HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

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Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  Dawgz83948 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:40 pm

acorad wrote:
Dawgz83948 wrote:I think it is wrong. I need to look at the Service manual again to be sure.
Let me know what you find out, if the NA really is an 0.78 I'll feel even better about finding the 0.68!

Sorry I was thinking of the S2 5th which is .78. .73 is the standard N/A ratio.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:03 pm

.73 is the standard N/A ratio.
Coolio.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:59 pm

So I'm getting ready to dig into my clutch, I've never done it before. I have the 2 piece bell housing and the TT with the ears on it.

Can I detach the adapter plate from the bell housing and just slide the TT back enough to get the clutch out? I don't need to drop the torsion bar/rear suspension or anything crazy like that, do I?
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  xschop on Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:21 pm

You'll have to drop the trans out, then move the entire torque tube aftwards by 6 inches after you clock it 90 degrees....fun
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:00 pm

Thanks Xschop, the trans it out and I already swapped in the extra tall 5th gear set.

I clocked the TT 90 and pushed it back and the front of the drive shaft is free of the clutch. The spines and tip of the drive shaft look to be in great shape.

The reason I'm pulling the clutch is because it chatters like a beeooch in 1st gear, and if you remember I also have a vibration issue at about 3000 rpm.

The clutch is a Spec Stage 2 kevlar, the FW is a lightweight Fidanza, and the pressure plate is (Spec, I believe) heavy duty.

The vibration occurs at about 3000 rpm whether the clutch is in or out, in gear or not, and whether the car is moving or stationary or any combination of those, and I was worried that the front of the drive shaft was not properly engaging the pilot bearing.

That does not seem to be the case.

However, after I take the clutch off I'll bolt everything back together to double check that the tip is fully seated in the pilot bearing and also that the RH adapter plate has the drive shaft centered correctly as you suggested a couple weeks ago.

I've unbolted the RH adapter from the BH which has given me some room between the TO bearing and the springs of the clutch cover.

To remove the clutch I just unbolt the clutch cover from the flywheel? Do I need to pull the starter off too?

Sorry for the basic questions...
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  docwyte on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:19 pm

Bet you the clutch isn't balanced. With the spec setups if you don't use their whole package of flywheel, clutch and pressure plate they recommend getting all three balanced at a machine shop. You can keep your fidanza flywheel, but tale it, the clutch disc and the pressure plate and have them balanced before you reinstall them.

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:06 pm

Thanks doc. Do you think the FW is what's causing the chatter? I had called Spec about this a few weeks ago and they wanted me to call back when the clutch was out.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  docwyte on Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:34 pm

Hard to say, but it might be. Lots of lightweight flywheels chatter and make noise at idle.

If you're letting the clutch out and getting a shudder through the drivetrain that's different. Is that what's happening?

I can tell you I have the full Spec stage 2 setup in my car with the Spec aluminum lightweight flywheel and it's silent, with no vibration, shudder on clutch let off and there's no chatter. I probably have 3-4000 miles on it now, with an entire race season and it's fine.

My suspicion is your set up is out of balance. Spec recommends balancing everything together, even if you use the stock LS flywheel before you install it...

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:25 am

docwyte wrote:If you're letting the clutch out and getting a shudder through the drivetrain that's different. Is that what's happening?
Ya, that's what's happening.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  xschop on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:55 am

From Fidanza....

3. SHOULD I BALANCE MY NEW FLYWHEEL? – Since our product is CNC machined they are incredibly accurate. We do however recommend that you balance your new flywheel along with your new clutch pressure plate. This should be done by a reputable and competent machine shop.

6. CAN MY FLYWHEEL CAUSE CLUTCH CHATTER? – Yes but it is only possible if the clutch has extreme heat damage due to excessive slipping of the clutch. The type of clutch disc material used causes most clutch chatter. The more abrasive and “grabby” the material the more chatter you will have.

I installed my Fidanza FW with a factory GM PP from the beggining with no issues. Then recently with the Centerforce PP with no issues. Both times I didn't have the set balanced either. I did notice that the FW surface looked almost brand new after 25K hard miles. I believe they use a hardened sintered metal material on the faces and harder metals against harder substrate causes more squeeling and chatter. Go with an organic compound and see what happens.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:54 pm

doc and Xschop, what motor mounts are you using?
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Well. well, well.

My clutch doesn't seem to have any manufacturer's labels on it, but the pressure plate cover is bright yellow.

Oddly, I was told the clutch is a SPEC Stage 2, but all the SPEC PP covers I see on the intertubes are bright blue.

However I see that all the ACT PP covers are bright yellow, so I assume this clutch is ACT not SPEC.

Also, I don't know how to identify the FW, maybe it's not Fidanza at all...

Anyway, back to my chattering/shuddering clutch issue.

The FW and PP both have a largish discolored spot, I assume due to excessive heat at those spots.

Discolored spot on FW is at 6:30 in this pic:

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Discolored spot on PP at 10:00 in this pic:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Although I didn't mark the PP and FW relative to each other before I detached the PP, so I don't know for 100% sure how the two discolored spots physically relate to each other, but looking at the bolt/pin pattern I'm pretty sure the two discolored spots occurred directly opposite of each other.

Seems to me the PP and FW were not parallel to each other, such that the disk got "pinched" between the PP & FW at the discolored spots.

Does that sound right?

If so, how does that happen?

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:09 pm

High spot or improperly torqued PP/flywheel?
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  docwyte on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 pm

Spec recommends balancing the whole assembly if you don't use all their stuff. Check your clutch disc for wear and hot spots. If it looks good, get your flywheel resurfaced and then balance everything before reinstalling it.

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  docwyte on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:55 pm

Looks like you have a hot spot. Resurface the flywheel and go from there. What material does the clutch look like it's made from.

I have Eric's new style motor mounts, but I ran his old style ones for awhile.

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:45 pm

Thanks guys. I found the name "Valeo" stamped on the pressure plate cover. Looks like they are a huge clutch company. Definitely not a SPEC or ACT clutch.

And the FW is aluminum, but it does not seem to be Fidanza.

(Fidanza has a screwed-on replaceable FW surface, mine is riveted. Also, from looking at their website, Fidanza has dowels protruding from the FW that lock into the pressure plate, mine has dowels in the PP that lock into the FW.)

The discolored hot spot on the FW is definitely a "high spot" it's higher than the surrounding material.

Also, I wanted to make sure my adaptor plate aligns the driveshaft with the pilot bearing correctly, so I bolted everything up (except no trans) to see how well the driveshaft end meets the pilot bearing.

I didn't insert the driveshaft into the pilot bearing, I just slid the DS forward to the face of the pilot bearing to see where it naturally aligns.

It looks like the driveshaft comes in a few .001's low. (The misalignment looks a little bigger in the pic than it does in real life).

The back of the engine hangs down a little on the motor mounts, so if I have the TT loose on the adapter plate and if I push up on the back of the engine, the driveshaft end slides right into the pilot bearing.

Is this alignment a problem?

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Last edited by acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:29 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:52 pm

doc, here's the disk, can you tell what the material is? I can't...[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  robstah on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:04 pm

CM on the rivets wouldn't be clutchmasters, would it?

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:14 pm

Dunno, the pressure plate cover has "Valeo" stamped on it.

I just checked and the disk doesn't really look like anything on the Clutchmasters website, but I also don't know how old this clutch is so maybe things have changed. And the disk has a "V" paint-stamped onto it. Also, all the CM pp covers on their website are white, this one's bright yellow...


Last edited by acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  spence on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:28 pm

I wonder if that miss-alignment would be enough to cause the chatter you experienced? Looks like that shaft tip isn't fully inserted too.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Spence, fwiw, the shaft tip isn't inserted at all. I just wanted to see where it aligned naturally w/o me forcing anything.
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:06 pm

Funny thing is I called SPEC a couple weeks ago and discussed the clutch chatter issue and he (Mike?) said to call him when I had it apart and that it might not even be a SPEC clutch.

Looks like he was right!
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  xschop on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:01 am

178mm and 12.5mm are the plate dims to shaft concentric measurement.

Take a close look at the back side of the disc hub where pilot bearing would hit also. This is an issue on discs that do not have a flat-plane hub.

Also, I have rubber style engine mounts on the front.

Please tell me that is a 15mm I.D. Pilot bearing. If so, is the drive-shaft tip still 15mm dia. (aka not friction worn)?
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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  docwyte on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:34 am

Looks like an organic material, but it's hard to say...

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Re: Car lift installed, now the real work will begin.

Post  acorad on Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:15 pm

Thanks all.

I think I'm good with the shaft tip/pilot bearing alignment.

Simply pressing upward with a finger with a few pounds of pressure on the shaft tip moves it up a couple .001's and aligns it with the pilot bearing perfectly. A few pounds more pressure and the shift tip is slightly above perfect alignment to the pb.

I think the apparent mis-aligment was just due to gravity and slop in the TT.

The shaft tip mics out to 14.7mm and the ID of the bearing mics to 14.9mm, is that ok?

The pilot bearing was contacting the back side of the disk hub, the back of the hub is slightly worn where it was being contacted by the pb. However, I don't know what that means...is this good or bad?
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