.....




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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  944convert on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:34 am

All the worries I've read about 944 firewall reinforcement seems due to heavy pedal pressures on big clutch set ups and/or non-boosted brakes...even with a tower brace.

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Re: A-Arm Brace

Post  962porsche on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:11 pm

I have built so many fire wall plates for the reason of the peddles both for 4 cylinder cars and V8 swaps .
this was one reason I installed the 944 into my chassis program just to see what force loads are doing to the chassis . the other reason is when I designed the cage I wanted to see the best places to mount the cage as to make the chassis a ridged as possible .
the 944 chassis can handle over 600 lbs of torques with no problem and much more if you add in a bellhousing support .
when you removed the old 944 motor you will find the motor is balanced in the car on it's motor mounts . you can remove the torque tube and the motor will sit on the mounts all by it's self .
you don't find this with the V8 motors what you will find is the motor will fall right off the motor mounts back 1st . this is because the motor is not balanced on it's motor mounts . after the 2nd V8 swap I did I started to always add in a bellhousing mount also . the bellhousing mount to the fire wall was a great help in many ways . it 1st took all the load off the mounting bolts to the bellhousing from the torque tube I did brake the bellhousing on my 1st race only 944 V8 .
then it also give two places that the torque from the motor will transmit it to the chassis .
3rd I found it makes your clutch last longer . my guess is the force of the back of the motor always hanging on the output shaft and mounting bolts will tend to give a slight flex in that area were the clutch is .
4th I also make the peddle plate part of the bellhousing mounts as all one piece so it kills two birds with one stone .

are braces a bad thing ?hell no ! they are just not really needed for this chassis .
if your racing your car then you want to find the balance of weight to power .
what I found is if I add in the bracing upper strut tower and lower cross brace is the car does not feel a bit different and it does nothing at all in giving you a faster lap time .
i tested this 3 times at the track once in the rain and twice in the dry one cold day one hot day .
nothing where were no changes all 4 of us drivers of the car said the same thing leave the braces off to save the weight .
the tires we run are DOT R6 hoosier even a full slick in this size give's the same feeling and no faster lap time .

all and all the 944's chassis is a very good chassis it's over built for the 4 cylinder the car comes with and handles the power of the average V8 ez even for a race only car . my SBC 948 puts out just over 400 hp and tork . we run the 8v trans for many races every year with out any trouble and have not had any brake downs at the track . we don't have chassis flex and have taken FTD at a hand full of event .
so IMO bracing is kind of useless if we are winning now I would not want to just start add un needed things at the car .



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