HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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944 LS Swap Headers

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944 LS Swap Headers

Post  __Z__ on Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:47 pm

Alright, so I know who everyone typically goes to to buy the conversion headers. However, has anyone found any sets that can be easily modified to work other than the hooker 2312 headers?

Im planning on doing a LQ4 swap (motor build is currently in progress) and was wondering if anyones has give gto ls2 shorties a shot?

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or perhaps c5 shorties?

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Basically I want something that will flow better and has a 3" collector.

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Admin on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:16 pm

As it has been said a thousand times, Unless you build your own there is no off the shelf headers that will work without modification. Shocked

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  docwyte on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:08 am

Look up the answer I gave you on your same thread on Rennlist.

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  xschop on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:15 am

I wish these were around when I did my swap....Bottom left hand of page....

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  cjbcpa on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:53 am

What are the pluses and minuses of these versus the headers, also on that page?
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  watsondk on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:02 am

Positives:

Cheaper-far less welding and fabrication and simplar jigs to setup the manifolds
Less heat rejection-if you are thinking about running a rear-mount turbo this will help keep exhaust temp and velocity up. Has anyone done a rear-mount turbo 948?
Probably fewer headaches trying to install if you install with engine in the car

Disadvantages:

Have you noticed how much effort goes into designing and building an intake manifold and how all the runners are the same length (usually). Two big reasons; something called Helmholtz tuning and pressure equalization. Essentially an intake or exhaust runner has a resonant frequency (and associated node frequencies) for a given diameter and length. Skipping a bunch of differential equations and such you can select a frequency (rpm) you want torque and tune the intake and exhaust primaries to match.

What happens is the air inside the tubes acts like the childhood toy "slinky" with compression and rarefaction segments as the air bounces off the engine valves on one side and an imaginary wall at the free end of the primary. At the resonant frequencie and its multiples (0.5x, 1x, 1.5x, 2x etc...) a segment of compressed air will hit the intake valves/low pressure area will reach the exhast valves. This pushes air into the engine similar to a turbo/supercharger and sucks the air out of the engine like a vacuum. With proper design (and variable valve timing-helmholtz tuning is a driving factor in vvt) you can acheive several psi of "boost" at certain rpm's.

Helmholtz tuning is then combined with pressure regulation techniques such as a 4-2-1 exhaust header. When a cylinders exhaust valve(s) open high pressure gas enters the exhaust primaries. When this plug of high pressure exhaust reaches a juntion with another primary the pressure in the second primary increases. If this happens as the second primaries exhaust valves are open the exhaust has a high "back pressure" preventing/impeding complete cylinder evacuation. An effective 4-2-1 header combines tuned primaries (for rpm of designers choosing) with exhaust pulses that alternate between the various segments keeping back pressure to a minimum in the primaries with open valves.

"log style" or other "manifolds" don't/can't do this which is why proper long-tube 4-2-1 headers will increase engine output.

Opinion:

That being said, the long tube headers available from tpc are a 4-1 long tube design. Likely much better than the "log/manifold" design for flow but still not the "best". Designing/packaging/fabricating an "ideal" header would be incredibly expensive and would be dependent on intake choice, head design/modifications, and cam choice. (the last 10% improvement can be a real b***h)

If you are concerned about 10-30 rwhp (anyone have an idea on difference?) then the long-tubes are the answer. Plus they look cooler Laughing

Personally, its great that there are multiple options and we should all be thankful of that!!!
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Admin on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:54 am

With all the above said/written......
The headers are built to supply the market what it needs. as far as making a long tube equal length,,,,It's not going to happen around here. I don't have the equipment to make such an item. There has been someone on here that had some long tube headers made, but the cost is up there! The fitment also leaves something to be desired. And no one has proved that they make any more power than my headers or RH's for that matter.
The tubular manifolds were designed to fill another void in the market. They were designed after the GM factory GTO manifolds. The dimensions are very similar, they just fit our cars. Also I have these on a car that has a 5.3lt V8 in it, The car runs really well and pull supper strong. I have had a couple of people from the forum stop by and they have taken rides in the car, I don't think any of them were disappointed. Cool

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  cjbcpa on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:34 am

Thanks for the replies.

I'm slightly familiar with the reasoning behind equal length headers. Knew there was some sort of science behind it but was never schooled so thanks again.

While equal length headers would be a plus, I figured fabricating them to work in our cars would entail just too many compromises to make it worthwhile, which Admin seems to have confirmed.
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  docwyte on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:39 am

Just to be the Devil's Advocate...

The Kooks headers I have fit perfectly. I'm making 400whp with them, or a +27whp gain over what I had before with the same cam, at this point my cam is limiting my power. Granted they are a few hundred more than the TPC long tube headers, but they're gorgeous.


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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  99sierra4x4 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:40 pm

I also bought the headers Doc did, they are amazing looking, but they were pricey.

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Psychoideas on Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:29 am

Very informative, this thread. I thank you all for the information.

Now, I'm new to this v8 idea but am I correct in saying that the steering shaft passes through the headers that are on the left hand side?

If that is true, I'm guessing that they won't fit our right hand drive cars, because of steering shaft interference?

Anyone know of this conversion done in Australia or the UK?

Thanks again,
Frank
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Slow Motion on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:24 pm

My Long tubes are doing great and thanks for all the kind words. We know they have a nice price tag but you do get what you pay for. They will be at VIR Nov 7th for the last Club day for 2013 and Nov16 and 17 th at the Carolina Region PCA HPDE if anyone local enough to the Danville VA wants to come by for a close up look or maybe even a hot lap ride on VIR's full track just let me know. Come and see these in person and maybe take a ride in the beast we fondly call "White Trash the PoorVette"
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  DrBoost on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:36 pm

xschop wrote:I wish these were around when I did my swap....Bottom left hand of page....

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These are direct bolt-on headers for the LS 944 swap?

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Slow Motion on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 pm

Yes. cam measured and cad designed for one use, LS 944 951 968.

Will be at Roebling Road in southern Georgia on Dec 7 and 8 2013 at another PCA event if you would like to see them in person. Plenty of sets available now.
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:05 am

Based on the quote, Yes these are direct bolt in for the LS swap. I designed these fit with my conversion parts as an easy solution to a semi-difficult problem,.

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  DrBoost on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:49 am

Thanks slow-mo and Admin. I didn't want to seem like an idiot, but that wouldn't have been the first time I spend money on something after not having read the description fully.
What kind of coating is that, high-temp paint? I was thinking about ceramic coating, could these be ordered naked, or ceramic coated?

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:21 am

You can get mine in bare metal or ceramic coating. I think Slowmo's are all stainless.

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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Slow Motion on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:08 pm

Mine are 1-7/8 stainless long tube with 3 inch collectors with the long spindle inside to smooth out exhaust flow. My friends at Jet Hot Coating do an outstanding job if you want them or anything else coated.

Just for clarification mine are the only ones you will see if you meet me at any of the track events I send the invites to. Dec 7-8 2013 I will be at Roebling Road at another PCA event and will have sets with me. If anyone has any questions you will need to post as I still don't have access to PM. Thanks to all for all the great support.
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  Slow Motion on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:31 pm

Admin wrote:. There has been someone on here that had some long tube headers made, but the cost is up there! The fitment also leaves something to be desired. And no one has proved that they make any more power than my headers or RH's for that matter
Cool
Just saw this post and was kind of disappointed. The only fit it issue that has been brought to my attention was from someone not using Eric's spacers and modified them to use v-bands which were close too close to the floor. There were designed for use with Admins conversion parts and work great with them. I also offer a 100% money back guarantee if not satisfied and out of all that have been sold non have been returned. The v-band modified set if I am not mistaken was for sale or has been sold.

As for creating more power, I will gladly send a set to an independent dyno if the looser agree to pay for the dyno time. There are several to choose from in race city Mooresville NC that do tons of LS tuning.
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Re: 944 LS Swap Headers

Post  XtaC on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:31 pm

Hi Frank, I got your PM, but don't have the post count to respond.

Just looking at the engine bolted into my RHD 951, I REALLY think your'd be pushing shite uphill to find a set of off the shelf pipes that will fit our cars.

I got a quote from CES in Brisbane (who do spectacular work; they did a set of extractors for my 290cui Cortina stroker motor), and they were in the $4-5k range for the pipes alone.

I'm almost certainly going to make my own set, probably with the aid of these:

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and a vertical bandsaw.  It will be a bit pricey, but I figure I can recoup the costs by making pipes for other/different cars.


Psychoideas wrote:Very informative, this thread. I thank you all for the information.

Now, I'm new to this v8 idea but am I correct in saying that the steering shaft passes through the headers that are on the left hand side?

If that is true, I'm guessing that they won't fit our right hand drive cars, because of steering shaft interference?

Anyone know of this conversion done in Australia or the UK?

Thanks again,
Frank

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