HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Juddering 1st Gear

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Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Sat May 25, 2013 1:32 pm

Okay guys, 87-944s and I have been talking about this alot and I guess I'll open it up to the rest of you. Since putting in the new Sachs clutch over the winter and replacing the transmission to a 5R with LSD, I have been experiencing some major judder/shudder (looks like engine wants to jump out of bay) when starting out in 1st, but I can start out in 2nd no problem. When the car is running, I can shift fine without and problems/juddering.
Have a ProSolo (cross between drag race and autocross) event on the 7th and I'd like to be able to use 1st but really don't feel like dropping the rear transmission/TT again (for the 4th time). If this is something that will work itself out, I can live with it, but I'd like a 3rd ......... 56th opinion on what may be going on.
Anyone have any experience with this?
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  v8carreragts on Sat May 25, 2013 6:27 pm

My guess is the disc isn't sliding on the splines smoothly and the higher multiplication in 1st accentuates it. Or the flywheel surface isn't totally flat--heat spots-- these usually are hard spots caused by a slipping disc over time and the only way to get rid of these is to bake the flywheel and re-grind it. But I would think it is the splines.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  thom on Sat May 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Agree, it's seems like a problem with mating surface problem. Was the new pressure plate cleaned of shipping oil or cosmoline before installing it? Could be contaminating the disc. As also stated, possible heat spotted flywheel from previous damage. If you have a 2 piece bellhousing, maybe you could have someone depress the clutch and then spray some brake clean on the pressure plate to try and clean any residue on it without taking it apart first.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Sat May 25, 2013 8:39 pm

Okay gents - looks like I'll drop the transmission (again) and see what is going on. Don't need to experience a critical failure at this event. Thanks for the input.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  acorad on Sat May 25, 2013 11:02 pm

My teflon clutch does the exact same thing. I've been dealing with it (very annoying) for over a year. Anthro suggested the std oem gm clutch as it's been smooth as silk for him, and I got one and will install it soon.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Sun May 26, 2013 7:03 am

Well I am going to take everything down and take a look at the flywheel and pressure plate. I hate having to drain the brake fluid and having to deal with all of that fluid nastiness. Then there are the upper bellhousing bolts that are next to impossible to get a wrench on!
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  marc a on Sun May 26, 2013 9:07 am

Remember to use molybdenum based (CV) grease on the splines of the drive shaft when everything goes back to together.

Sorry to hear you are having the problem.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  Arthropraxis on Sun May 26, 2013 12:00 pm

acorad wrote:My teflon clutch does the exact same thing. I've been dealing with it (very annoying) for over a year. Anthro suggested the std oem gm clutch as it's been smooth as silk for him, and I got one and will install it soon.

I installed a LS7 clutch and FW with a sachs disc to fit the splines. It works very well and is light enough that I removed the assist spring for the clutch pedal. Some grease on the splines ,as mentioned above, also helps disengage the disc. Were your splines showing any rust on them? If so a light coat of grease helps.

If you have a remote reservoir for the clutch/brake fluid clamp some vice grips on the soft tube going to the MC then you won't loose much fluid at all. Another technique that helps with bleeding the line: if you have a remote bleeder line, open the bleed valve and submerge it in the reservoir then pump the pedal until it feels firm then close the valve. This technique takes maybe 5-10 pumps of the pedal and it will be completely bled. YMMV
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Sun May 26, 2013 7:39 pm

Okay -got the transmission and everything dropped in record time. Here are photos of the various parts - most of which look pretty good, except for my passenger side motor mount which is looking pretty shady.

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Judder

Post  fliermike45 on Sun May 26, 2013 8:21 pm

I have the same problem if I try to slip the clutch (Standing start) in second gear. If I engage the clutch before adding gas (rolling stop) I can accelerate without judder. I have a stock GM flywheel/pressure plate with a Las Vegas (RH) clutch plate. My rear transmission mount is an xschop type.
When it judders it seems like the transmission is juddering but I'm not sure.
First gear takoffs are fine.

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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  944-LT1 on Mon May 27, 2013 12:38 am

Mine did this as well. Then found that the motor mount uprights were loose.

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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Mon May 27, 2013 7:50 am

That was the first thing that I checked and found the driver's side upright loose. Now that the TT was disconnected I could get see more motion on the engine. The Energy Suspension mount on the driver's side is looking like it is separating from the metal. I am going to put the TT back in and hook the engine lift up and remove the uprights and mounts today.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  948 on Tue May 28, 2013 8:09 am

Your FW shows evidence of chattering, which is what you described i think. That combined with a loose or deteriorating motor mount could make for a lot of chattering.
People often forget that this drive line, with its really long input shaft, was meant to have a dual mass FW to help dampen this sort of thing.
My conversion chatters in first, though it took several months for the phenomenon to manifest. It does not chatter in second.
Also my B6 Audi, which I converted to a SMF from DMF, now chatters in first.....though not nearly as much as the 944.
Fix the mount and resurface the FW and you should reduce the presence of this phenomenon temporarily.
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Tue May 28, 2013 3:12 pm

Just put in an order for Admins' bulletproof uprights and mounts. Hopefully they'll get here by the weekend so I can try them out properly. Twisted Evil
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Wed May 29, 2013 7:34 pm

Texas Performance Concepts engine uprights and mounts made it in today. I am quite pleased with the quality of the workmanship. Only had enough time to swap out the passenger side setup (had to make a hardware run to replace the recessed allen screws that came with the RH kit). The RH upright that I removed looked 'okay', but the bolt and the surrounding steel that makes the base of the mount looked slightly bent. I would highly suggest to anyone who got the RH kit that you should inspect your uprights!
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Re: Juddering 1st Gear

Post  skywalker01 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:38 am

Looks like the replacement of the motor mounts did the trick! No more juddering (I think it's shuddering)!! Mucho thanks to Eric and Texas Performance Concepts for getting them to me without a whole bunch of drama and extra cost!
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