HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

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Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  Techno Duck on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:57 am

I was wondering about replacing the clutch with a LSx series engine in the car. Still need to drop the trans, slide the torque tube back..etc? Any easier or harder with the different bellhousing?

Also i was wondering, how is access to the front end of the engine? Assuming you take the fans out is there a reasonable amount of space to mess around with the belts, waterpump..etc if need be in the future or is it right up against the radiator?

Still deciding about making the swap or not, but with all the research i have done tonight (finding an LS1 closeby, which i did! and looking up quotes to ship the car to Eric @ TPC) i think subconsciously i know what i want to do.. Smile.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  944-LT1 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:16 am

Personally, with how compact the engine is and how easily it comes out, I pull the engine to do clutch related work. Its by far faster and really....Id need to change antifreeze anyway at that point. Laughing But many do it the same ol' way too. The GM 2-piece manual bellhousing does not allow you to do anything more than periodically inspect the clutch and slave as well as adjust the pressure plate if need be. Thats the only real reason its 2-piece.

As far as room in front of the engine...that depends on who built the car. I myself have moved the radiator more forward after cutting out the sheetmetal crossmember/brace that sits normally in front of the radiator as stock. This allows room to move the radiator forward for clearnace as well as gain additional airflow. If youre taking your car to Eric, he may do the same as the tubular crossmember, that I replaced the sheetmetal with, was made by him.

If the radiator stays in the stock location, it would be something like this (ls968)
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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  968ls1 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:34 am

The two piece bell housing allows you to do a clutch change without removing the upper part of the bell housing and the bolts on the drivers side are a bitch to get in and out. You can also visually see the disc release when you are bleeding the clutch. I have found it much easier to remove the trans vs the engine it is a lot less labor.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  xschop on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:20 am

I showed my car to a local guy that is about to do the swap and when I opened the hood the first thing he said was "that looks easier to work on than the 4 cylinder". I replied alot cheaper too. There is plenty of room. The #5 an #7 plug is a little more difficult on my swap because of the Dual MC housing. Other than that, everything else is a cakewalk.
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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  Techno Duck on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:45 am

Thanks for the input. So i take it that doing the clutch is just as much as a PITA as it was with the stock engine? And two bell housing bolts are tough to get at? So to clear things up, does the 2pc bell housing allow enough space to replace the clutch or is it for inspection only?

I personally prefer replacing the clutch by the typical method of dropping the trans and sliding the torque tube back. One of my #1 hated jobs on these cars is getting the transmission back in, but id rather do that than pull the engine personally Smile.

944-LT1, thanks for that picture. Does not look bad at all and if anything may be a little better as i would probably stick with a new stock radiator. A year or two ago i put in an aftermarket 'upgrade' radiator in my buddies 944 track car and that thing turned into a nightmare to work on, the core was huge compared to stock and the fans were literally right up against the crank pulley. I forgot who made the radiator but it was from a group buy maybe 5-6 years ago on RL. I have been a little spoiled from working on the 4.0L in my Cherokee, replacing the thermostat housing and waterpump on that was nearly enjoyable I love you .

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  968ls1 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:03 pm

You can remove the bottom and and change the clutch but must still remove the trans it just eliminates removing the bolts that hold the bell housing to the engine. I built a cradle for my floor jack so it it easy to get the trans aligned with the torque tube.

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Clutch job.

Post  fliermike45 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:27 pm

Having just changed my Central Tube (torque tube), the later cars have ears on the tube which make it difficult to slide backwards. The tube I removed had one of the forward ears cut off, this allows the tube to slide backwards. This indicates that my car had had a clutch job performed at an earlier date.

For anyone contemplating removing the tube, you must drop the rear suspension torsion bar tube to allow enough room to lower the tube.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  Techno Duck on Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:44 pm

Been there done that with the torque tube. I put in one rebuilt by Constantine over on RL into my car. One of the worse jobs i have ever performed, and the car was on a 2post lift.. The tabs really arent that big of a deal, you just need to rotate the torque tube for it to clear the torsion tube assemble. The tube i had rebuilt is an early one and doesn't have those hooks anyhow.

The torsion bar assembly only needs to be lowered 5-6 inches to get the torque tube out. Brake lines and e-brake cable can remain connected saving some trouble.

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TT

Post  fliermike45 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:13 pm

TD, I like your use of the word "only", it's like a "little" corrosion.

Also you have to remove the aluminium cross member ahead of the torsion tube.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  944-LT1 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:44 am

Well, I guess I should clarify. My engine has no accessories. Just an alternator and electric waterpump. So you can see how its easier for me to just pull the engine.

PS.....Jeeps are awesome. I love you 95 Jeep wrangler here!

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  Techno Duck on Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:48 pm

Yea, i love it. So easy to work on and reliable. Just it is pretty damn bad on gas Smile.

I am still debating this swap. Sent out a few emails on quotes for crate LS6 motors. Costs a fair bit more than a used LS1, but still pretty damn cheap considering its a brand new factory engine. I guess i feel a little nostalgic with the turbo motor, i would miss the turbo spool up sound and bypass valve on lift. But a lopey idle from a LSx would be nice i guess also. Very Happy

This is for Marky552. I got your PM but i dont have the post count to send a reply (doh!). Send me another PM with your email.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  johntorg on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:44 pm

944-LT1 I saw in your picture that the fan is mounted behind the radiator as a "puller". Is there any problem mounting the fan in front of the radiator as a "pusher". If it works it would give a little more room in front of the engine.
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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  944-LT1 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:54 pm

johntorg wrote:944-LT1 I saw in your picture that the fan is mounted behind the radiator as a "puller". Is there any problem mounting the fan in front of the radiator as a "pusher". If it works it would give a little more room in front of the engine.


Yeah, well the problem is the stock sheetmetal crossmember in front of the radiator. If you cut it out and replace it with a tubular one, you should have no problem putting the fan in front of the radiator.
BTW, the picture above is not my car.

Heres a picture of mine when it was still LT powered.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  johntorg on Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:25 am

Thanks for the information. The 944 LT1 I just bought has a RH radiator mounted at a slight angle. There appears to be plenty of room for the fan to be mounted in front. I'll check it out later today
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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  944-LT1 on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:44 am

Whos conversion did you buy (or who sold their conversion)? Reason I ask is that theres a few LT guys MIA around here lately.

You mention you want access to the front of the engine...before I did the the tubular crossmember mod and with the radiator in the stock position, I could change my water pump easily. Maybe not the optispark, belts, water pump and pulleys/idlers no problem. After the tubular crossmember mod, all the better! Very Happy

Anyway, LTs run a bit on the hot side as Im sure you know. So, if youre thinking a pusher is in order, you should know that pushers are, at maximum, only ~80% as efficient as pullers; depending on the fan motor, blade style and size.


Here are some common reasons for this:

1. Pushers block incoming air to the radiator
2. Pushers will only pass air through an area equal to the blade diameter
3. Pushers can create quite the turbulance at speed and deflect alot of incoming air (depending on blade count and surface area of blade)
4. Pushers cant be effectively shrouded [see number 2]
5. Pushers dont provide additional cooling air over the engine (it is dispersed as soon as it hits the radiator core)

Not trying to deter you from a pusher. You sound like you know whats what. Just that, since 96, Ive read a lot (a crap load) of threads where even a puller wasnt cooling some peoples LT conversions! Now there was some instances where people neglected to open up the stock 944 bumper and by this I mean, with more cubic inch engines requires more square inch radiators requires more incoming air requires the bumper designed for a 4 cylinder to be re-designed (cut up) for 8. And alot were not running a shroud plus the fact that RH sold a lot of those spal fans that just plain sucked.

To me, the best cooling scenario for our conversions is to, amongst others I cant think of right now:
1. cut out the stock sheetmetal crossmember in front of the radiator and replace it with a tubular one
2. install the largest + 3 row radiator you can with this newly given space from 1 above
3. if its an NA, either mod the lower bumper skirt to introduce more air or install a turbo bumper cover and mod that.
4. install sheetmetal ducting from the bumper nose to the radiator (ram air-like) and seal the gaps and holes above the radiator along the hood latch brace.
5. remove the firewall to hood seal to allow additional hot air to escape the engine bay.
6. keep the belly pan from the bottom of the radiator to the engine or fab one up that allows air forced through the radiator and pulled by the fan to pass over the engine.
7. install a lincoln MK VIII or ford taurus fan (superb-upwards 4300 cfm).
8. keep the water to antifreeze ratio closer to 25:75 or 20:80 (if you can in your environment).
9. install a 160 degree t-stat
10. keep your engine tuned!

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  johntorg on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:52 am

Thanks again. I will probably go with the puller fan. I received a fan with the car and will install it and see how it goes. I had a SBC 944 and overheating was a constant problem. I will certainly follow the rest of your advice. The car has a Renegade Hybrids radiator and I believe some of the front sheet metal has been removed.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  944-LT1 on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:24 am

Oh, yeah, that radiator is a bit more towards the engine than mine was. Changing the waterpump in that car may be a bit difficult. Laughing But, then again, if you ever have to replace the waterpump, youre gonna drain the coolant system anyway so pulling the radiator to change it out wont be such a big deal.

John wrote:I had a SBC 944 and overheating was a constant problem.
Ah, didnt know you already had a converted 944.

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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

Post  johntorg on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:30 pm

I owned it for about a year. It was a SBC in an 84 944 NA. It had a stock radiator, very "iffy" brakes and not too pretty an interior. That said, it was a lot of fun to drive for short distances. I bought the car already done, so this will be the first and 2nd conversions I attempt.
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Re: Two LSx swap questions, clutch replacement and working space

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