HOW TO DO AN ADVANCED SEARCH.

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm by Admin


For the benefit of 944Hybrids users there are two search functions available for you to use.
The purpose of this sticky is to explain the "Advanced Search" function because it is much more powerful and is the best choice when researching information.

When you log on to the site a list of options is shown in a line at the top of the page. One option is labelled "Search", use this option (NOT the search box lower down on the right).

After you click on the upper search option, a drop down box appears. At the bottom of this box is a radio button marked "Advanced …

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Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Dan J on Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:32 pm

ALFAPU,

I'm nearly done with my LS conversion - here in Portland, Or. If you ever make your way down here let me know. You are welcome to stop by and have a look - or maybe even a drive if/when it's finally finished.

My car is based on an '88 non-sunroof chassis with an '04 GTO motor (w/Comp cam & valve train).

There are several approaches and many variables/parameters to making the motor fit. Note, the following is only based on my experience and how I've dealt with the challenges. I found that the following parts/components all affect engine placement. The magic is making all of it work together.

- engine mounts & setback plates. Depending on the design you go with, these will give you some range of adjustment in positioning both height and fore/aft. I used the uprights/setback plates and urathane mounts from 944v8.com/Sloan (some of the parts I received before he stopped fulfilling orders and following through on commitments...another story). Those uprights combined with the energy suspension mounts allow adequate up/down adjustment of the motor, but not enough fore/aft adjustment. An additional 1cm or so of aft adjustment would solve several positioning issues that relate to closing the hood...more below.

- transmission mount. There are several versions of transmission solid mounts available through traditional 944 parts shops. I bought a solid trans mount before a conversion-specific part was available. If doing this again, I'd go with the mount that xchop has designed. His version positions the whole motor/transaxle back as far as possible, which allows more clearance at the throttle body.

- headers. I'm using the S&P headers, which are pretty in that they don't look hacked together, they are ceramic coated and have nice v-band clamps. On the downside, they are not inexpensive, they interfere slightly with the crossmember on cyl #4 (I trimmed the crossmember to allow clearance) and touches the steering shaft cyl #5. Also, on the driver's side cylinders S&P left small flanges inside the 2 tubes that are modified, so these tubes are a fraction smaller diameter than the other tubes. Note, by positioning the motor as far back as possible, you eliminate clearance issues noted above...but only just barely.

- oil pan. I'm using a modified Moroso pan. There's a couple issues with it. Clearance with the crossmember steering rack boss (see my gallery) on the passenger side is very tight. I chose to round off the crossmember about 1cm to allow the motor to sit lower. Another issue with the Moroso pan is the positioning of the remote filter in/out lines. Depending on your header choice, the fittings may need to be modified to allow for adequate clearance between your oil lines and the header/collector.

- throttle body. On my car, trimming the nose of the throttle body was necessary in order to close the hood.

- hood. Trimming the hood at the center support rib (also in the gallery) was also necessary. Also, I ended up using hood pins in order to allow for a straight air intake that passes through the area where the latch mechanism sits. I'll go with a fiberglass hood at some point in the future anyway. Cleareance is barely adequate at the throttle body, and again this is a function of not just the height of the motor, but fore/aft location.

-brake MC. this is another factor to plan for. The driver's side cylinder head sits exactly where the stock 944 booster wants to be. There are several approaches to brake setup, people have done a good job on this board of posting descriptions and pictures of what they've done. You might consider options based on whether you are building a track car or street car. Mine is for the track, so I invested in what I hope will be a rock solid setup. Wilwood 1" dual MC with a Wilwood bias adjuster for the rear, big red calipers on the front (Kolken adapters/hats) and 951 rear calipers. The calipers/rotors are the same as my last 964 track car, and they held up great at the track. Eric makes an MC mounting plate and pushrod that allows this setup. xchop has a dual MC mounting plate setup that's pretty tempting as well. I haven't driven my car yet, but in the garage the 1" Willwood MC pedal feel seems good...can't comment on how it really works until I drive the car.

So, you have a lot of variables to put together in order to make the engine fit. Everything listed above will affect clearance. Spacers are an option that many use as well. However, you have to play with all the above mentioned parameters to make it work.

Thankfully, there's a ton of collective experience and many talented people here who are very generous with sharing their time, information, support and enthusiasm.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Arthropraxis on Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:46 pm

The car that the S&P headers were jigged from didn't use crossmember spacers. That is probably why there are clearance issues.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Marky522 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:52 pm

Yeah, Eric is right on. I was just like you, I didnt want to run spacers so i modified my crossmember, basically i cut out the center very similar to how lindsey does there 3 piece cross member, but i replaced the center section with my own 2x2 1/4" piece and dropped it enough that my engine clears and i dont have to modify my oil pan. But this did change the location of my rack so I thought i was going to have to run a bump steer setup, but like always XSChop to the rescue, he posted a pic of a way to fix it That i hadnt thought of that will work great, basically take a piece of thick U channelbolt thorugh the base of the U into the end of the rack where the inner tie rod bolted, thenput the outer in the channel and bolt thought it the other way. I have a pic at work, but it look super easy...

Mark

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:30 am

basically take a piece of thick U channelbolt thorugh the base of the U into the end of the rack where the inner tie rod bolted, thenput the outer in the channel and bolt thought it the other way. I have a pic at work, but it look super easy...

Huh? Shocked
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:35 am

Does anyone have experience with a 5.3 LM4 motor? I know there are slight differences between this and an LSx such as the dipstick hole, intake manifold and accessories; but how do these perform?

I'm thinking that the first hybrid I build will become a semi-daily driver and serve as a test mule to the other two builds I have planned. The price of an LM4 and my conservative goal of 300HP for this car make this motor very tempting. An L33 would be perfect, but they are not as common (or cheap).

I am definitely looking for an aluminum block motor, otherwise I'd just toss the LT1 I built for my truck in the 951 (or one of my 944s or my 931), then pick up a 6.0 for the truck.

Any thoughts or advise?


Thanks,

Alex
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  xschop on Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:09 am

Comp Ratio is ugly gas friendly on the LM4......It's basically these same engine I have swapped in but with aluminum block..... This should clear the air for you.....

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  robstah on Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:56 am

I will be running an LM4 in my 951.

The LM4 is an exact spec as an LM7, but with an aluminum block. That 75-80lbs can make a difference. I was able to find my LM4 for 500 dollars.

You will have to drill out the oil dipstick spot. Apparently GM left that alone and stuck the dipstick tube in the oil pan.

You can increase compression just by changing heads. I haven't fully looked into yet, but all the heads on the LSx motors can be swapped. The only thing to worry about would probably be lift and valve clearance after that. After looking around, there are plenty of people who run A LOT of lift.

300hp is base for these motors. It should be easy to obtain another 40 or so crank hp just with a cam and yet another 40 for head selection. There is a lot of room to do a lot with these.

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  xschop on Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:55 am

Or you can take a $100 excellent shape LM7 block and stick in 4.8 flat-top pistons and bump the CR. I am slowly working on a spare set up for some Z06 heads. Sad thing is these truck motors are so tough it will be awhile before I have to install it anyway.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:14 am

What CR will the 4.8 pistons give you? Which heads will raise the CR and to what?

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:11 pm

...or if anyone knows the volume of the 5.3 combustion chamber and/or the difference in compression height between the 4.8 and 5.3 pistons, I'll be able to figure out the CR of a 5.3 with 4.8 slugs.


Last edited by ALFAPU on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Marky522 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:36 pm

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Theres the pic of what i was talking about.

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:55 pm

Ahhh, now it makes sense.

I'm going to forward this picture to a friend of mine who is a structures engineer for a major aerospace manufacturer to see what he thinks about the design. One if my concerns is that unless there is a way to index the clevis, it may rotate under the bolt head. Another concern is the load on the clevis and the tensile stress applied to the bolt.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Marky522 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:13 pm

Sounds great to me, I would hate for it to fail... I could get around it spinning by making a notch in the end of the rack and having a corrosponding high point on my bracket. The strength issues would be great to know. I planned on enclosing mine alot more than this one is for strength.

Mark

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  xschop on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:06 am

The power rack already has a notch at 11 O'clock on both ends. Machine a notch to match and it will not rotate. But hold your horses. I found ANOTHER way to get the same result easier and not loose the 1" stroke on each end as the ball joint inserts into the rack at full turn each way. I am trying to search inner tie-rods that are super short and machine drop-blocks and place them right after the rubber accordian boots. They would stay put with locknuts on each end. No FEA BS needed...LOL
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  ALFAPU on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:23 am

With an LM4 motor, do I use the Envoy/Trailblazer or the Corvette/Camaro PCM? When I swap the LSx manifold, do I need the LSx engine harness?

I'm planning to go DBW, I'm not afraid of wiring/fabrication.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  xschop on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:34 am

Use the brain from the motor you get. I used the LM7 PCM that I got off Ebay for $29. My "Nailed It" thread shows you how to use the 5.3 injectors on the LS1 intake even, just make sure that the Multec2 fuel injector pigtails are on your harness. SSP re-sent the Multec2's at no extra cost.

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Wild Bill on Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:16 pm

Mine is just a SBC with a LT1 intake however for more throttle body clearance I just angle milled the throttle body face and welded up the top of the throttle body opening on the intake, ported out the bottom of the intake and re-drilled and tapped the mounting bolt holes. LOTS of clearance. Just wondering if an angled adapter or similar thing can be done on the LS?
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  Admin on Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:28 pm

On the LS intake , it's made of plastic , not sure what kind, and it has nut inserts. So I think milling and re threading is out. Although I have made a wedge piece to angle the throttle body down some on the last car I converted.
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  docwyte on Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:27 pm

I have a feeling I'll be whipping out the dremel to enlarge the hole so the k&n tube can fit...

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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

Post  UK952 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:29 pm

Haven't spotted a dumb question yet - lots I hadn't thought to ask though!
Thanks,
Tony
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Re: Warning: New guy with lots of dumb questions. Open at your own risk!

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