944Hybrids: 924/944/968 and 928 V8 Conversions
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HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Controlling the water temps on the track

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mr965
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Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 Empty Re: Controlling the water temps on the track

Post  Lemming Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:59 am

Here's the setup that I will be testing on the 14th and 15th at Barber. The oil cooler in front is half the size of the old cooler and not placed against the radiator, there's at least 1.5" to 2.0" inches between the two. I've also added inlets in the fiberglass bumper and everything inside is ducted. I still have to add wire mesh to protect everything and I'm ready to test.


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Post  docwyte Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:02 am

I've been debating cutting holes in my bumper like yours. I hit Pueblo Motorsports Park this weekend, we'll see how the Ron Davis radiator works out. If things are still getting hot, then I'll start cutting holes.

The thin air due to the altitude I'm at isn't doing me any favors...

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Post  Lemming Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:24 am

Ran the car at Barber Motorsports Park this weekend, car ran great. With the new setup, my water temps never went over 210, oil was at 205, and trans was 185. Air temp was in the low to mid 90's and track temp on Saturday was 135.
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Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 Empty Re: Controlling the water temps on the track

Post  docwyte Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:02 am

Time for me to open up the front end of my car then. I don't anywhere near the open frontal area that you do. My temps were easily 20 degrees higher on water vs yours...

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Post  948 Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:49 pm

docwyte wrote:Time for me to open up the front end of my car then. I don't anywhere near the open frontal area that you do. My temps were easily 20 degrees higher on water vs yours...
Doc,
Do you have the plastic insert that seals the top of the radiator?
Also, I would close off the intercooler ducts first, that would help decrease the pressure behind the radiator.
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Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 Empty Re: Controlling the water temps on the track

Post  docwyte Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:34 am

Yes, I have all the ducting in place. I may do that as well, but I think I need to open up the license plate area of the bumper first.

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Post  948 Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:52 am

docwyte wrote:Yes, I have all the ducting in place. I may do that as well, but I think I need to open up the license plate area of the bumper first.
Doc, another question..... with the oe radiator there are clips to hold the plastic insert against the radiator, do you still have this feature with the RD radiator? If not air will push that insert up and air will bypass the radiator; i made a bracket and used an UHB tape on my setup.
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Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 Empty Re: Controlling the water temps on the track

Post  docwyte Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:06 am

Not sure, I'll have to check.

While I'm sure that will help, I can't imagine it'll make a substantial difference in track water temps. Long story short, I need to open up the front end to get more air into the radiator.

I suspect the reason why my water temps are so much higher is the other guys are running a 944 front bumper that they've opened up more, don't have an AC condenser and aren't up at altitude.

I can't do anything about the last two things, but I can do something about the first one...

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Post  948 Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:44 am

docwyte wrote:I can't imagine it'll make a substantial difference in track water temps. Long story short, I need to open up the front end to get more air into the radiator...
You can never have enough cooling, i agree.
Regarding the insert: Though it may not be enough improvement in cooling having that area sealed will make a difference. If, thats if, your insert is opening up, which it will at speed if it is not anchored down, it will create an area of about 40 sq inches for air to bypass your radiator. That is about the same area you will gain by cutting a few holes in the bumper.....it is worth the effort to make sure it is functioning correctly.

Regarding the AC condenser: griffiths sells a serpentine, plate type, condenser which has much less flow restriction Vs the oe tube type.....to save $ you could purchase a universal serpentine type and adapt it to your car like i did.
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Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 Empty Re: Controlling the water temps on the track

Post  rooster Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 am

Sorry to revive an old thread but I have a question. I just finished my first track day yesteday and the car ran great, no serious issues. I was taking it easy and the ambient temp was only 77 deg. and I was hitting about 225 on the water temp. I know this is lower then Doc sees so maybe I should be glad their not higher. Oil never got above 240. I will not be able to see how it responds to 95 deg plus until next spring.

Here is my question - am I better off blocking off the intercoller port in the bumber (951) to keep the pressure behind the radiator down, or figuring out a way to take advantage of the intercoller opening and make an aluminum duct that will channel that air into the top of the radiator? If I removed the black plastic piece that originally sectioned off that area I could channel air to the top of the rad perhaps. Has anyone done this? Or is the potential airflow increase not great enough for the effort? I am hoping I can do a few simple (cheap) things to keep the temp in check for one more track day this year. If I need a new rad, I'll tackle that this winter.

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Post  Rich L. Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:09 pm

I'm just back from 2 days on track in eastern Oregon. We had 85-90 degree ambient temps which were a good test of my new cooling setup. The conclusion: Insufficient! I was seeing 220+ F with a new Wizard radiator that I got from Lindsey Racing, about the biggest core you can get in there without chassis mods. I'm pretty disappointed and have to conclude that mounting the Z06 oil cooler in front of the radiator is not okay.

As for your setup, Rooster, you may have the same issue as Lemming and myself of the oil cooler blocking too much of the airflow to the radiator. Perhaps directing the bumper slot in there would help. Perhaps venting your hood would help. Lemming has his setup working well now, check-out his posts.

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Post  rooster Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:36 pm

Thanks for the feedback Rich. I may try moving my oil cooler before I try anything else. It's about the same size as Lemmings but its in front of the radiator. Maybe if I move it up to the intercooler location I'll free up some capacity from the rad. I have left over braided hose, so for now that the cheapest option I have. I only plan to run one more track day this year so I'm in no real hurry to blow $500 on a new radiator just yet. I'll post my results.


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Post  marc a Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:31 pm

I'm using the Wizard radiator now, but the RH radiator behaved the same way before splitting. The key here is to completely seal the sides, top and bottom so all of the air goes through the radiator. I was at VIR last month . . . 98 degrees, track was scorching. It never went higher than 220. Oil temp 240. I have an oil cooler in front of the radiator hanging from the bumper.

I used a Tuffy garbage can and went from one side, under the radiator and then to the other side. Used neoprene clip on molding from McMaster Carr to seal the ends against the bumper cover. The inlet for the intercooler is sealed at the top of the radiator so the air goes through the radiator rather than into the engine bay.

Finally the fan is on a manual switch. You don't want the fan coming on when you are driving at speed since that impedes flow.

Hope this helps.

Marc
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Post  rooster Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:12 am

Marc, thanks for the info I'd like to copy what you have done and see if I can make it work for me too. I think I understand what you've done from your description but a few pics wouldn't hurt. Can you post some please?

Regarding the fans - are you running VSS? I'm am and I thought VSS was supposed to tell the PCM that the car was going over 35 mph and therefore turn off the fans and not impede airflow. Can someone confirm this?


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Post  Diyman25 Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:14 am

AM i the only think the porsche 944/968 front opening is way too small????

I know the important of building a correct duct and seal the underpan

but on my 93 MAZDA RX-7 i over heat the car around 2 laps.. at laguna seca..

but a year later i change to different bumper cover with much large opening... my over heat temp issue

is gone. now i can go 10-15 laps without worry of my water temp


Controlling the water temps on the track - Page 3 T_a4


at track ever thing should help... more air in no mater is high pressure or low pressure should cool bettter ,and extract air out from hood will help for sure


i am worry about my ls1 968 wont last long at track with stock bumper... cause the opening is pretty small even compare to 944.........

this is not might be every one's cup of tea but with such large opening area... i think most of our cooling issue will be solve

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Post  marc a Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:31 pm

rooster wrote:Marc, thanks for the info I'd like to copy what you have done and see if I can make it work for me too. I think I understand what you've done from your description but a few pics wouldn't hurt. Can you post some please?

Regarding the fans - are you running VSS? I'm am and I thought VSS was supposed to tell the PCM that the car was going over 35 mph and therefore turn off the fans and not impede airflow. Can someone confirm this?

I'll try to get some up tonight, just got back from The Glen. The temps this weekend were in the low 70s and the water barely hit 190.

Sorry can't help with the VSS issue since I never connected the fan to the PCM.

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Post  Rich L. Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:40 pm

Same here, still using the 944 thermo switch and fan wiring. But I think you're right that the VSS and PCM won't run the fans at speed if you wire them up.

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Post  marc a Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:00 pm

Here are pictures. Sorry, it's not easy getting the inside of the nose.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102059909841735131107/RadiatorCowling

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Post  87-944S Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:04 pm

Yep, default GM ECM setting is to turn off the fans at 35MPH.
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Post  rooster Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:08 pm

Thanks for the pictures Marc, that helps. Last weekend I made a duct to funnel air from the interrcooler port into the radiator. I've got a 951 and I've got the lower pans in place so I'm not sure I can do what you did with the plastic unless I get rid of them. I've got a track day next Wednesday, we'll see if the new ducting helps any.

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Post  Diyman25 Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:51 pm

Finally my custom set up is almost finish

look a bit rough now.. will do some track testing when i finish my valve spring swap

but will clean up a detail after this


move inlet and out let to passanger side of radiator, which is the right side i believe Wink ha

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Post  docwyte Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:59 am

Revisiting this topic, I now have a SLP low temp thermostat, Evans Cooling water pump, have cut openings in the front of my turbo front bumper cover had have solidly mounted the RH/RD radiator. Fans are controlled through the PCM, with over run and turning off at speed.

Water temps are 10 degrees cooler when cruising around now, haven't been able to hit the track yet.

After talking to the local AI/CMC guys and hearing they were seeing the same water temps as me, I feel a little better about the temps I was seeing.

At this point I've done pretty much all I can, with the exception of venting the hood...

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Post  Lemming Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:41 pm

When I find the time, I'm going to start logging (traqmate) my water and oil temps as well as oil pressure while on track. Just need to find a time to wire everything up.
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Post  Rich L. Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:46 pm

My new setup with hood vents worked great last weekend. Oil temps topped out around 220 F and water temps never exceeded 175 F. This under sustained hard lapping with ambient temps in the mid 60s F at 2300 ft of elevation.
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Post  docwyte Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:38 pm

Where did you put the hood vents Rich?

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