HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

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power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:09 am

i got into a debate with a gentelman on you tube who is convinced that he can make a porsche v8 put out more power than a chevy v8 at a cheaper price.he is building a twin turbo s4 928.my argument is in normaly aspirated form that a chevy v8 can be built at a lower price to put out more than the porsche v8.im sure he will be here to visit us .he is very inteligent builder with an awsome 928 he is building .he was making a point that a stock s4 puts out more hp than a stock lt1 and can be built cheaper to put out more power than the chevy at a cheaper price .your thoughts for the purist
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:13 am

What do you want me to "prove" You're arguing with the wrong guy regarding modifications on the Porsche 928 engine. You see, I build some of the most powerful 928 engines out there. Don't believe me? Just see my videos or my website:

You guys all sound alike. "It's cheaper and better to go Chevy powered". It's all BS because there are never any numbers to back it all up. I "proved it" years ago and everybody who builds 928s knows it including those guys who sell SBC conversion kits. Funny how they won't answer the buring question on what it costs to build a 600 HP SBC conversion. I'm not talking about a Mickey Mouse 375 HP junkyard pull here.

You show me on paper the itemized list of parts and labor time to do a full 600 HP Chevy V8 conversion with all accessories, AC, power steering, fuel injection control, spark with knock control, exhaust, clutch, conversion parts, labor time, etc... turn key! I'll be glad to show you invoices of a 650+ HP twin turbo 928S4 conversion, completely turn key. I just delivered it in July of this year. (See video for initial dial in on the car)

As soon as you provide me with your itemized cost list (with labor time), I'll show you my invoices.

Put up or shut up is my point of view. I don't think it's too much to ask for you to provide statements to back up your claim. I'm ready when you are.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:00 am

Turnkeyengines.com sells a LS3 with 600HP for $15.5 including all accessories, headers and wire harness. There is no reason it could not be built by an individual cheaper starting with a used motor. It is hard to believe he can do it cheaper with a 928 motor going NA. I just saw a 3.0 liter 951 longblock on Ebay for $12K. Put this argument up on LS1.com I am sure there will be some takers.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  adam7e on Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:27 am

He's the one challenging you to "put up or shut up?"

I suggest the "shut up" choice. He's probably advertising for his engine build service, and there's no need to help him.

I'm putting a Chevy in my car because: I like to do things myself, I enjoy putting modern tech into old stuff, and because I could pick up the engine locally.

So this guy can build a comparable 928 engine for less cash... good for him. I wonder how much shipping adds to the build price?

All that said, it still boils down to a "who" and not a "how much" defense. >I< want to do it, not pay him.

....and who the heck cares about 928's anyway.... they already came w/a v8...
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:47 am

If he is just bolting on twin turbo's to an old 130K mi motor without rebuilding it first, it may come out cheaper. To bring it up to a like new motor or to do a stroker motor and go NA to make that power it is going to cost more than $15.5K. He needs to include his normal fees for building an engine in his estimation, not just parts cost.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  modenas on Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:21 am

really? he wants paper for the cost of a 600hp conversion? let me show the 800 i pulled out of mine. old imca motor 137 wins and screams louder and better than a 928. if he wants paper work for my 8 i can get it or he can shut up.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  laptop_geek on Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:40 am

Haha, can't believe the 928 guy would get into this discussion in the first place, but oh well. This is why I stay off comment discussions on youtube. Your dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about (or are just making up fish stories). Funny thing is, you can buy a 600HP SBC crate motor (or at least get darn close to it), but try buying a 600HP Porsche motor, in fact, the only stock 600HP Porsche motor that I can think of that was put in a street car is the motor in the 911 GT2 (I think thats pulling about 620HP IIRC). Also, you've got to compare N/A with N/A and forced induction with forced induction. Its not even worth the argument if your talking about two different beasts. I assume your both talking about FI built motors, in which case, the SBC should be cheaper to build (on paper) simply because more companies make parts. I think its funny he's arguing about all this "on paper". I once built a car "on paper", and its still sittin right were I left it.

I agree with the above though, I'm not building this car for other people. It's for me.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  Admin on Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:09 am

Don't worry about the money , ask him about the RELIABILITY! Shocked

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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  xschop on Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:24 pm

Ask him if the 928 Thrust Bearing Failure occurences increase by double LOL.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:10 pm

it all started with a coment he made to a video of a 83 944 with a lt1 how he says the 928 makes 341 hp stock and the lt1 makes 220 hp stock and he said it was basicly a waste of time and that it would be cheaper to build a porsche v8 and i comented to him to prove it where he sent me the nasty message that i posted here .i believe i asked him first to prove it.i sent him a message on how much it cost me to build a sbc and power out put in naturaly aspirated form which i guarentee is way more than 928 mill and invited him here to put up or shut up .so we will see.i will find video n post it where he made coment and here is<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uwMQFoCFag?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uwMQFoCFag?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:28 pm

this is the last message i got from him....Superchargers are garbage next to turbos. Anybody who knows anything about forced induction knows that. Should you disagree, show me one car that wins LeMans with a belt driven pump...you can't because it doesn't happen. As for nitrous oxide, well like Gale Banks says "get a better job" because it's nothing but a drag race tool and you have to constantly fill the bottle at $40 a shot. It's like buying $40 band-aids that quickly destroy the engine. Nothing beats turbos for $/useable HP and longevity.

We're not talking about blowing 2011 Camaros here. 650 HP out of an engine already making 400 HP NA is easy, anybody can do that math. If you recall, this conversation was about taking a stock 928 engine and making 600+ HP with it vs. converting to Chevy power at the same power level. Nitrous isn't in this equation, because only a fool runs that and then claims a power number build on longevity. What about my torque figures? 600+ ft-lbs at 3,800 RPM. Is that enough for you? If you know anything you know that turbos make more top end power and a lot more midrange than superchargers...any of them. This includes the positive displacement type and that's a fact. If you're using a Vortech type and running your mouth like this, it's even more laughable because Vortechs are garbage and have one place in my shop...the trash can. Turbo vs SC has been proven for decades, but types like you still run your mouth and say "cheaper". Show me one properly engineered SC system that outperforms a properly engineered turbo system on the same engine. Again, you can't because you'll never get around the fact that the SC takes a lot more power from the crank to compress the charge, whereas the turbo pulls it out of the 1/3 of the energy the piston engine throws out the exhaust system that otherwise goes to complete waste. That includes your 2011 Camaro.

I can build a 928 that can put out 650 HP without a turbo, so what's your point? It has been done before, someone is making 675 HP all motor with a 928 engine and I'm not talking about spraying laughing gas into a hand-grenade pushrod engine here. 6.5 liters, individual throttle bodies and 7,500 RPM. It's a simple math equation. That particular car is track driven.

Junk? Please. The 928S4 engine is a very advanced piece that has excellent longevity, tight tolerances and advanced engine management, especially for the time it was developed... when the best thing GM was doing was an electric carb they tried to sell as fuel injection. Longevity? Partner, my engine has nearly 200,000 on the clock and was daily driven for 1.5 years with 30,000 of that after conversion. Trust me, they last. Do you have experience that documents otherwise? You want to hear the best part? To add turbocharging to a 928S4 you never even have to remove the engine from the chassis. Looks like I added a check in the box next to "less labor time".

I gave up arguing on online forums with types like you. It's a stupid waste of time as are most automotive internet forums. I would not even waste a second of time on your forum. As a degreed engineering and business professional, I know the difference between facts and BS. I'm still waiting for your itemized list of parts on converting a 928S4 to SBC 600+ power but after reading this I'm sure it would just be a pile of BS anyway. But should you still want to have an objective discussion on the original topic I'll have my invoices ready as proof of what can be done.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:37 pm

Keep it apples to apples. I would like to see the cost of the N/A 600+HP 928 vs the LS3. I bet it is well north of $15.5K.
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:16 pm

i asked him for a price several times on cost of his build and he never would say.i could build a nelson racing twin turbo setup with way more power if i wanted to go turbo that would way outpower the s4 motor turboed.id like to see the price of a crate twin turbo s4 motor .
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  Admin on Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Do we forget that the porsche V8 would cost a ton and be a pain in the ass to get into our car, if it fits at all Shocked
And I don't really like the look of the 928, that is why I own a 944!

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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  stuart f. wright on Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:24 pm

Admin wrote:Do we forget that the porsche V8 would cost a ton and be a pain in the ass to get into our car, if it fits at all Shocked
And I don't really like the look of the 928, that is why I own a 944!
rite on
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  xschop on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:10 pm

Plus he'll need all that power to match the 948 P/W ratio in that lug hehe
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Re: power per dollar porsche v8 vs chevrolet v8

Post  laptop_geek on Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:07 pm

Hahahaha,
stuart f. wright wrote:
I gave up arguing on online forums with types like you.

So now he sticks to places mature people post, like youtube.
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