HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Crate engine options

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Crate engine options

Post  Big E on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:50 am

I'm finally to the point where it's time to stop figuring if I'm going to do this conversion, lurking on this board, and just start doing it. So, let's talk engines. I may or may not go with a used one from a wreck, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's limit ourselves to currently-available crate engines from GM. The LS1 is still available, and for a while now I have been figuring that I'd use that. However,now that the rubber is starting to meet the road (ie, my credit card is getting exhausted buying parts), and I have been looking harder, I've been wondering about the other options. In my mind at least, the options are:

LS1 - sort of the baseline for everything - ~$5000 for complete engine, no FEAD, harness, or computer.
LS3 - more power, not that much pricier - ~$6200 for complete engine, no FEAD, harness, or computer.
LS3 E-rod - LS3 engine + harness, accelerator pedal, O2 sensors, cats, evap canister. No FEAD. ~$7600.
LC9 E-rod - aluminum-block 5.3L w/ VVT + harness, accelerator pedal, O2 sensors, cats, evap canister. No FEAD. ~$5700.
LS7 - HAH!

This is going to be a street car that sees autocross and track use strictly for fun. I'm not worried about class restrictions, etc. And since it's not going to be a daily driver, I'm not that worried about emissions stuff (not an issue in MD).

I was pretty much set on the LS1 as the crate engine of choice. The stock LS3 almost seems like too much power (really!), and it's not like I couldn't eventually upgrade the LS1 to get some more power out of it. The LS3 E-rod just has too much stuff that I ultimately wouldn't use anyway - like exhaust system through the cats & the evap canister. I've also heard that the E-rod computers can't be modified since the E-rod kits are emissions-approved, but really have no idea if that's true.

The LC9 E-rod kit, however, is what got me thinking about this. It's rated at 315 hp / 335 torque, so it's not that far behind the LS1. But it has VVT, which seems like could open up a ton of opportunities when it came time to tune things. I know the E-rod kit is ready to go so there's no tuning involved (which is also nice to get things up and running), but in the future, I would think having VVT might really be advantageous. Interestingly, the LC9 crate engine by itself does not have VVT - only the one that comes with the E-rod kit.

I know I'd have to change out even more stuff w/ the LC9 (like the intake manifold), but are the other things like oil pan, motor mounts, etc., compatible across all of these Gen IV engines?

Any thoughts and opinions on this?

Big E

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Rich L. on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:40 pm

Hey Big E. I'm researching engines right now too. One thing I'm not fond about the GM Performance LS1 create engine is that it comes with a DBW throttle body. Pace Performance offers an "install kit" that includes wiring, computers and a vette gas pedal to make it work for $1600. Or I assume a cable throttle body would bolt-on and the factory f-body wiring and computer would work. Another issue with that LS1 is the Holden oil pan. It's not clear to me what all would be required to make TPC's oil pan work.

There is also the LS3 from GM Performance in both stock 430hp form and a cam'd 480hp version. Again, it's a DBW throttle body. And again, I'm not sure what is required to make TPC's oil pan work. Further, I think that intake will have hood clearance issues and the accessories will be different (harder?) to setup.

The third option I'm looking into is a locally rebuilt f-body engine. I'm being quoted 430hp for $4500. Like you, I'm not worried about racing class but will use the car almost exclusively on track.

Rich
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Rich L. on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:45 pm

On the GM Performance LS1 crate engine: "This engine comes with a front sump Holden/GTO style oil pan installed. Will not fit most applications. For rear sump 1998-2002 Camaro/Firebird oil pan, order 1 # 12598151 oil pan (pan includes lower internal baffle, low oil level sensor, drain plug and seal, oil cooler block off plate and gasket, 1 # 12558253 windage tray, 1 # 12558251 pick-up screen, 1 # 12558760 oil pan gasket, 1 #12551577 dipstick tube, 1 # 12551581 dipstick."

I have TPC's oil pan and remote filter setup. Anyone know what of the above would be required to make it work on this LS1 crate engine?

Thanks,
Rich
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  944-LT1 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 pm

Dont be afraid of DBW. Its real easy. If any of you guys need help with it, let me know. I thought the same thing but once I got to installing it, I chuckle at my previous thoughts of it.

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Geoff Daniels on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:17 pm

Big E,

For the prices you are quoting I would seriously be looking at a used motor with all the accessories and wiring. I got a great motor with everything from an outfit up near Philly that specializes in F Body and Corvette salvage. You can get a low mile used LS1 and still have a couple thousand dollars to spruce it up if you want to and spend less then a crate motor. It sounds like you will not be putting a lot of miles on the car so a resonably low mileagee motor will last you forever. These motors are strong and will serve you well for over 100K miles.

Where in MD are you. I am in Southern MD and am just starting my conversion.

Geoff

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Big E on Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:20 am

Geoff Daniels wrote:Big E,

For the prices you are quoting I would seriously be looking at a used motor with all the accessories and wiring. I got a great motor with everything from an outfit up near Philly that specializes in F Body and Corvette salvage. You can get a low mile used LS1 and still have a couple thousand dollars to spruce it up if you want to and spend less then a crate motor. It sounds like you will not be putting a lot of miles on the car so a resonably low mileagee motor will last you forever. These motors are strong and will serve you well for over 100K miles.

Where in MD are you. I am in Southern MD and am just starting my conversion.

Geoff

No question, used is much cheaper. But at the very beginning of my first post I said

Big E wrote:I may or may not go with a used one from a wreck, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's limit ourselves to currently-available crate engines from GM.

so I'd like to stick to the crate engine discussion for the moment.

Rich, those are some good points. I had not seen that Pace kit, that is handy, although I'm not too fond of the looks of the wiring kit and have some other things in mind for that. But at least the Pace kit gives you a good starting point.

I had not paid attention to whether the LS1 was DBW or not, but I don't think it's an issue to swap to a cable if you want (obviously impacts the computer program though). One question on the DBW, how does you interface it with cruise control??

No thoughts on the LC9 w/ VVT option?

Big E

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Rich L. on Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:41 pm

I haven't considered the truck engines. I believe you have an issue with intake manifold and coils interfering with the hood; solved with an LS1 or LS6 intake. And the belt setup is different but I don't know details.

Personally, I'm leaning toward a rebuilt LS1, cable throttle, f-body computer and harness.

Rich
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Admin on Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:56 pm

Cruise control is a stand alone system on the 944's, so as long as it worked before it'll work after, unless you go DBW. It only take four wires for the DBW cruise to work, but you would have to re wire the factory switch to work with it.
You will have to buy some sort of conversion oil pan, so what ever your crate motor comes with does not matter.
If you go with a truck motor,you will need to set the accessories just like the F body set up. You can use the truck ac compressor and balancer if you use a camaro water pump and space it out 3/4" .

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Rich L. on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:02 pm

Information from Pace this morning:

"The 17801268 [LS6 crate engine] has been discontinued since March. It is no longer available. ... The PAC-60522 kit is on backorder because the TAC module and pedal used in it are on backorder from GM."

So sorry, that Pace kit starting point for the DBW is not currently available. They do have the LS3 crate engines and control kits. 430hp is temping... Twisted Evil

Rich


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Re: Crate engine options

Post  MILKMAN on Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:53 am

I just bought a new LS376/480 Crate Engine from Fred Beans Cadillac Buick GMC, in Doylestown PA for $6460. These guys are great. They would have shipped it to me for $75. I drove to pick it up, just to see the engine and look at the operation. Everyone was very helpful.
I also bought the LS Controller Kit for $944 and the accessory drive bracket kit for $760
The only thing that I didn't expect was that I had to buy a different flywheel. The one on the crate engine is for an automatic.
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Dawgz83948 on Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:55 am

The newewst Crate Engine option..... Even the pan looks right.

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Big E on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:36 am

Dawgz83948 wrote:The newewst Crate Engine option..... Even the pan looks right.

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I don't think I can afford the transmission rebuild business that would be required with that Shocked

Big E

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Big E on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:39 am

Geoff Daniels wrote:I got a great motor with everything from an outfit up near Philly that specializes in F Body and Corvette salvage.

Geoff - is that by any chance "F Parts Salvage", seller "fparts" on eBay? I have actually been looking at their stuff and e-mailed them back and forth a little bit. I'm in the College Park area, but the car is up in Catonsville.

In the end I think I will probably go the used motor route at this point. I'd still love to do a crate motor, but right now I just can't justify the added cost.

Big E

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  cjbcpa on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:28 pm

MILKMAN wrote:I just bought a new LS376/480 Crate Engine from Fred Beans Cadillac Buick GMC, in Doylestown PA for $6460. These guys are great. They would have shipped it to me for $75. I drove to pick it up, just to see the engine and look at the operation. Everyone was very helpful.
I also bought the LS Controller Kit for $944 and the accessory drive bracket kit for $760
The only thing that I didn't expect was that I had to buy a different flywheel. The one on the crate engine is for an automatic.

Milkman, if you are local to the Upper Bucks or Philly area, drop me a line. I'm a couple years away from a swap, but can offer you an extra set of hands in return for some insights into doing the swap.

CB
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Geoff Daniels on Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:13 pm

Big E,

Yep that is the place. I found them to be very good to work with. The motor I got had everything included such as all the accesssories, power steering and AC hoses, wiring harness, computer, complete intake and maf, and even the O2 sensors. They even threw in a flywheel after I asked them about getting one. I also bought a 2 piece C5 BH from them. Everything on the motor was disconnected and undamaged. in fact the only thing that was cut was the exhaust pipes below the exhaust manifold. I drove up and picked it up but they are happy to ship.

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Re: Crate engine options

Post  87-944S on Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:48 pm

I got my GTO engine from them several years ago, good experience as well. Where in MD are you Geoff?
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  Geoff Daniels on Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:36 pm

Mike, I live in Southern Maryland. Hollywood to be specific.


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Re: Crate engine options

Post  87-944S on Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:08 pm

About 80 miles south of me, sounds like a road trip when my car is legal! Very Happy
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  MILKMAN on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:25 am

cjbcpa wrote:
MILKMAN wrote:I just bought a new LS376/480 Crate Engine from Fred Beans Cadillac Buick GMC, in Doylestown PA for $6460. These guys are great. They would have shipped it to me for $75. I drove to pick it up, just to see the engine and look at the operation. Everyone was very helpful.
I also bought the LS Controller Kit for $944 and the accessory drive bracket kit for $760
The only thing that I didn't expect was that I had to buy a different flywheel. The one on the crate engine is for an automatic.

Milkman, if you are local to the Upper Bucks or Philly area, drop me a line. I'm a couple years away from a swap, but can offer you an extra set of hands in return for some insights into doing the swap.

CB
CB
I'm in Long Island N.Y. Sorry. But I'll be happy to give you any advise that I can. I've got a lot of my parts from Eric at Texas Performance Concepts. All the stuff I've got from him has been great. He is the one that really knows about this swap. I also have two of my good buddies that are both Porsche Master Tech's. One thinks I'm crazy for making a German Corvette. The other one loves the idea, it seems they both hated to work on 944 turbo's. The nice thing about this swap is Eric and this website for tons of info.
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Re: Crate engine options

Post  cjbcpa on Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:56 am

Thanks Mark, I agree, lots of info here and TPC is where I'll buy most of my parts. Hope you'll share your build on this site.

Best of luck,

CB
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