HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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AUTO CONVERSION

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AUTO CONVERSION

Post  headstrong2740 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:41 pm

Ok guys so i have decided that I am going to be doing the V8 swap and will more than likely go with a 5.3L V8.

I have a 87 924S w/ automatic trans. The question I have is how well has the auto held up with the V8 and how much different is doing the V8 swap with the auto box? Like what parts would i need or not need?

Dont get me wrong the manual conversion will take place a little down the road but for now if i can avoid it that would be nice.

The motor i have in it now is the stock 2.5L and was just recently rebuilt (all new gaskets and timing and front seals.. etc etc) at the end of august and has only been driven about 500 miles at most. If you know anyone who needs a motor let me know... It will come with all new injectors as well as the fuel press regulators and diaphrams... Dont worry ill be posting it up for sale in the FOR SALE thread when the time comes but just throwing the word out that it will be available here shortly.... sorry not an official for sale thread since this is NOT THE FOR SALE thread.

Let me know what you guys think or know about the auto setup.... im shopping around right now for 5.3L motors as well as the parts needed for the conversion. Just shocked by the price of some of the parts... oh well it will be a fun project Very Happy

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  Admin on Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:11 pm

What's so shocking about th prices? I just dropped all the prices on my website by about 10%.
I though that was pretty good discount .......

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  944convert on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:55 pm

some info about this is covered in this link:

http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/t1503-auto-trans#16659

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  headstrong2740 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:58 am

Admin wrote:What's so shocking about th prices? I just dropped all the prices on my website by about 10%.
I though that was pretty good discount .......

LOL sorry i was refering to the prices i was seeing on the web by other sellers... mainly what people where wanting on Ebay and a few other places

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  headstrong2740 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:06 am

So it is possible to do the auto conversion but i can see the drive shafts are a bit diff. and will need to use a spacer on the flywheel spacer.

So with that, the C5 Corvett housing and the other items i should be able to hook up to the auto without much issue ... correct?

How much Horse power and torq can the automatic transmission take? And stupid question in 3....2....1

Can the transmission be beefed up a little to ....ya know..... take it better??? (Giggity)


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Post  fliermike45 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:15 pm

.


Last edited by fliermike45 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:56 pm

whats stronger about the manual trans versus the auto ive been running my auto with some serious power for ten years with no problems how many autos you converted to a v8 .ive seen more problems out of manuals than automatics.only advantage i see is the manual has a overdrive .and if i remember right the auto has a more robust bearing support in ring and pinion area the weak point on an auto is the flex plate that bolts to converter and the rubber dampener on engine which i used for 7 years then i switched to a clutch style setup to mate engine with tourqe tube with one of the adapter plates from xshop.the flexplate in the rear that connects driveshaft to tourqe converter can crack around bolt holes .which mine hasnt done yet and probaly wont because i reenforced it when i had my engine out to switch over to clutch setup and was doing a freshen up on tranny which ive never had a problem from.i have an 87 turbo which i will convert sometime in future to ls engine and there are plenty out there.i was going to convert my auto to manual but i think its a better idea to buy one already equipped with a manual .as there are differences such as axles and tourqe tube .
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Post  fliermike45 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:52 pm

.


Last edited by fliermike45 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:44 pm

fliermike45 wrote:I said the Turbo manual was stronger than the auto, shot peened gears and LSD option.

Could you get a turbo with an automatic gearbox????

This guy said he planned a future manual conversion, my opinion is do it now and get it over with.
everyone entitled to their own opinion auto matics dont need shot peened gears as they are a different design than a manual i was looking for facts of how many automatics have broke having been converting to a v8 that you know of .its much easier to start with a car that is already a turbo lsds than converting an auto to manual .i see no facts you listed other than shot peened gears that manual is stronger ive got a healthy dose of early small bock with an auto and ive ran the crap out of it and it still works just fine .i plan on converting to an lsd turbo and just went and bought a whole car that was already equipped.you can put a v8 in a auto car and it works just fine.and it has for quite a long time.i prefer a manual but i paid next to nothing for my auto 944 .made over 100 passes at a local dragstrip drove back and forth to work for several years and it works .as for getting a turbo with an auto 944 i dont think you could but that dont mean its any stronger.why are people converting them to v8s.more power and tourqe.look at the bearings on the ring and pinion on an auto versus manual.their stronger than the manual.i agree with you if you want it a manual do it now but why change all that stuff when its a heck of alot easier to start with a car already equipped.as for being stronger i disagree.the member wants to know if it will work with an auto and be drivable and i say it can and i have proven it lol!
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Post  fliermike45 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:26 pm

.


Last edited by fliermike45 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:46 pm

fliermike45 wrote:OK I let you win, I'm from the UK where automatics are for women and old men, in fact if you take a driving test in an auto you are limited to drive automatics. Real men shift with a clutch pedal.
LAUGHING OUT LOUD
im from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA where we believe in an honest opinion im just stating from my own research im not here to win or lose but to educate and be educated as for driving stick or automatic it isnt about seperating old men and women from real men its about enginering and injenuity from wherever it may come friend
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  948 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:36 pm

The fact is no one has any data with which to determine which is better, stronger, or has better fatigue life etc etc. (With just the material specs and basic shaft and tooth cross sections anyone could work out these details)
Have people used an automatic with a V8? Yes
Have people used a manual with a V8? Yes
Have people broken both types? Yes

I always read about the shot peened input shaft from the "S" manual box and that it is "much better" but I have yet to see any material, heat treat, and or temper specifications. Only with that data can one determine if the "S" input shaft is "much better" or just manufactured differently.

Whatever you decide, start off with a transmission of known origin and condition, or just have it rebuilt.....

IIRC the older auto trans is a mix of 087 and 010 VW/Audi parts. These are found in Audi 5000 NA and Turbo, also in the Vanagon.....you should be able to find plenty of parts.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/mm5/graphics/Catalog-pdf/VW-010.pdf
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaad/Lost%20Knowledge/010_troubleshooting_guide.pdf

BTW, the guts of the auto differential are the same as the 944 Turbo manual boxes.... Cool


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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:24 am

948 wrote:The fact is no one has any data with which to determine which is better, stronger, or has better fatigue life etc etc. (With just the material specs and basic shaft and tooth cross sections anyone could work out these details)
Have people used an automatic with a V8? Yes
Have people used a manual with a V8? Yes
Have people broken both types? Yes

I always read about the shot peened input shaft from the "S" manual box and that it is "much better" but I have yet to see any material, heat treat, and or temper specifications. Only with that data can one determine if the "S" input shaft is "much better" or just manufactured differently.

Whatever you decide, start off with a transmission of known origin and condition, or just have it rebuilt.....

IIRC the older auto trans is a mix of 087 and 010 VW/Audi parts. These are found in Audi 5000 NA and Turbo, also in the Vanagon.....you should be able to find plenty of parts.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/mm5/graphics/Catalog-pdf/VW-010.pdf
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaad/Lost%20Knowledge/010_troubleshooting_guide.pdf

BTW, the guts of the auto differential are the same as the 944 Turbo manual boxes.... Cool


there are differences between auto and man ring and pin they are not the same .gear ratio is different and auto has 3 bearings on shaft which is larger on auto than man r&p which has two bearings .its really about preference and what you have at hand always starting with a rebuilt unit has a greater advantage than a worn used unit .any good trans shop can bench the unit for a reasonable price .i had my auto unit rebuilt by a local tranny builder who specializes in racing powerglides which installed high quality clutches and steel discs in my unit.i cant really say which is stronger or weaker i just know both will work in a conversion.the auto is a lower ratio than the man unit.depending on how you drive or the regular maintenance you perform to increase the longevity of what your using.
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:38 am

il dig up some older posts concerning this topic


Last edited by stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:39 am

xschop wrote:
Hey Dawg. I'm talking actual R&P ratio differences here....
944 NA 3.89
944T 3.375
I can't say weather the 944 Auto R&P's are larger at the bearing carriers, but the teath contact area may trump the 944T R&P and on top of that the Auto pinion is on a large shaft secured by 3 roller bearings and the 944 NA and Turbos have only 2.
The 944 NA and Turbo boxes are week at the rear thrust bearing retainers ( reinforcement plate mod proves this).
Excellent find. I downloaded all the 944 stuff
Hey Stuart, the clutch discs can be beefed up (kevlar) with some digging around. Amazing the R&P Ratio for the Automatic trumps even the 944T R&P. 3.08 and a 3.45
2 different boxes. I'm not up on automatics. Does the Torque converter ratio factor in? 2.08 & 2.5
2.71
1.50
1.00
3.08 R&P

2.55
1.45
1.00
3.45 R&P
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  948 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:46 am

stuart f. wright wrote:there are differences between auto and man ring and pin they are not the same .gear ratio is different and auto has 3 bearings on shaft which is larger on auto than man r&p which has two bearings
Yes, that is true and very obvious.....



What I correctly stated was
948 wrote:the guts of the auto differential are the same as the 944 Turbo manual boxes

Cool
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:04 am

if they are the same then you can swap r&p between the two units to get different ratios just wondering it would be nice to have a higher ratio on auto unit for lower rpm at highway speed
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  944convert on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:57 am

stuart f. wright wrote:if they are the same then you can swap r&p between the two units to get different ratios just wondering it would be nice to have a higher ratio on auto unit for lower rpm at highway speed
That’s one of the reasons I recently picked up a 3-speed from a ’91 Audi 200 FWD…because it has a 3.08 R&P (and because it has the big 108mm axle shaft flanges).

I also have a durable Torsen differential from an Audi V8 that would distribute power to both rear wheels…and am planning to have a shop machine it to match the original diff’s shaft dimensions and transfer the 3.08 ring. Then the backlash etc will need to be checked and reset.

Of course I will have the automatic section rebuilt with a HD kit (steels, kevlar, yada-yada)...and I already have fitted a dedicated 2 speed fan ATF cooler under the back next to the spare tire well.

btw…some of the early Audi 5000 models came with a 3.08 R&P but like any used automatics from a junked car…you never know if it was swapped during its life rather then rebuilding the original unit.

-Tom


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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:01 am

944convert wrote:
stuart f. wright wrote:if they are the same then you can swap r&p between the two units to get different ratios just wondering it would be nice to have a higher ratio on auto unit for lower rpm at highway speed
That’s one of the reasons I recently picked up a 3-speed from a ’91 Audi 200 FWD…because it has a 3.08 R&P (and because it has the big 108mm axle shaft flanges).

I also have a durable Torsen differential from an Audi V8 that would distribute power to both rear wheels…and am planning to have a shop machine it to match the original diff’s shaft dimensions and transfer the 3.08 ring. Then the backlash etc will need to be checked and reset.

Of course I will have the automatic section rebuilt with a HD kit (steels, kevlar, yada-yada)...and I already have fitted a dedicated 2 speed fan ATF cooler under the back next to the spare tire well.

btw…some of the early Audi 5000 models came with a 3.08 R&P but like any used automatics from a junked car…you never know if it was swapped during its life rather then rebuilding the original unit.

-Tom thank you thats very informative answer to my question for facts concerning the issue

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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  944convert on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:35 am

No probs.

I'm also planning on reinforcing the torque tube's rear flex plate and torque converter bolt bosses and getting the TC reworked...including the stall speed reduced as much as possible since the V8 is a L92 and has gobs of torque even at low rpm.

Then will need to upgrade the CV joints, axle stubs and axles to match the 108mm transaxle flanges…and on, and on, and…

-Tom


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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  944convert on Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:03 pm

heh...heh...Stuart, one other point, however a little bit off topic.

Why does 'headstrong' have a guru rating of 20 while you & I are rated a 6 each ??

I've even purchased a lot of stuff from Eric, so that has no effect.. LOL

Is the basis for the rating explained anywhere...anyone?


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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:49 pm

that thought did cross my mind i heard a rumor he had a na with an auto is rather strange it is wonder if headstrong is going to get rid of that rubber dampener when he pulls the motor i hear good ones bring a good price hehehe
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:50 pm

944convert wrote:heh...heh...Stuart, one other point, however a little bit off topic.

Why does 'headstrong' have a guru rating of 20 while you & I are rated a 6 each ??

I've even purchased a lot of stuff from Eric, so that has no effect.. LOL

Is the basis for the rating explained anywhere...anyone?

maybe number 1 guru status is the highest it goes backwards they take points off everytime you coment on somthing you know about lol
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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  headstrong2740 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:45 pm

WOW

I see I have started a huge debate between some people on the Auto Build.
This is really my first major swap out. I have changed motors several times on various vehicle but always been stock jobs this will be the first that is of this scale.

Interestingly I had planned on dropping out the rubber damper in the swap to a manual clutch setup because mine is etting worn out and starting to tear.

The auto will be used for now and once it breaks is when i will do the manual swap over. The only down side about the auto which has been pointed out was that its only a 3 spd and that at highway speeds or close to them it seems that a 4th gear would be great or a gearing that is taller and will be a lower rpm.


As far as Guru statis i was under the assumption it was a lower number ment better. I would however like to see it drop down as I go.


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Re: AUTO CONVERSION

Post  stuart f. wright on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:20 pm

no problem any help you need that im able to help with let me know there are some gurus on here that know quite a bit of info welcome most everyone on here has 5 speed man couple of us have automatics if you could tell by the debate.my auto has been working pretty good for quite a while.im using a clutch to connect to tourqe tube just like the ones who are using the manual trans
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