HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by Luke714 on Tue May 07, 2013 6:15 am

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is the best one on the ABS electric setup that I could find. I'm running manual steering, so I don't really want to put the PS pump back in to do hydroboost. After reading the above I'm not sure how I feel about the ABSbrake setup. Which unit did you guys use and does anyone have more details on the system as it would sit in one of our cars?

Thanks,

Luke
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by rdanford on Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm

I think the part number is 10-59 but TPC would know for sure as they completed my swap. Its a great system when working, but after 2 years I had to send the pump back for a rebuild. After getting the pump back from ABS Power it appears to be an updated pump, not rebuilt. I've got 300-400 miles on it since it was rebuilt and have no issues.
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Tue May 07, 2013 12:42 pm


If you want to 'break new ground' may want to research:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-2002-LAND-RANGE-ROVER-ABS-PUMP-418-501-015-0-/230976890284?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D7493947041573630050%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D230976295412%26

The above could probably work as the pump with a hydroboost MC

And this (below) looks like is has 4 ports...dunno...if one is for the electric pump accumulator it might be an alternative master cylinder.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-1995-for-Range-OEm-Brake-Master-Cylinder-nEw-for-Land-Rover-without-ABS-/310645785967?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover&hash=item4853ee856f&vxp=mtr

Also check with Tom Egan (LS968) he uses the ABS Electric Brake setup often (was the first to use them with the 944 cars)

http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/u512contact

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by zeusrotty on Tue May 07, 2013 3:55 pm

It looks like you have done some research on this. have you been able to find out where the pump that comes with the kit is from? Its an OEM maker, so it has to have a car to go to right?

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Tue May 07, 2013 4:57 pm

zeusrotty wrote:Then I'm telling you that this system ain't great.
As I said in the post immediately before your post quoted here.

The pump motor I have is an ATE, which a very large Germany based OEM (for Porsche and many others) company that btw...also makes VDO gauges:

http://www.ate-brakes.com/generator/www/com/en/ate/ate/general/home/index_en.html

Another OEM company that supplies these pumps and motors is WABCO with its headquarters in Brussels, Belgium

http://wabco-auto.com/products_wabco/products_by_category_type/braking/advanced_braking_systems

When anti-lock braking systems first were available on mass produced cars, these companies supplied hundreds of thousands of units like these beginning mostly on luxury model cars... Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln Town Cars...also Alfa-Romero, SAAB, Pontiac 6000 STE, 88-90 Riviera and Reatta, yada, yada

The accumulator (bomb) is a Hydac unit which is also located in Germany, actually not far from Stuttgart. It is rated at 3000 psi (210 bar) and charged with 1000 psi of dry nitrogen gas.

So yeah, I did my homework.


Last edited by 944convert on Wed May 08, 2013 5:15 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by zeusrotty on Tue May 07, 2013 6:16 pm

Yeah, my thought was that if I could find what the pump they used was from, I could figure out where I can get a replacement, or a rebuild kit to rebuild it myself. Honestly, if I could get rid of this big honking master cylinder I would like to do that also at some point. the aluminum material they used seems to be degrading somehow.

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Tue May 07, 2013 7:06 pm

I took my ABS electric pump motor and disconnected it from the pump unit…(not a good idea…took me over an hour putting it back together to where it would spin freely and work properly...so I wouldn’t recommend it). It looks to me that the pump unit is simple but needs special tools to be completely disassembled as it appears to be ‘pressed’ together…and probably not meant to be ‘rebuilt’.
btw…everything appeared brand new/unused.

Per many forums involving cars that have the factory units, no unusual complaints. These folks know they have had 20+ years of usage and most common problem was a needed replacement of the ‘bomb’, which after 20 years would be understandable. Another problem noted was a leaking pressure switch, but again after 20…no surprise. We probably need a way to monitor if the motor is running too much because of a bad pressure switch, accumulator or a leaking component .

Remember, these boosters/master cylinders were in production cars with mountings designed for these units. We are trying to adapt them (including the hydroboost units) to the 944

I’m going to be using the original booster mount (the ‘cereal bowl’ with the 12 degree angle… and slicing a very small amount from it to allow clearance for the LS head) with an adapter plate to mount the ABS Electric unit’s master cylinder and extending the rod to the brake pedal.

btw…aluminum oxidizes and dulls naturally and needs to be protected with either a clear coat or regular care products...and the hydroboost unit is also a big honking piece.

Why not go the same route as Royce?


Last edited by 944convert on Sat May 11, 2013 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by Admin on Tue May 07, 2013 8:50 pm

You can use this
Electric power steering pump

There are a ton of videos on line about people using them for hydro boost systems and power steering at the same time.
They are used in Mini Coopers, Toyota's, Fords and a ton of other factory setups and work fine.

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Tue May 07, 2013 9:07 pm

cooool...are you going to be using this solution ?

Does it have an accumulator to allow some normal braking if the pump fails?


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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by Luke714 on Wed May 08, 2013 7:09 am

Wow, I really like the electric PS pump solution. I'm just starting research on all of this, and won't be buying anything for a couple of months. First, I think I need to research and fully understand how ABS brake systems work. I didn't realize that the pump from ABSbrakes (brand) was a pump for an ABS system. Clearly I need to learn more. I'll post up what I decide on once I've done that.

Cheers,

Luke
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Wed May 08, 2013 5:05 pm

Luke714 wrote: I didn't realize that the pump from ABSbrakes (brand) was a pump for an ABS system.

Just to be clear...this setup does not require your car to be equipped with an anti-lock braking system.

Here's variation of the unit in a Buick Turbo Regal...you can see the top of the pressure switch (pump motor shut off) and the accumulator ('bomb') behind the reservoir...I believe the pump motor is under the master cylinder.
[img][/img]

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 87-944S on Wed May 08, 2013 7:05 pm

Dang, should have thought of this before I bought my Turn-One pump. My wife's car has one, well, maybe the next project will get one.
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944-LT1 on Wed May 08, 2013 8:10 pm

I think its called a Powermaster. Pretty compact looking just have to remote mount the motor.



ABS's version of it...
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by Luke714 on Thu May 09, 2013 5:30 am

I think I would prefer an OEM setup like that to ABSbrake's system (even though they probably use mostly OEM parts). Still need to read more.

P.S. Yeah, I'm clear that my car doesn't need to be equipped with ABS brakes.

Cheers,

Luke
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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

Post by 944convert on Thu May 09, 2013 6:36 am

944-LT1 wrote:I think its called a Powermaster. Pretty compact looking just have to remote mount the motor.
The black & white image posted I had saved under the name "PowerMaster Electro Hydraulic brake motor.jpg"

And comments from the forum that I copied it from were about the location of the pump motor being too close to the exhaust manifold...so yeah...remote it and maybe replace the motor with a new electric steering pump motor Razz

http://www.geocities.ws/diels12000/Booster/powermaster_ExplodedView.JPG

http://www.geocities.ws/diels12000/Booster/PowermasterInstall.JPG

I just looked here:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_hydraulic-power-brake-booster-with-master-cylinder--remanufactured-cardone_3823261-p?searchTerm=master+cylinder+-+remanufactured

none available...good luck finding any No

too bad I missed this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUICK-GRAND-NATIONAL-TURBO-T-TYPE-GNX-8000-MI-POWERMASTER-FROM-GNX-WOW-/121085818272?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=U%252BYMq2arXSP0ihND1daR6LID3g0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

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Re: Question on the ABS Power Brakes (electric setup)

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