Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Yup, I'm the new guy, so I thought I should post an introduction.

I've been building 944s for years and have owned more 944/951s than I can count on my fingers. I've always wanted to do an LSx conversion but I have always been turned off by RH and their ridiculously overpriced and under engineered conversion parts. I later discovered 944v8s but heard horrible things about customer service and shortly after their site was shut down. I've been following the V8 threads on Rennlist and someone mentioned this site, so here I am. Since I am a DIY kind of guy, this seems like the perfect place to gather information and chat with others that have first hand experience with V8 swaps.

I haven't started a swap yet, but I've got the perfect candidate. I recently picked up an 86 951 with a blown motor for an extremely good price. I was planning to drop my spare 951 motor in it, but then I started thinking "why not an LSx?".

Forgive me for preaching to the choir, but I have never been impressed with the 944 motor. It seems that the engineers at Porsche simply put a Band-aid (tm) on an already poor design just to make half of a 928 V8 work in the 944 chassis. The 951 motor is an even bigger cluster-f**k of parts just thrown together to make it work. Also, you can spend thousands of dollars in an effort to get 350-400hp out of the 951 motor, but then you end up with a rolling grenade with no low end torque. The cost of LS based motors has come down considerably and obviously they have been proven to work, so no more messing around with finicky motors and overpriced parts for me!

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting to know you guys and learning more about V8 swaps. I hope that I can contribute some of my knowledge of 944s and fabrication to help you guys as well.

If there is anyone in the Seattle area with a swap, I'd be interested in discussing how a V8 swap worked out for you.


Thanks for goin' easy on the noob,

Alex

Welcome. You don't sound like a "noob". Make sure you check out the wiki at the top of the page, lots of good information.

Look up the Texas Performance Concepts, he is the guy to get alot of parts from. Eric is a good man and will treat you right, his site is at the top of the page.

Xschop has a couple parts out there as well, and he is always designing something else to try and make a swap easier.

Yeah, Texas Performance Concepts and xschop (Rob) on here should be able to hook you up with the custom parts. The rest can be had from sites like Jegs or Summit.

If you have ever pulled a motor from a 944, then you are no noob. That thing is a pita to take out, well, the way I did it at least.

Thanks for the tip! I've already checked out TPC, I actually found him through an Ebay auction for his Euro bumpers. I didn't buy the bumpers, but I checked out the link in his auction which led me to his website. That is also how I discovered 944v8s.

I'm an "old school" Chevy guy and have stuffed several motors into the engine bay of cars they had no business being in, so I'm sure I can handle a 944 hybrid. I've built several Hondas, Toyotas and other imports with unusual motor swaps and I'm currently working on a '66 Chevy truck for myself with a freshly built/ported LT1. Even though I have found a ton of information on this site, I'm sure I'll be asking alot of questions.

...and here's question #1
Has anyone come up with a header solution? If not, I have both a mig and tig welder so I'll try fabbing up my own. However, time is money so if someone has a reasonably priced pre-fabbed header comparable in quality to something I can make, I'll be all over it.

Also, when I start my swap I plan to document every step of the process. This is not only for my own reference, but to help future engine swappers and so you guys can step in and say "hey stoopid noob, WTF are you doing?!"


Thanks,
Alex

Stupid question #2
How do I quote someone in a post on this forum?

S&P made my headers for the swap you could contact them. I know they made them from a jig so it shouldn't be a problem for them. The guy who was selling them went out of business.

I'll check out S&P for headers. Does anyone have a set? Are they equal length? How is the quality?

...and what is "PORH"? You guys are going to have to give me a history lesson an get me up to speed on the lingo around here.

when you post a reply, look above the text box and you will see two dialogue boxes. That is your quote option. Place the first one then insert the text you want to quote and place the second one at the end.
You have to use the same button twice to get both ends of the quote function.

when you post a reply, look above the text box and you will see two dialogue boxes. That is your quote option. Place the first one then insert the text you want to quote and place the second one at the end.

Got it, thanks

I have the S&P headers. They are very nice and ceramic coated. I don't know if they are equal length, don't look like it. They are 3/4 length not long tube. If you search there are some pictures of them.
PORH I am not sure on. I think it is Pissed Off Renegade Hybrids.

I have the RH headers, they are pricey just for the fact they were the only ones making them at the time. I have no complaints other than the cost. I figured if I ever need to get a bigger set made I will use these as a template and modify the runners as needed.

Just out of curiosity, when you guys fab your own motor mounts, why not use the stock Porsche rubber isolators?

I'm all for removing everything that says Porsche, but it seems like it might be easier to use the factory Porsche part. On the other hand, there are all sorts of polyurethane or solid mounts available for the V8. Maybe it will make sense when I start mocking up the motor.

I've noticed that there is no gallery on this forum, does anyone have detailed pictures of their swap? I'm looking to see how the motor fits in the engine bay and how the steering shaft will interfere with the headers and motor mount stancions. I'm also wondering about throttle body to hood and oil pan to crossmember clearance issues. Basically I'm trying to find a way to fit the motor in without spacing my crossmember since I don't want to mess around with changing the 944's roll center. I'd rather spin the intake manifold around 180* and fabricate a 90* TB adapter than mess with the car's suspension geometry. I use one of my 944s for autocross racing and a proper suspension setup is a key factor to getting fast times, although I suppose that 2-3 times the HP/TQ will also help me get a faster time too!

Thanks

I think PORH is a representation of not having to pay Porsche prices to get the car on the road. For me, I come from BMWs and Porsche pricing is triple that of anything I find BMW related. BMW is normally close to double that of domestic pricing. I know Rob (xschop) has been pushing PORH for a while now.

The reason why we don't use the rubber isolators from the 944 is due to what is mentioned above, the aftermarket for sbc mounts is bigger, and it might have to do with the fact that those mounts are designed around a 4 cylinder and may have certain NVH specs.

The gallery is at the top next to "Calendar" after you log in. Click on that and you should have access to your own gallery in which you can upload the images and also access the other galleries on here.

As for the headers, I will probably end up getting mine through TPC. I think they are custom order though so it might take a little while to get it.

As for quoting, we really need a button that we can click in the thread that automatically does all of it for us. No offense to Eric or the ones who set this site up, but I do feel that this forum is pretty archaic compared to other forums out there.

I checked TPC for headers, but there are none listed on the website so I didn't think that was an option.

Most forums have a section on the main page where everyone can post pictures of their cars and progress, usually called something like "show and shine". I'll just have to search through everyones galleries and hope I find the pictures I am looking for.

I agree that the Porsche motor mount isolators are designed for a 4 cylinder, however an all aluminum LS based motor weighs about the same as the 4 cylinder and some 951 guys are pumping out over 400hp without the mounts failing. I'm not trying to advocate the use of the stock 944 mount, I'm just trying to understand why it's not used. As I mentioned earlier, I'm all for removing anything that says Porsche from my glorified Audi/VW.

The headers are probably not on the site, because it's not in stock. Just e-mail/pm Eric (Admin on here, owner of TPC?) about it and he will give you more information about it.

You can start a thread about your car build in the "944hybrids Member Conversions" section. You can still use the image tags and host the images here and link from that, or host them on another site (I personally love imgur.com).

The motor mounts are designed, because that's how they are designed. As mentioned, I find the mounts with SBC mounts to be as close as a mounted motor in a Chevy chassis. I have no clue if NVH (vibration not power) was accounted for in the mounts or the Porsche mounts, but it could very well be a possibility. All I know is that when my old motor came out, both Porsche mounts were ripped to the point of having to be replaced anyway.

For all of you that want to shun the Porsche badge and name with these cars, just remember, it was still Porsche who designed it the way they did and why we find them so desirable. As much as I love PORH, I still love the fact that Porsche designed a "proper car", even with it being built on a budget with Audi/VW parts.

Don't get me wrong, I am not shunning the Porsche badge. I love these cars, that's why I've had so many of them. I like the styling and handling characteristics and the fact that you can buy one for under $2,000. However most of the parts are either over or under engineered and many of the parts are just band-aids, add ons or revisions to the original VW comissioned 1977 924 chassis.

Yes the 924/944/968 was designed by Porsche, but without the badge it is simply a glorified VW. Even the suspension design was taken directly from the VW Superbeetle, the 924s had Audi/VW motors and all 944s use Audi transmissions. So really, Porsche only designed the body and the FR layout then later they cut a 928 V8 in half, threw a band-aid on it and dropped it in the 944 in the hopes of convincing the Porsche enthusiasts that it really is a proper Porsche.

This is why I want to take as much Porsche as I can out of the car, because technology has made huge leaps and bounds since 1977 when the 924 was introduced to the states, or even since 1985.5 when the late model 944s began production.

Btw, I also love the fact that my $800 POS '87 944 beats up on $15,000 911s at the autocross on a regular basis. I'm glad that it's not a "real Porsche" according to enthusiasts. I don't want to be associated with those elitist @$$holes anyway.

Yeah, you're definitely not a 'new guy'.

These cars are from the 70s and 80s. I will tell you this though; they definitely don't carve curves like a 70s-80s car.

I wonder if a GM engineer test drove a 944 and then said, "Hey, lets do this to the Corvette".

It takes a true enthusiast to see what this car is and to have desire for it. The 944 based car owners are the only group of people that I find that are majority true enthusiasts.

I am slowly leaving BMW due to the decreasing price and the decreasing IQ in the owner department.

Bring on the PORH.

I wonder if a GM engineer test drove a 944 and then said, "Hey, lets do this to the Corvette".

I'm sure they did, they just did it 15 years after the 944 was introduced. Look at the layout of the C5/6, it sure shares an uncanny resemblance to something we are all too familiar with.

...and I agree, most every 944 owner I have met is a true enthusiast because they seem to appreciate the car for what it is and don't see it as a status symbol. The same can be said for 914 owners; Porsche's other ugly stepchild.

Piss ON Renegade Hybrids. I liked my 944's alot. It's my 948 that I look forward to driving every day. The weak engine in a world-class handler is remedied.
I just re-read your posts....You definitely belong here...Forsche lol
And I've spanked a C5 from the light now and hiway roll-on in my 948.....

I knew it was something like that. P on/off. ALFAPU, did you figure out the gallery at the top of the page? You probably have by now. I know someone has pictures of the headers in their gallery. I can email you pictures of mine if you want them. Xschop has pictures of his header modification you can do yourself with an inexpensive set of headers. His seem to work great and much less expensive.

Yeah, the Hooker 2312's work like a charm.
Moroso 20140 oil pan............wlac
Ebay Oil reloc adapter kit.......wlac
5.3 truck motor/LS1 intake......wlac

Marky522 has the best homemade long tubes I've seen, also 944-LT1 I believe, someone needs to get them re-pro'ed on a lo-cost jig and actually ship them out after people pay for them....lol

ALFAPU,

Forget about not running spacers unless you do some cross member modifications! IF anyone tells you different, it isn't true. I build these for a living and I have tried everything to get the thing built without spacers, it doesn't work!

AS far as the headers, I can have them made for you, the are 3/4 quarter length and take up to a month to get to me. Rob's version works too, if you can do the mod on them.
If you need an oil pan I have them, they are not modified moroso's, they are custom made for me, They are the lowest profile that can be made without a dry sump setup.

As far as motor mounts, I'll have a new design out just after Christmas they will do away with the Porsche and the Chevrolet mount completely, No more set back plates either.
Eric

What are the clearance issues that require spacing the crossmember? I'm assuming that without spacers the TB will hit the hood, but does the intake manifold hit the hood without the TB?

I'm just starting to plan how to tackle this swap and I'm trying to figure out what I will be fabricating and what I'll be buying pre-fabbed. I still can't seem to find any pictures that clearly show the clearance issues.

Good to know about the new mounts since the setback plates and cantilevered stancions are the main reason I decided to fab my own mounts. It seems to me that there has to be a design that simplifies the motor mounts yet still allows clearance for the steering shaft and header.

I'll be contacting you soon about some parts!

Intake clears , TB is what hits.